Twinky

Thanks, Bowtwi. I always look out for your posts, too. Your outreach thing sounds great! Just the thing. Sad in a way - that people who have been hurt by the church are so prevalent. But excellent that they still want to hang out. You'll do so well, helping them. Helping them see that their church that hurt them, and God, are not at all the same. You may end up sharing your story a lot. And it's nice that you can offer people churches to suit where they're at now. There are so many different ways to enjoy "church" and to stick to one rigid style simply keeps God crammed in a box and prevents him, or perhaps his people, being enjoyed in every variety. The church I go to has a surprising number of people in it who have been hurt elsewhere, or come from bitter church splits. The vicar has always been very careful how he says things. It's been healing for me. I like my church but lately it hasn't seemed to meet my needs, or where I'm at. I've started to go to an evening service at a different location. Such a different feel. Yet it's just what I need at the moment. And it's okay to do that!

Thank you both. Don't know whether to laugh or cry or what I feel. Like when you've done a long task at work that seems never to come to an end...and then it does. Or when you've run a race or finished a long strenuous walk...and suddenly it's done. And you wonder what all the huff was about. At least I don't have to bang my head against the wall any more or soak my couch with tears of frustration. There might be a bit of this, this weekend: I have a bottle of very nice red wine to celebrate the occasion. Been there a couple of years waiting for this.

I reckon any half-way thoughtful cig company would be into alternatives, knowing that there's now a lot of public pressure against smokers. Dunno what it's like in the USA, but you can't smoke in the UK in your place of work (even if that's only a work vehicle that only you use), not in a pub or club or any kind of enclosed public space. If you ain't got it yet in your State, it's a-coming. So what's a self-respecting cig co going to do? Flog its wares to third-world countries - India, Africa, Indonesia, who cares, they're too far away - not in our back yard - and out from the stoop of your nice American homestead they'll flog you a substitute. I wonder how many cig companies also have shareholdings in pharma companies - especially those selling anti-cancer drugs. Anyway Purple Days, all the best with your smoking reduction plan.

Friends, just gotta share some good news. I got laid off from my job in March 2008. Since then, I've survived on state aid, the bulk of which is just about to come to an end. It's been stressful and there is barely enough to live on as it is. And today, after hundreds of job applications and a significant number of interviews - I've finally got a job offer. I could start tomorrow but have chosen to start on 6 Dec. Before then, I will spring-clean my house, and do some other odd jobs I haven't been able to find the energy for. This is no stunner of a job. It doesn't pay tremendously well. It's way below the level of what I am capable of. It's something I can do well, very well, but not I'd prefer to do. In fact, it's a line of work I walked away from in my youth, before I did my degree and professional training. But I will do my new job with joy and rejoicing. Heartily as unto the Lord. With thankfulness and enthusiasm. I believe God to put me in a place where I can make an impact for Him - so it's exciting to see what he might have in store. Beside the salary, of course!

Bowtwi, I'm so pleased for you. You have so very much to contribute, to share, to teach in such a loving way. You're going to be a real blessing and (dare I say it) safe pair of hands in that church. You may find your ministry really opens some new doors to a whole different group of people. God bless you.

Chockfull, yes, it can be a verse used to "cover up" but that's not the way God intended it; it's the way it was misused by TWI. TWI never wanted us to call anything as it was. God is not shy at calling things as they are and decries those who "wink at evil." We are to "speak the truth in love" (Eph 4:15) - and part of speaking the truth is to speak up (nicely) when people are behaving badly. We are to speak up against those who "by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness ... lie in wait to deceive" (Eph 4:14). In other words, there's an expectation that unacceptable behavior will be confronted. Who can speak up is not limited. Especially, not limited to leadership! If we are to speak the truth and decry deceit, etc, or any kind of wrongdoing, that does involve thinking about that behavior, why it is wrong, and how to deal with whatever situation is ongoing. It was right to confront leadership where their behavior was so outrageous. In fact, not doing so is wrong. This fine verse, Phil 4:8, does not bestow an invisibility cloak!! However, looking to find evil is not to be our lifestyle. Not our habit. There are better thoughts to occupy our head space on a regular basis. Phil 4:8 is set in the context of rejoicing, and living moderately. The verses immediately before and immediately afterwards talk of living in peace. The structure is: help each other / rejoice / live moderately / peace / finally, my brethren ... think on these things / peace / rejoice./ lack of want & living within means. That's God's will for our lives - what he wants, how to get it (and, if you like, what to do with it when you've got it!). A peaceful life. There's no space for bearing grudges or harboring unforgiveness. Just not compatible. Very interesting, when one takes verses out of context...and never puts them back but learns to quote them out of context...and what a different emphasis they have when one does put them back into their proper context.

