Twinky

Froggy, you did a bad thing with that link. That song/tune has been floating itself around in my head all day. Been so long since I heard it, I wouldn't have thought I'd've recognized it.

The poison word...great phrase. Looks like every collegiate body cult has its poison words....that describe little but serve greatly to differentiate and divide opinion. (Doncha just love it when you get your quote marks wrong and have to edit?)

Floyd!!!!

It's all "us and them" culture. We're in the front line. Everyone else is the enemy's front line. Certainly we were taught to look on every negative thing that was said against TWI as being an attack of the adversary. Including everything that pointed out the holes in TWI dogma. When you come to think you are on the front line of anything... you've really lost sight of the "service element" of serving fellow human beings in (Christian) love.

No disputing man's inhumanity to (wo)man.

Maybe say...I was just looking on this website [the Cafe] and there's some stuff about your organization...could you explain it please? And put the rottie by the door so's they couldn't leave (LOL).

Comes with lifetime guarantee...is that for the person to whose belt it's attached? what a monster!

Spanish Inquisition? (and yes, Wordie, I did expect you to mention that). I thought that was headed up by a guy named L1nder? I notice you don't mention the Salem witch trials but only European ones.

Invite 'em in. Give 'em a cup of coffee. Express an interest in what they had to say. And ask the hard questions. But it ain't gonna happen, where I am. All are turned aside and doing their own thing. God bless 'em.

6 cities? 14 of these kids? Are they sending them out in pairs now, then, rather than "families" of 4-6? I wish the disciples well in all that they as individuals could learn. And the best they can have is that the eyes of their understanding are opened very wide to see the unChristianness of the organization they are promoting.

Them as wants to, can conduct their own research into ancient means of determining right and wrong. European law is based on Roman law; English & Welsh law is different; Scottish law is different agan. Standards have varied through the ages. Not really what this thread is about. There seems to be a resurgence of people claiming to be "white witches" and interest in "spells" and "magic". Not sure whether this is the desire to be "different" or a genuine seeking after the spiritual side of life. But then: some people are just plain wacky. And some are mocking. Some recent census forms (including the one that we are to complete in 2011) include under their Religion section: Jedi. Census Jedi The census people leave in because it does get some people to complete the census forms. Of course, what it says for the quality of their responses to other questions is debatable.

Why, it's their "abundant sharing" at work, of course.

Very sad people who so completely misunderstand their God. A different group, but same tactic: Wwatched a doco on TV last night (rare for me, I don't have a TV) about the "Church of Scientology." A couple of escapees were talking about the tactics used by that organization. Went further than the clip Hap posted; the Scientologists had gorgeous surroundings - in fact, a beautiful prison camp. Everything was video'd and used against them. Smear tactics, and extreme M&A tactics too. Control by fear and intimidation. That's all these groups have. So different from freewill submission. Can't help but wonder what the poor little kids on Hap's video are going to turn into in a couple of decades, if they don't see what their oldest sibling saw.

A link in case anyonoe's interested. "Official druid website" Good swipe at Christians part way down. Link to OBOD near the bottom which takes you to another website where ultimately you can learn about the seven gifts of druidism. And some of it looks like "cult language." Their special way of putting things.

A fundie pagan/witch group??? Sounds like crossed broomsticks at dawn! Don't know about witchcraft law repeal, I'll check it out. I do think that a lot of people (almost always women) were just folk with a knowledge of herbs and their healing properties. Medieval magic - gosh, you healed someone with those herbs, must be magic, let's dunk you till you drown (big pharma at work even then!). No idea what druids are supposed to be. A lot of strange people do odd things at Stonehenge and like places at certain times of the year like midsummer and solstice. I doubt there is anything at all historic in what they do. Modern fantasies and rituals to be a bit different, I think.

News article This might appeal to some people here. Bramble, perhaps? Most people think that this would be just another bonkers lot that prance around at Stonehenge. The Charity Commission clearly thinks otherwise, though apparently the CC took some convincing. A long way from mainstream...just thinking of another current thread on cults. News item just on the radio. "First pagan religion to be recognized in this way."

Heh heh, funny, Groucho. Never thought I'd agree with you on anything.

Sunesis - I do enjoy your posts. Always something to think about.

From Cheranne's link: I would have thought the first question to ask is: "Do they love God?"Quickly followed by: "Do they love their fellow human beings?" (Matt 22, Mark 12, Luke 10) And then the next thing to ask is: "Do they confess with their mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in their heart that God hath raised him from the dead? " Three yeses and you might be onto something. If they don't do these things - run, do not walk, away from this organization. Or website, as the case may be. What the heck is the Chjristian orthodox historical concept of anything?

