Twinky

Greek2me, thanks for posting that article. Very interesting. Doesn't (in this article) talk about the "renewed mind" as being "the promised land" - perhaps later articles do? - but I do like the way it picks up lots of threads of the new life in Christ. And it's clear it's not a TWI document because of the terminology (like "Holy Ghost"). Who is the author of this, please? Creds? Can you post a link to the other teachings in the series?

Interesting, if the person had Googled TWI they would end up here. I wonder what s/he will think about the responses? Nothing favorable there.

Centralization of power has good Biblical precedent. Follow the wanderings of the Ark of the Covenant. The Ark had become a sort of (dangerous) trophy but it stayed in tents (tabernacles) at various locations. Then David installs in in Jerusalem. And, as King, accretes power to himself. After all, he has the Word of God captive, doesn't he? People had since early Israelite historybeen required to present themselves to the Lord for the Passover (Easter), Feast of Weeks (Pentecost), and Tabernacles (in Fall) - "Three times in a year shall all thy males appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose" (Ex 23 (twice) and Deut 16). Note: location unspecified. But David began to accrete power and make Jerusalem his HQ. David's successor, Solomon, David's son, decided that that place was of his (Solomon's) choosing - in Jerusalem (2 Chron 8). And after that, Zion, sorry, New Knoxville, sorry, Jerusalem, became the centralized place of worship, where lived the Teacher and High Priest, and whence flowed all directives and commandments. And so, you see, there is strong Biblical precedent for the leader to take an easy and very bearable commandment of God, lay other further requirements on the people, and then for his successor to continue to add to the requirements. All in God's name, of course. In fact, you'll even see "time management" and control in existence, with David attempting to control Uriah's time ("you will visit your wife now!"). Clearly, it was Uriah's failure to adhere to God-given revelation to David to change his, Uriah's, schedule that got Uriah killed. (Can you see my tongue in cheek?)

It shocked me when I first got thrown out how nice people were. Clearly, this was a trick of the devil to try and knock me even further off course. Their kindness and soft words were just a lure. I was very very suspicious of soft-spoken, reasonable, helpful people. Even now, I have found occasionally that with people who "matter" in some way, and in particular, a close friend (very kind) - some things they say to me can sometimes make me freeze, send chills up my spine, provoke an unreasonably strong or frightened reaction from me. Less so now in the work situation, which is very supportive. I'm wary of church leaders that I don't know well. But never (thankfully) is it a problem at church, where sometimes I deliberately turn up late - because I can! - and nobody says anything but "Welcome!" and means it. Hope your daughter sorts out her problems, 100%, and that this is a lesson in life that she's able to learn in an encouraging and supportive environment. Sounds like a lesson you're learning, too.

Slightly Went to a meeting last night. There is a "pastor" from a church in a nearby town. He was referring to a verse at the end of Hebrews about "submitting" to those who have leadership over you, because they watch for your souls as they that must give account." He breaks that into two words - sub/mission. If you agree, you are not "submitting" because you are not putting your own plan into effect, you're agreeing that the pastor's plan is correct. You "submit" when you deem your own "mission" of lower value to that of the pastor's. My b-$h1t-ometer was going BEEP BEEP BEEP in a loud manner. What about submitting ourselves one to another? What about the greatest servant being the greatest leader? Where's the "loving" submission part? Runs a bit counter to 1 Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. I don't doubt that we need "leaders" but they lead by example, not by accreting people to their fellowships, churches, or what-have-you. And the example they set is one of believing God and acting on His word. The leadership training that we should have received should have been of people showing us by example how to act in any situation. Kinda like this: Micah 6:8 KJV He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? (well worth re-reading this chapter) Actually, we did receive great leadership training. In what "it is not."

Here y'are Bowtwi. Hey, Jeffsjo's a Friend there. The Way International - cult Think it could do with a link to the Cafe on its Wall. Wonder how long before that organization tries to make Facebook take it down?

