Twinky

I never knew about the LEAD assaults until I read it here. My Corps didn't get to go, so not sure what the plans would have been. Probably to hitch. What we were asked to do was to hitch to cities where we were to be Lightbearers. The only instructions we got were not to accept lifts in the open backs of vehicles - you know, a work utility vehicle with cab for driver and usually one passenger, and an open back where equipment could be carried. We were given a deadline to be at the venue. We were not given any kind of map either of the states or cities we might pass through, or of the city we were going to. Just an address. Nuts, huh? If you're hitching, you at least want to know if you're being carried in the right direction. Nah. We were to believe God for the right lifts where we could witness to drivers, believe God that the drivers would also take it into their hearts to buy us meals at truckstops (though I think we might have been given a sack lunch to take with us, can't recall), believe God for our safe and speedy journey. I believe we were taken out by bus or some such to a suitable hitching spot (ie, we didn't start from outside TWI's gate). If we got to the destination late (or too near the appointed time) we had to examine ourselves to see where our believing had broken down, such that it was so difficult for us to get the right lifts. Actually I quite liked it. I trusted them to know what they were doing (more fool me) and overcame my qualms because they wouldn't let us do anything foolish, would they? Like firearms safety training, it was to help us overcome our fears. I still hitch occasionally (just short distances) and also occasionally offer others lifts. It's easier to do this in some countries than others.

Hey, Johniam, glad your tree landed where the damage was minimal. Not through the middle of anyone's house or on top of anyone. Small stuff (happily) compared with what's going on in Japan right now.

Thanks, Waysider. Funny, OE.

I did a two-parter once. It didn't start out as a two parter, but the first part was dynamic and really inspired the people there. I had a lot of material and was going to put it together for part 2. But you know it just wouldn't come together like part 1 had. It felt "heavy" and lacked the vigor of part 1. On the way to the location, out of the blue (as it were) I felt inspired to teach something completely different from anything I'd looked at, prepared, considered - in fact, a zip through one of the books of the OT picking out some salient points to part 1. (Free from Way teachings, as I don't think I'd ever heard anything taught from that book.) Yet (though I say it myself) it was magnificent. Really fixed things in people's minds. The people there were excited. They were still talking about it some months later. Heck, maybe even now. While that wouldn't work for SNS, given the opportunity, God might, just might, be willing to work within the teacher if he were given a smidgen of space. At least VPW and LCM pretended that God told them to teach something different from what they'd planned, once in a while.

Was the 75' ash tree ... the Way tree? I find it interesting that "putrid fruit" of an organization is raised, directly challenging Johniam; and he answers with something completely different. Ah well. Have at it, John.

From the thread Your Old Way Bible recently started. In fact over the years, there've been a few threads like that. I thought I'd open this one as a new thread as the Cafe will close soon and this might stay obvious to help latecomers. Others have posted on that thread and elsewhere that it had been a long time before they could read their Bibles again. No pleasure in it; brought back old teachings; all sorts of reasons. For me, it was LCM yelling: "The Bible's got nothing to say to cop-outs/to unbelivers. They need to get themselves back into fellowship (read: TWI)". For me, reading the Bible was reading condemnation. I was too hurt, too damaged. If you're an innie trying to get out; or if you're recently out -- as ever, your experience is common to many. Perhaps some other people here will also be able to tell you how they felt when they first got out. I'd say: put aside your old reading matter (your KJV) and get some other version. But maybe not straight away. You'll be surprised at how fresh some of it seems. Don't try to read it through Way-colored specs and think that it's "inaccurate." Just read it for the pleasure of it. Or don't read it for the pleasure of it. Nobody will condemn you. So, Cafe patrons: How long was it before you felt like reading your Bible again - in any version?

Chas, could you explain that a bit further for the benefit of overseas Cafe patrons? Chuck U Farley?? CUF??

What a waste of talent and ability. Yours, and that of everyone else involved. You'd think they had more important things to do. Move the word, perhaps. Outreach. LOL. I can see the point of an outline, and a rehearsal. I can see the point of squashing individuality in teaching...because some Wayfers simply can't understand anything that's not straight blue book. It's so refreshing to go to other establishments - churches, wherever - and hear something from a different point of view. You know what? There are such similarities (or should be - usually). Even if the teacher is a dyed in the wool trinitarian or from some other different Christian background. Yet the different perspective does give something to think about.

