Twinky

Middle English (ie, between Chaucer and Shakespeare) gives a definition relating to the meaning of "mass" as intricately linked to "feast days" in the church. Somewhat later than Middle English, the word "mass" came to mean an amorphous lump of material (including food - like dough, or stew - the "mess of pottage") - then came "mass" meaning a lot of people came into use. This meaning had more recently been acquired - but was in use by 1604 - and had been acquired by the time the KJV was prepared. In other words, "Christ-mass" is a meal to celebrate Christ. And at what other time of year do we eat so much, as at Christmas? It's really a Christian overlay on a very much more ancient pagan aor animist traditions to do with Yule logs, trees, and fertility. Probably with other overlays of Greek and Roman pre-Christian fertility rites and orgies - Bacchanalia and all that. Gotta keep yourself warm on cold winter nights somehow!

D'ya mean I can open a new FB account for "Twinky" separate from my account in my real name? But that if I do so, FB will figure out who is in my real-name address book or FB account, and suggest those people as friends for Twinky?

I never heard even the dim LCM say anything about "mass"acre. I believe it may come from the old English (and before that, probably old German or Norse or some such) "mass" or "mess" meaning meal. As in a mess (dining or common room) in military terms. A "mass" in religious terms is where the eucharistic tokens of bread/wafer and wine are taken, symbolising a "meal" and most commonly seen in "communion" services of Protestant churches and still called "mass" by RCs. Over time, the name for the type of service associated with the "meal" service has become the name for the type of service itself regardless of whether "mess" or "meal" is taken. But anyway... Happy Christmas, and a bright New Year to all. Have an enjoyable holiday break (if working) and may 2011 bring you an increase in personal satisfaction with life, in whatever form that takes for you.

It doesn't really matter to me which tribe - or how many angels, Waysider. I'm just a bit surprised that having announced that we (yes, we) are the real Israel, as well as being the Body of Christ, the true church / called out, the faithful remnant -- our beloved leaders didn't seek to further categorize us as some other type of believer / Israel. And having condemned millions of faithful, compassionate, loving and giving Christians practicing mainstream Christianity, surprising our beloved leaders didn't seek to categorize them as unstable, or cruel, or lazy (Issachar), or judgmental backbiters (Dan) - but that might mean having to give a word of praise, too. Obviously, and I mean this completely (in)sincerely, folks, TWI would be Joseph. Genesis 49: 3 Reuben, thou art my firstborn, my might, and the beginning of my strength, the excellency of dignity, and the excellency of power: 4 Unstable as water, thou shalt not excel ; because thou wentest up to thy father's bed; then defiledst thou it: he went up to my couch. 5 Simeon and Levi are brethren; instruments of cruelty are in their habitations. 6 O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united : for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall. 7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce; and their wrath, for it was cruel : I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel. 8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise : thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies ; thy father's children shall bow down before thee. 9 Judah is a lion's whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up : he stooped down , he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up ? 10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come ; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be. 11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his foot's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: 12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk. 13 Zebulun shall dwell at the haven of the sea; and he shall be for an haven of ships; and his border shall be unto Zidon. 14 Issachar is a strong foot couching down between two burdens: 15 And he saw that rest was good, and the land that it was pleasant ; and bowed his shoulder to bear , and became a servant unto tribute. 16 Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. 17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. 18 I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD. 19 Gad, a troop shall overcome him: but he shall overcome at the last. 20 Out of Asher his bread shall be fat, and he shall yield royal dainties. 21 Naphtali is a hind let loose : he giveth goodly words. 22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall: 23 The archers have sorely grieved him , and shot at him, and hated him : 24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd , the stone of Israel:) 25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb: 26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren. 27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. 28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them. Glad I'm out...and can choose to be who I want to be, in Christ.

Just testing - doesn't seem to want to add a post.

Peace and good will to all. :) But some can keep their distance. That way, peace and goodwill can be maintained.