The company that owned this mine had been in financial difficulties in the few years preceding this disaster. The mind had been closed for a period (I think) because they had no money. It's possible that they were cutting corners when it came to safety, which is why the rockfalls occurred - inadequate shoring up or whatever. The rescue has been paid for mostly by the Chilean government (not the mine owning company). No doubt there will be lots of legal wrangling as working out who has to pay for what costs is sorted out. But yesterday was not the day for that. Some of the men have already been released from hospital after thorough checks. The shift leader, who kept it all together, needs formally recognizing with an award, a medal. It could so easily have been a different story without his strong leadership. Mining communities do have a very strong "hang together" sense. There is very little coalmining left in the UK but the north of England was at one time a huge coalmining area. You're right, Linda. Not an easy life. And one with longterm health consequences from all the dust.

From the online blog linked earlier. 04.37 It's over! The last rescue worker, believed to be Manuel Gonzales, is safely out of the mine and back on the surface. He is greeted by jubilant cheers and a final round of "Chi Chi Chi, Le Le Le!". Laughing, he greets the president and his colleagues before delivering the message: "Let this never happen again." His return marks the end of the remarkably successful Operation San Lorenzo. All 33 miners safe. Chile breathes a big sigh of relief, and the party begins... 04.21 He's in the capsule and he's off. The final departure from the bottom of the San Jose mine. 04.20 The rescuer is being cheered as he waves to the mine camera and gives a bow. 04.19 Here we go, the Phoenix 2 has landed at the mine floor for the last time. The last rescuer must get himself into the capsule without any help. It's not clear what will happen to the equipment and supplies left underground by the miners. Will anyone will be game to go down to get them? And a wild party was had by all. Such joy and rejoicing! Anyone who has lived in a community that has a main focus will know how much a disaster affects one and all whether or not they have someone directly involved and mining towns are very tightly focused and community-knit).

Oh brilliant! All the miners are out now - about 22.5 hours. Much less than expected. It's a wonderfully emotional and joyful occasion. No doubt there will be fault-finding and blame later on - but now is not the time. There are still several men down in the mine, rescuers, who themselves need to be retrieved. Well done all!!

Still ongoing. The 29th has just emerged. The Minister of Mines is doing a great job. He welcomes each family representative and has this huge smile that seems so very personal, always has a jolly word to say. It doesn't hurt that he's a good-looking guy. The Prime Minister and his wife are also there. Hugs and beams to everyone. Great kudos for the PM and Mines Minster. The PM was warned to stay out of it, in case it all went wrong. But he insisted on doing what could be done for the miners. There is genuine joy at this pit head. You can feel it, even across the internet.

Recently appeared was one whose wife discovered he was having an affair when the mistress was also at the pit head. Oops! And what's more, he was greeted out of the capsule by - the mistress - described by Chile TV as his "esposa" (fiancee). There were big hugs from two young women (his daughters?) but another older woman (his wife?) was nowhere to be seen. This man may end up wishing he was still down the mine. Or maybe his wife will send him back down there again. Complete with "esposa."

Now appears Dario Segovia - no.20 - only 1/2 hour, definitely getting faster. And he gives his wife - edit, his sister - the biggest hug you have ever seen.

And here is the next man out. This operation is sooooo slick. Everything about how they deal with the families, the media, the photography. Getting quicker on th extractions, too. You'd think they have been doing all this for years. Thank God they haven't.

And here is Esteban Rojas, who proposed to his girlfriend of 25 yrs whilst buried in the mine. Nothing like a crisis to focus one's attention! He springs out of the capsule, kneels on the ground straight away - brushing aside his rescuers - prays and gives thanks. Only then does he leap to his feet to greet and hug his fiancee, the Minister for Mines, his rescuers and everyone else at the pit head.

Omas Reygadas (no 17) has just emerged, clutching his Bible. Joyous sounds all round. Hugged his adult son and daughter, then sank to his knees and raised his hands and waved his Bible in joyful thanks and praise.