On the other side of the pond, I heard the announcement of the assassination - probably some hours later. I was young, but out on my own. I remember where I was and what I was about to do, at the time. Maybe it was sombre music. Maybe it was announcers' voices. I didn't know what it meant, or even who JFK was really, but I knew it was something really serious. The news coverage went on incessantly.

Hi Rachel, haven't seen you in ages. Have to agree with you, BSG WTF. Teachmevp can sometimes be just a little difficult to follow in his posts.

Lots of things are wrong in God's eyes. Lust, greed, envy, adultery. Splitting up marriages. Abusing children. Pride, arrogance, lording it over God's people - over anybody. Bullying and taking advantage. Bribes. Or just plain not honoring and loving God with all your heart. Let him that is without sin cast the first stone. My life isn't perfect either. You wouldn't have to look too deeply to see the bits that are less than what God would like to see. But I do my best. I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather people found a secure and loving relationship that helped them reach their maximum potential as human beings - than condemn them. There is more to a person than their sexuality. Doesn't mean I like what they do. It does mean that I can view them with compassion and be pleased that they can love and be loved.. As, in the same way, I endeavor to have compassion on those who fall short in other ways...and that's sometimes harder. I do not forget that flagrant homosexuals were kinder to me than my so-called "Christian" brethren when I was M&A'd. If I were God (ha ha), I know which ones I'd be angrier at. Thanks for posting the words of this wise rabbi, Abigail.

Welcome, LoveOneAnother. This is your first post, so - Welcome to the Cafe. You don't need to be afraid to speak up here. And you can pose any question you like and let your thoughts wander where they will. Would you care to expand your question a little? Which part of your question is important to you? Is it rhetorical ("how do you know")? Or a discussion of "the all truth"? Or something else, perhaps?

Great preaching/teaching, Bowtwi. How some love to harbor grudges (unforgiveness). What a waste of time and effort. Let it go, and travel light. Philippians 4:8 American Standard Version Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honorable, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. If you do, you won't have time to bear grudges or be unforgiving.

Bowtwi, that's wonderful, awesome.. God knew what he was doing when he prompted you to move to that town. You thought you were doing this - but his plan was something else!!! The church sounds tremendous and very healing. What a lovely man the pastor sounds like. Many of the congregation wouldn't comprehend what you went through, but so what, they just lived what they know to live. Knowing, really knowing, the love of God - is what has truly set you free. Go and grow, girl!! Thanks for sharing this.

Hey, just joking around, WG, no offence meant. It's a far cry from Florida sunshine. In Ohio, I found myself on Snow Clearance. Not so much fun at 5am when dragged out of a warm Founders Hall bed. Was there a big Snow Clearance crew at Gunnison, first thing in the morning (5am) - or did that wait till a bit later in the day (after breakfast)? What happened to the hosses and such?

I was going to suggest watching these with the sound turned off, brainfixed. You've beaten me to it. Rest of you, see if you can guess what they're singing about. Socks, I like Hillsong too. Catchy songs, passionately written, sung and performed. I also like Sons of Korah, who set the psalms to modern music. Here's and Psalm 125. They do some good guitar/stringed instrument work. If you like the link, try YouTube - there's stacks of their music w/videos. Do these guys look like they're having fun? :) :) Does the audience seem enthusiastic? I find these catchy tunes stick in my head (and the words, too). I'm glad to say that a lot of Way Prods songs have...evaporated. I did rather like some of those great songs that got banned after one of the exoduses. Some of those songs I still remember.

WG, you have no sense of fun. You don't like snowmen, snowballs, skiing? Where were they doing the skiing anyway? On that hill that's covered by sage brush, behind the camp? I remember standing out first thing in the morning on the top of the steps of one of those two storey log cabins - looking out over the length of the camp to some snow capped mountains on the horizon, and thinking, this is bliss. For some reason, there were hardly any other WC there - younger Corps arrived a couple of days later. But for a while - it was my private bliss. It was release from my prison of HQ. Sorry you didn't like your time there, OS, and that you found it like a prison.