On the thread "How Close were we to the JWs?" on page 3 there's a number of interesting posts, including a couple from Socks (but not just his posts) that got me thinking. We all did that witnessing thing, door-knocking, accosting people in shopping malls, and whatever, proclaiming our brand of "the Truth". Of whatever of those beliefs you once subscribed to (or at least spouted off), what do you adhere to and yet don't talk about? Why not? For instance: I can't think of a time I ever believed Jesus=God. Even though that's what the church I was raised in taught. It wasn't till I got to TWI that I realized people actually did believe that. And they do! They are astounded that I don't believe this and look at me like I've sprouted horns and a tail. Good friends of mine want to pray for me to see the light about this heretical belief. I go to a mainstream church now. They believe Jesus=God. Because of that, I think some aspects of their theology are so rubbish that I have to re-sort it in my head whilst listening to the sermon or whatever. But generally, there is enough there that it leads me forwards not backwards. But do I raise the status (?) of Jesus with other members of the congregation? No! Or its leadership? Doubly no! Why not? Possibly partly because of a fear (?) that I will be banned, ostracized, persona non grata, again (being M&A'd from TWI was a hell time for me; I lost everything). And possibly because they're as committed to their beliefs as I am to mine. And because I believe God looks on the heart and these people's hearts are to love God. Every denomination, organization, makes some mistakes. We're all wrong in something. And to raise this - causes division. Makes an issue where there should be unity of heart. Better to concentrate on what we have in common, than in petty differences. If anybody in a Christian context were to ask, though, I'd stand my ground. I'm just not willing to make an issue of it. And certainly, for non-Christians, it's not an issue and they're willing to accept "one God" for more readily than "one trinity of Gods". What've you hung onto, that distinguishes you from mainstream churches? Have you gone back to your old beliefs, adopted some new ones, just don't care any more (some of you don't). Do you, in fact, try to win anyone for Christ/God/your current deity - in whatever form?

Oops, OldSkool. You've been there, done that, got the scars. Try (some easy task like that (LOL)) and get your friend to read the Bible more widely. At least you have a shot at understanding her mindset. And know walking away isn't the end of the world. (Walks away shaking her head sadly and laughing under her breath)

Good bump, OldSkool. Scary how Noni's recollections mirror a lot of TWI recollections. How people do love to mess around with others' heads. If we remembered it was: "Love God, love your fellow man" and forgot about meaningless rituals, we'd all be a lot happier.

I have a few books now: "A Lion Handbook of the World's Religions" - various contributors "The World's Religions" by Ninian Smart and some others that I haven't looked at yet: "A Handbook of Living Religions" by John Hinnells "The Hutchinson Encyclopedia of Living Faiths" ed by RC Zaehner "An Idiot's Guide to Islam" (in the usual Idiot's Guide series) FWIW, I've worked with a number of Muslim colleagues, all of whom have been very nice people and we've had interesting discussions. The terrorists that perform hideous acts in the name of Allah are no more representative of their alleged faith than terrorist bombers in any other pretend religious community (eg, in Ireland) (or dare I say it...Israelis). I've also met some great folks confessing Judaism as their religion.

I knew something of Anglican beliefs before TWI. Nothing about other Protestant sets of beliefs. Nothing about Eastern religions. Enough to think badly of Catholicism. I know a bit more about Eastern beliefs now, having come into contact with people from other lands (there were no non-white Brits where I lived). I didn't think the people from the church I attended "lived" the gospel and walked out when I was around 13 years of age. The longing to know was still there, though, and periodically I wandered into various churches but wasn't impressed. Then I met a WoW and was impressed by what he knew of the Bible. Someone actually knew what it said, and meant! Hare Krishna was around at the time; what a bunch of weirdos. Other churches seemed to be in crisis. I wanted to know. I was a sucker for TWI. Not at all keen on The Class and had to be dragged to it. Liked the teaching (PFAL) and excused the weirder bits and inconsistencies. At last there was some positive teaching, not wishy washy! Some of the people seemed ignorant of practically everything else about life, they were happy and relaxed with God and trusted him completely. And seemed to be doing well. So I excused them as well. People simply don't have time to browse every religion or set of beliefs about anything, and become expert in each, knowing all the intricacies, before making a choice...maybe a choice by default. I'd support teaching a little about major religions but knowing how much variation and inaccuracy there can be just on Christianity, how much confidence could there be in learning a little of other major religions? Would the local rabbi or imam or confuscian or buddhist be able to give an unbiased decription of the main tenets of that religion? In cities here where there is a high immigrant population, festivals are celebrated like Diwali and schoolkids are taught a little information at really basic level.

Nicotine patches are supposed to work really well. Available (in various strengths) at pharmacies. Might be a good alternative. In the UK the NHS (National Health Service) runs "Stop Smoking" clinics in which a group of people wanting to give up meet regularly (a bit like Alcs Anon??) and the clinics have been found to be very successful because of the support offered. Anything like that near you?