So, Catcup, when is the wedding? And what does your heart tell you about attending? You said you'd already made your decision. I say, go, if you reasonably can. Make sure your person knows you're there (get some photos). Be ready with some appropriate scriptures for anyone who gets mean with you (like, which part of that comment you just made fits within Phil 4:8, or Gal 6:10(a) or 1 Cor 13:4? or some other verse of your choosing) And at the get-together afterwards - leave, if you feel uncomfortable, unsafe, got at, picked on, etc. You'll have the photographic evidence that you were there for the ceremony. But probably you'll just have a good time, and enjoy the people you meet. Unless the invitation to you is merely a "token" invitation, your relative and new spouse have invited everyone because they want these guests there, they like them, and they want to share this special occasion with all of you. You could also look forward to it as being a time of healing - for repairing and reconciling some of the more strained relationships you might have with some Wayfers. You don't have to be best buddies thereafter - just reconciled. Not at daggers drawn.

Bit late in the day to be starting something in Doctrinal, but something just occurred to me. You’ve heard VPW and LCM teaching about “crossing the Jordan” and “the Promised Land” as being the new birth and the renewed mind. And you’ve probably heard them teach that we, the standing (Way) believers of our day and time, are the “true Israel.” Note, the promises were given to Israel – the individual. And "we" are his true descendants. The deathbed blessings of the man Israel (recorded in Genesis 49) upon his various descendants were given "by revelation." From this background springs the nation of Israel, of which there were 12 tribes. Historically the northern tribes became vassals of Assyria and other empires and are never heard of individually, and became known as the “lost tribes.” The southern tribe of Benjamin became assimilated into the larger tribe of Judah (hence, the Jews). So…if we are the true Israel…are we also members of individual tribes of Israel? It’s almost a wonder to me now that LCM in particular didn’t try to fit those who left TWI (whether voluntarily or not) and perhaps also those who attend mainstream churches, into one or other of the 12 tribes based on the characteristics mentioned when the original blessings were pronounced. Even, if you like, wrap up tribal allocation with the apeitheia/apisteia teachings – for surely some of the progenitors of those tribes had heard enough but didn’t act on what they’d heard. This looks ripe as a topic for some significant private interpretation (not that I'm going there - just commenting on where others didn't go). But perhaps neither VPW nor LCM found anyone’s research to plagiarize and present as “new knowledge.”

I don't think they'd be keen to expand membership of the CU to non-Wayfers, locals or not. After TWI kicked me out, a couple of years later, the CU kicked me out as well. Can't have "unbelievers" contaminating the worthy CU.

TWI doesn't do things typically or usually. It makes up its own rules. As we know from other topics, there are lots of secret dealings and secret property dealings going on. For instances, when I applied to be in rez, I had to complete, or ratehr get a doctor to complete, a (very personal) medical questionnaire (including a smear test result!!!) - medical stuff is usually disclosed doctor to doctor - yet years later, I heard from LCM's own mouth that he himself checked all the medical questionnaires...well perhaps that was just for the women. If they involve themselves in that level of personal detail, why not get involved in financial personals, too?

In later years (post-fog) I reckon it'd just be yet another means of keeping "oversight" (=control) over people's finances. If you built up too much of a credit balance, you were clearly not living on a need basis. And being a CU, you couldn't go overdrawn. But they could see when you were drawing out money and form a view of what you might be doing with it. And don't bother thinking confidentiality stuff. Lots went on that was supposedly confidential. Yeah, about as confidential as a colander. Would the head honcho of the CU be the Prez of TWI? There you go, then. As Prez, would have access to everything that went on there. I wonder how much pressure there was on staffers to get paid via CU accounts? Because if, as one poster says, it didn't cost in TWI bank fees then it'd be saving ABS, wouldn't it?

Don't know exactly what the rules for CUs are, but one thing they could do is invest the funds received...pay some interest (at lower rate) to members...and keep some of the interest as management fees. The money doesn't just sit there in some bank account doing nothing. If enough people put money in the CU, there's a sizeable sum that can be invested to earn interest.