That was, I think, from an "open concert" to which locals were invited. If they were hoping to win people by the brilliance of the performances, they'd probably have been rather disappointed. They'd most likely have left thinking, what was that? Loosen up! WG, you could explore their website direct...heh heh.

I posted something else too. Gunnison really does look superb. I never saw it in winter, only in spring for Family Camps. It was lovely then, too. I enjoyed my stay there, even though it was very busy and hard (fun) work. Lotsa happy memories.

Here are two songs from the TWI Fall Concert 2009. What you might notice is the absolutely rigidity of the singers' bodies. No hand movements, no swaying to the side - absolutely perfectly still. Their physical demeanor is so at odds with the jolly bouciness of the songs. As also is the jolly bounciness of whoever is conducting the singers. Perhaps the singers are so still so as not to distract from his "dancing." It struck me that it must be very hard - and joyless - to stay so very still - whilst maintaining a big smile on the face. Rejoice This is our Joy And it also struck me that this is Biblical rejoicing: And Michal was struck with barrenness, because she despised those who wholeheartedly rejoiced in God. Perhaps there's a lesson there. TWI, loosen up! Allow people to enjoy rejoicing!!! Don't choreograph so rigidly, either in making everyone stand still, or to "dance" in a very structured way. How long before TWI insists this link gets removed?

Thought some of you might enjoy this. Lovely location. This looks like fun - if a lot of work for Snow Patrol.

Broken Arrow, I find that a very entertaining thought.

Debt...what they say we "not members" owe them. Well, we owe God, but as he has no hands but our hands ... we can jolly well hand over the money to TWI. But what about their debt to us? We "owe" them money because of the "increase" we have acquired. As TWI might have it - we have that increase because of the Word they've taught us. I'm wondering if we paid in advance. Aren't they in debt to us? Isn't it about time TWI started teaching some honest "Word"? Then, maybe, everyone would benefit.

I think back on the time I was in. And the "lost years" - the time after I'd been kicked out and was in deep depression and incapable of sustaining anything. Incapable of returning to my pre-TWI career, making any decision or anything. The burden of guilt laid on me in TWI-2 was vile. I've missed out in marriage, in opportunities to bear children, financially, professionally. I was ... quite a nice person before. I became difficult; and after getting tossed out like a used diaper, became even more difficult to be around. Meltdown. Now I think of what I have gained. A deeper understanding of reaching out to others; of being compassionate, non-judgmental, of seeing the other side, and of a richer relationship with God, who has always been there for me, even when I was at my utmost lowest - a state of mind I would not wish on the person I hated most. I think I've been into parts of my mind that I wouldn't have ventured into before. And I think I'm a better, nicer, more caring person than I was before. TWI is, without doubt, a cost. But having paid the price (and we all have!) what to do with what you got? Make something positive out of it. !!! If nothing else - it shows you how NOT to live life; what to be wary of; how easily you could become like that bully in TWI. It gives you something to fight against and something to fight for. And I stilll say: some of the most awesomely wonderful people I've ever met have been ex-Way people, because of their genuine passion for the things of God and their efforts to live life in a Godly way.

Kicked themselves out?? That fits really well with "mark and avoid."

Beep beep beep! Escape, avoid, get away. Warning warning warning!!! This is what's a snare, a debt. In God's eyes, anyway. Puts someone at enormous risk - because the surety has no control over the actions of the person he is surety for - and whether the assured will fulfil his obligations. However, to take out a like debt in one's own name - leaves one with control and the responsibility to fulfil one's obligations. Of course, TWI could fudge this one by saying - it's not a debt for a "friend" but for a relative, and different things come into play. Ah no. No, no!! Alternatively, in TWI-think, maybe this could be extended - to cover not being surety for anyone at all. That'd be more TWI's style. Going further than the written words. But note this: See? We're not to be guarantors, or sureties. So all those leaders who got people (even family) to guarantee loans were inciting others to go against God's plan. It's so shirking of personal responsibility - to shove the real burden, the risk, of a debt off onto someone else. Who would do that to someone they loved? Especially if it might put the surety's own home at risk!! And don't think these debts aren't called in - nor that the assured always meets the payments. Too often, the beneficiary (the assured one) does default. And the guarantor faces serious problems. It happens.

Famous last words, perhaps? (I did wonder if this should be in Just Plain Silly)