T-Bone, you really didn't have anything much to do with your time, did you? All that time, effort! I remember doing the "homework" of dechomai/lambano marking and the HS/hs stuff. Actually I thik some of the HS/hs marking might have been useful. Not so sure about D/L. I was never a huge marker-up. Just because it's relevant to the latest teaching session on XYZ doesn't mean it's relevant to the teaching session next month on PQR. I did sometimes write Bible cross-refs in that I'd found (for myself) that weren't annotated in margins or footnotes. I still have the old Way Bible (a Companion) but never look at it. I don't mark up Bibles any more. I do have a large selection of different versions of the Bible, and read bits through all of them. Compare translations. Some are better at bringing the text to life, making it more meaningful, by choice of an alternative word. I'm quite keen on a Holman Bible that I got from a Christian bookshop. It seems quite well translated and "accurate" (as far as I can tell) with useful word-choices and nuances of tenses. It's not widely used, though; don't know why.

I can't even be bothered to reply to Johniam's post #110 above. Chockfull has replied adequately on the Soap Box thread. I'll not prolong the agony here. The interest in CFFM is MY interest in what CFFM does with its finances, so far as may be known. It's okay to ask that question, surely? On this thread, I'm not interested in anything else.

John, I started the thread so that you could talk about whatever YOU wanted to talk about - without the need to derail other threads. It looks as if Ham and Waysider have managed a very effective derail, but you can bring it back to whatever YOU want at any time. Not my thread - a gift for you. You managed a very long convoluted post on Dishing it Out that I would have replied to on this thread but it seems that others, notably Chockfull, have done sufficiently well for me. I think, John, of VPW's analogy of a camera - point, focus, shoot - you seem incapable of staying focussed on the matter in hand. If a thread starts about X you divert it to Q via Z, A, B, C, etc and STILL never manage to discuss X. Whereas others will attempt to discuss X and may deviate to discuss W and Y as well but still keep it close to and bring it back to X. There are times that it's uncertain you can actually see "X" through your PFAL colored camera lens. It's perfectly okay to discuss Q, or anything else, if that's what a thread is about.

From The Interenet Archive website: Information access for the blind? What, with "teachings" like VPW's accessible, it'll really be the blind leading the blind, huh? Persons with disabilities...like glass eyes, maybe. Internet Archive isn't anything associated with TWI. Leastways, doesn't seem to be. They pick stuff up with crawlers. So that means someone else has posted all this stuff out there. And you can be sure it's not TWI itself, which is too secretive to put its "teachings" out on the net for people to listen to.

Okay, I opened a new thread specially for Johniam to have his say. Other people have gone there so that they can continue to converse with John. Who hasn't shown up there yet? John!!!! Because, it seems, he would rather distract everybody else. I asked a question because I wanted an answer. The answer seems to be, that CFFM in fact DOES dish out money. I don't know the level of that, but they sent me their tapes for a long time till I asked them not to because I can listen over the net. They've never asked me for anything towards the tape cost. And I haven't seen anybody saying that they are greedy b***s who demand "ABS" as a right. Could I respectfully suggest that if John posts again on this thread - the rest of us ignore him, copy any response onto the Soapbox thread, and respond to him there? He can do what he likes there. Go off on any tangent he likes.

Twelve...doesnt that mean "administratively complete" or some such? You're right. She has had her 12 years of complete administration. TWI is completely completely absolutely completely complete. Or replete. Or deplete. Time to go! As for what happens to charity funding, it should go to another charity that has more or less the same aims. Golly gosh, that could mean a windfall for an offshoot. Or maybe it could be given to a charity or church that really does outreach into the community. Maybe even the church in Van Wert, if it's still there?

Well, that should give John a few ideas to pick at and to keep him happy. Very happy to "debate" with John on his own ideas. For which this thread might provide an outlet. Not happy to have him keep butting in where those ideas persistently distract from the thread in hand. Johniam, over to you...?

Johniam, here you are: A gift thread for you

Johniam, on the Dishing it out thread, said: And I said: It’s quite clear that Johniam will distract every thread that comes his way. So I am starting this in his honor and he can take it wherever he wants. Whenever he wants. Just as long as he leaves other threads alone. Perhaps, Johniam, you’d let me know if you agree with this, as a topic starter? “You understand the WORDS and you understand (you think) the GRAMMAR but you DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING and that pretty much applies to everything you say.” I’m not meaning this as a personal attack, just as a space where you, John, can say your thing and not feel the need to drag everything else off topic. Regard this thread as your own personal soap box.