Haven't followed this thread in a while. I was going to say, about to be lost again for let's hope more than 17 years this time...but Waysider seems to have beaten me to that sentiment. Please let both the "Dr" and his last teaching sink into utter obscurity and rest in peace (or pieces) there forever.

Paw, I wish you well as you seek release from your private prison...I mean, the priest thing. Reporting it was good. I hope you get as much release in the way that you need, as you've enabled for others at this site.

WG, your explanation is terrifying. Froggie, the posh words make it sound considerably less painful. Such a simple procedure really. A great blessing to us in "civilised" societies, but an absolute life saver in developing countries, where it means that essential family members can work to bring in a living for themselves and their dependents. Developing country cataract success stories

It's nice that Paw has never asked for money...because we all "belonged" to a place that demanded money and then more money. A modest monthly payment for those who can afford it would no doubt be welcomed. A mandatory fee might well discourage those who find the site for the first time, and those are the ones who most need the site. But I think Paw spends a significant amount of time caring for the site. Time that, maybe, he could be off playing music, or enjoying barbecues, whatever he enjoys. The flexibility and range of opinion and discussion here is amazing. When I first came, like most people, I probably spent nearly all my time in ATW learning in horror about the antics of leadership and the snares that they used to capture and hold us. In later times, I've enjoyed reading and sometimes posting in Doctrinal. It's as important to investigate and, where necessary, destroy the false doctrinal underpinnings of the abuse. Disentangle that which is correct from that which is clearly incorrect, that which is supposition, that which is mere tradition, and that which is private interpretation. I don't find I can examine "beliefs" with any other bunch of people. Those at church or other Christians elsewhere accept their own ideas as correct and sometimes seem never even really to have thought about them at all. They can't see where I'm coming from with a view to examining beliefs and separating them from traditions. But we-all here have come from the same starting point (PFAL) and have some understanding of how we got to where we are now in our "religious" thinking. Even if, now, we've decided Christianity is all a lot of idiocy, or we have joined a mainstream religion, or we're still in Way mindset, the different views are refreshing, provocative, and enjoyable. Thank you all.

Congratulations, well done, you must be proud. I watched you, too! Good to rejoice with you. Not to detract from your success but I loved the way the orchestra played Land of Hope and Glory (the unofficial Brit national anthem) when you all started to walk on. Here's another version: . It's a sort of national party in the park at dozens of locations all around the British Isles. You can see people really enjoy it.Or maybe...they were practising for your moment of glory, Cindy!

Succinctly put, Tom - We can't go to church because we are the church.

The Grease Spot Bar.

You don't look into the Cafe for a few days, and look what happens...closes down without you. Hmph.... Without the help here, I'd still be completely wrecked. Finding this place here really gave me my life back. Gave me a sound mind. Gave me space to examine what had happened. Discovered - it wasn't me that was at fault - it was them and their systematic abuse and denigration of anyone with a functioning brain. I haven't a clue what hard work goes on behind the scenes; I'm just thankful for the support Paw and the mods - and of course all the posters, old and more recent - have provided. True, there aren't so many new people coming along - but the place is a lifeline for those who find it. My thought is: will TWI think they've "won" and their steadfast stand on the word (gag) has finally crushed the opposition?

Delighted for both of you!

Pretty song. Funny, isn't it, how Jesus came to bring peace - yet so many people get frantic about buying gifts that the recipients don't want - and organizing parties that there are too many of - and making visits that they find tedious... and how many of them give for no reason or go to church to give thanks

End of first day. Tired; a lot to take in. Nice bunch of people. Friendly. Relaxed induction today; another induction to a different part of the organisation tomorrow. By the end of the week they will be assigning me my own tasks but till then, they’re allowing plenty of time to find out who’s who and what’s what. Students wander in and out of the office all day so everything has been planned to take account of that. I will write some more when I’m more to grips with the job. Thank you all so much for your good wishes.

Just about to go to work (!) - great start - it's freezing fog outside. The side roads are extremely slippery - main roads salted and clear. I think maybe I will test out the bus service. We-hey. A working woman again!

I wanna know what Paw, with his vast musical knowledge, thinks.