15:37 Alfredo Cooper, the Chilean president's Protestant chaplain, described today's events as "a miracle", definitively so, as a drill bit had been deflected from its original route when it found the miners' refuge. :) :) :) Love the way so many of the miners prayed, crossed themselves, or otherwise gave thanks to God - both before and after being lifted out.

The Corps program was all about "the greatest leader is the greatest servant." All the time in Dishroom, cleaning out chicken pens, scrubbing toilets and such like was teaching us to be good servants. Therefore we could be better leaders. For some people doing such things might wel have been a real shock. However, most of us know how to do these things though not at industrial levels. We had to learn to follow directions (orders) before we could learn to give directions (orders). As it happens, most of us never learned enough to get to that stage. Only how to compel others to "follow" by the same oppressive measures.

Awesome, those miners who have been trapped underground for 69 days are now in process of being extracted; the tenth (as I write this) has just emerged. It's a joyful occasion. Originally it had been thought that it may not happen until after Christmas. The shift leader has shown great leadership and has kept the men in good condition. Dunno what training he had received, or whether it was "common sense" but he has done much to ensure the safety of all, including, right from the beginning, rationing the food that was available. Perhaps he has also led the discussions between the men, that they will all share the profits from selling their stories. I think this is the same man who's said, yes, he does want to carry on mining. I watched video footage of the first extraction. Now it may be partially to do with genetics, that he's not a naturally hairy man - but that man was clean shaven! He'd done himself up as best as possible (think: Joseph presenting himself to Pharaoh). Here this man presents himself to the world - and he's showing great, positive, Chilean spirit. Several of the others sport facial hair, some quite bushy beards, others neat partial beards and moustaches. Here's a link, updated every 90 seconds, but things might have moved on so tomorrow this link might not work. Live link to Mining Rescue :) <<even has miner's sunglasses on Well done all! (13 up now!!)

I started a topic in Doctrinal about a specific aspect of symbolism. Crossing the Jordan

Waysider's thread in ATW about Symbolism got me thinking of this... Lots of LCM's teachings were based on symbolism. I'm particularly thinking of Joshua crossing the Jordan as being symbolic of Jesus leading us into the renewed mind" and the children of Israel clearing out the Promised Land as symbolic of us cleaning out our old ways of thinking and putting on the renewed mind. They didn't clear out all the previous occupants and got drawn into the ways of former inhabitants. We clear out old ways of thinking so we don't get drawn back. I've never heard this taught anywhere else, though I doubt LCM thought of it himself. I find it a helpful analogy. I wonder if others do, too? Is it accurate? And I wonder where he poached it from.

My Corps Coord definitely taught us to "think in pictures" - as aids to remembering things. No doubt some of you will remember 1-hen 2-shoe 3-tree with "the object you want to remember" on the hen, shoe, tree or whatever. The Bible is full of imagery. Symbolism. Everything in the Tabernacle was symbolic of something to come. Jesus was following a long-established method of teaching. It still works as a method of teaching today - relate something to the person you're trying to teach. Use of symbols, parables, etc is not "private interpretation." What is private interpretation is pseudo interpretations of Greek and Hebrew words, and then hanging a whole theology on them.

Oh Froggy, as if Floyd wasn't enough, now you're doing it with Crimson.

Okay, who's going to "shop" them? Bet they manage to do just enough to keep it "legit". After all, don't they compel people to go to "fellowshop" or some teaching series whilst on grounds?

Maybe you can also check out what the requirements are in Indiana. When I was in rez, the "training" was notionally run from the Way Coll of Indiana (again, not Ohio) - something to do with not being able to get accreditation in OH. Never occurred to me that the reason we sat through all those classes that we'd already done ??? number of times was simply to keep some sort of property tax exemption.

Nonetheless, LCM as the veritable leader, is standing in the gap in his tights, and beats off all the wicked devil spirits.