Oh for crying out loud. Johniam, why do you hijack every thread? Why is it always about YOU? You hide behind VPW and you distract every thread. Now you have parsed a sentence of a few words to make it fit your doctrine (which is nothing to do with this thread anyway). You understand the WORDS and you understand (you think) the GRAMMAR but you DON'T UNDERSTAND THE MEANING and that pretty much applies to everything you say. Johniam, please START YOUR OWN THREADS if you want to argue. Others ARE trying to stick to the point. Hey, I'll help you, then others can get on with the matter in hand.

Oh, T-Bone, I do enjoy your posts! Those excepts you posted are rather chilling. There's a balance somewhere. Not fundy refer it all back to the Bible stuff; and not touchy-feely secular stuff either. Both can end up as "head knowledge" without the wisdom of proper application.

Some have started their own "rogue twigs" - but they just meet together without demanding money. A few meet together and do want money. I know of one that did...it never thrived and is now defunct. The leader just seemed to want money even though he was adequately provided for financially by other means.

Johnia, it's not CFFM's money. It's given to them in trust to use it to help those in need. Like money was given to the apostles to redistribute to those in need. Not to be used for their own personal ends. Sure, some of those ends will include salaries for paid staff (not begrudging that) but it's not to be held in a bank account gathering interest when there are people with genuine needs out there. It's like the manna that was received in the desert. Use it straight away or it will go bad. Manna only kept two days over the Sabbath. Likewise a heap of ABS that's kept "turns bad" and makes those who "guard" it think of it as their personal property. But it isn't. In effect, they're stealing it off those who do have needs. Back to the topic, johniam. Do please stop being so distracting. Go start your own thread. Stop hijacking other people's. All you do, in fact, johniam, is make me think that CFFM is doing good. Because the model you keep holding up,VP, is so clearly bad, and you are obviously unable to say that about CFFM. Thanks!

Anyway, this thread has been derailed and is going further off track, thanks to Johniam. This thread is NOT about TWI or VPW or any such. What I wanted to know was whether CFFM uses the money it receives to help the community around it, or the believers who at least put the money in the coffers. A few of you have suggested that, yes, it does. It does seem more open to giving away the money to those in need. I'm pleased to hear that. Any more comments about CFFM?

johniam said: mmm - What happened to "freely you have received - freely give"? Or is it, then, because you charged me for a Bible class, that gives me the right to charge someone else? I don't think so! Who did Jesus "charge"? Who did his disciples "charge"? Who did Paul, Apollos, other early gospel-spreaders, charge? But Simon the magician wanted to know - so that he could charge. And he was briskly dealt with. There is much condemnation of those "who think themselves to be something." That is, those who self-promote. Christians have no business "marketing" themselves. They are to reckon the old man dead. They die to self, live to Christ. Therefore, johniam, shouldn't they be marketing their "new man" - their Christ - shouldn't they be "marketing" Christ? (Except that if they announced the price - who'd pay? It only costs you - yourself!) The god of this world wants people to idolize people, bands, groups, events. The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has a rather different perspective. He makes blessings fall on the rich and the poor, the saint and the sinner. Without charge. Just because he likes to give.

And does this instruction in counselling also go as far as saying, go and help that person with their "physicals"? Does it suggest, when you're round at their house inspecting for cleanliness, that you haul out the vac, wash the pots, help with the laundry, etc etc? Because if you could help them live in a physically cleaner tidier place, you just might find their depression might lift a little. Heck, there were enough higher-ups who expected twiggies to go help clean their houses and yards. And they (the BCs etc) were perfectly capable of doing their own housework (except of course they didn't have the time because they were "moving the Word"). How about helping someone who for a while couldn't help themself? Oh...no...that wouldn't work. That would stop the counsellor from "moving the Word" elsewhere. Gotta keep reaching out, hey.

I never thought it particularly introduced doubt. Well, no more doubt than you can have about any future. I've always looked forward to the next life to come. which I don't expect to be like this life that I have now. But in the life that I have now, I'd like it to be the best that it can be. And I think that happens by living a Christian lifestyle as well as is possible. It opens the eyes and heart to the abundance that's available in a relationship - with God, with friends. Heart-sharing, caring, supportiveness...love. Not necessarily abundance in physical wealth.