Twinky

Certainly is a sham, OS. I would've got the forkie licence if I'd continued there, but found myself hauled in to work in one of the offices in an area where I do have some knowledge. I learned to drive on the "wrong side of the road" and got a US driving licence...had to, though not trained by TWI of course. Somebody lent me their car to do the test. I guess you could say that the exposure to different things is what it's about. For some people in my Corps, doing snow clearance was ... shocking. Ther's not a lot of snow in Florida so it was a new experience for them. For others picking potatoes (and not from the supermarket shelf) was a new experience. Didn't do anything new that would give me beyond a menial job...working in McD's as a dishwasher or burger flipper. Nothing enough to make a resume look ... like you had some special skill. Nonetheless, perhaps some knowledge or skills of practical stuff were acquired. Not to mention the wonderful experience of compare and contrast leadership styles. And there were some (a few) good guys there.

Couldn't agree more, OldSkool. Soon as Johniam makes an appearance on a thread, you know it's "gone" and it'll never stay anywhere near the topic as originally started. Nothing against John personally, just wish he would stay somewhat relevant. Anyway, this particular thread is for him to be as relevant or irrelevant as he likes. And those of us who want can join him or not. I'm quite happy to talk to him about anything - on this thread.

Sheesh, I thought you meant the witness of stars like...Michael Jordan, or something. On the subject of animals in heaven, I doubt it. One thing I think of is that as fetuses we had no idea of what bigger thing was available to us and (to the extent that fetuses think) we probably enjoyed playing with our umbilical cords and would have decided that we weren't leaving home without them. The we got born and learned about cats and dogs and horses and other critters. So who knows what we might find to play with in heaven. One of those things from Ezekiel 1 maybe. Terrifying.

LOL, Excie, thought it might be something like that. Soccy, that dog looks like it could give anyone a run for their money. Bundle of mischief. Amazing how much more empathetic family pets are, compared to human beings - even family members.

More than just "being" at - he provokes all the arguments. Other people are just conversing amongst themselves. Not necessarily agreeing, but paying attention to each other...listening.

Seriously, though... Is there anything that you could say was well done? That you learned something from? That is useful in "worldly" terms? (I discount stringing chairs and killing chickens. But include mass dishwashing in the Dishroom.) > Events planning and management? > Feeding large numbers of people? > Green Room or AV skills? > Floral arrangements? > Dressmaking or clothing adjustment? I learned: How to use a power drill (to put up shelving) How to use a forklift Very efficient dishroom techniques Some useful things about trees and their care, from Grounds Crew But nothing about office efficiency And nothing that's "earth-shattering"

John, "would you be blessed" to bring your thoughts on Excie's thread "Asking your Opinion" onto this thread?

Paw, maybe you could uplift the latter part of this thread and attach it to the Soap Box thread? It was to stop stuff like this happening, that I started that thread.

Waysider, Johniam certainly will think of something and you can be sure he won't post on a relevant thread. He posted all this stuff about his own "Connect" thread on Excie's thread about an unpleasant post she'd received. Not on "Connect." Excie, you just do what you need to do. You're not dirty or shameful. Your rapist is. Or was. At least he can't rape anyone else now. And you are still alive. And being alive is good! Good that you can warn others about creepy old men and those in positions of authority.

Apologies as you say it's not your email, Johniam, though it does sound like your tone. I accept that you didn't write that. I am not "witch hunting" you. Or anybody else. Life's too short.

My cat was Twinkletoes. Called him "Twinky" for short. Seemed a innocuous not-giving-much-away sort of a name to register on a site where I was afraid who I might "meet." . Besides, Twinky was a great comfort to me. Abandoned by TWI and in a total mess in my head, I knew I needed something to love but was incapable of anything (even feeding myself). A spider would have died of starvation, living in my flat, for all the care it would have got. But looking forward to visits from this kitten was the first stage to my post-TWI recovery. This undemanding little kitten decided to "twinkle his toes" into my flat. Sometimes he visited, sometimes he didn't. I didn't have to care for him, feed him, do anything. But his occasional visits did give me something to look forward to. He turned into a great big galumph of a cat, always curious, always fun-loving, and graduated from running up net curtains to running up ladders and getting stuck on the roof. Sadly he had a bad stroke a few years ago (he was, what, 11 or 12) and had to be put down. Thread in "In Memoriam."

You know, I was gonna say that, Socrates, but you beat me to it. I reckon there'd have to be a significant % set aside for that. But anyway, since they had an opportunity with the Allen and Parker lawsuits - why didn't they just believe God to make these opportunities away? (Or maybe they thought the Allen out of court settlement actually had made it go away?) And why doesn't the faithful remnant still hangin' in there - believe for the opportunity to make Rosie go away?

I don't care that he has a doctorate, or not. I never did care. I was only interested that I had some sort of teaching that helped me read the Bible better. And it did - initially - mainly because it was poached from men who did care about God. I do care that he lied about his "qualifications" - dishonest right from the start. Had I know about that at the beginning (but how could anyone know, back in those pre-internet days?) ... maybe I would've asked a few more questions. Or maybe not. It was still the most interesting Bible teaching that I'd ever heard. Which says more about the slackness of Bible teaching in churches, than about the excellence of PFAL. But the man must have had some genuine qualifications? Surely, to get his role in the church in Van Wert, they'd have to be convinced that he had some genuine study and a genuine ordination? At what point did he acquire the "doctorate"? Before or after he was a pastor in Van Wert?

In our normal life “standing in the gap” might mean helping the weak. Or speaking up for someone. Perhaps helping someone access health services, benefits or other things they need. Perhaps defending someone in court. Perhaps standing up to the local bully – whether you’re just being a good neighbour, or whether you’re a paid person like a police officer. Perhaps helping someone negotiate affordable debt repayments, or to keep their home. Perhaps helping someone get appropriate schooling for a child. Perhaps offering comfort to someone recently bereaved, and helping them get back on their feet. “Standing in the gap” Biblically (though you were not after Biblical refs, Waysider), as well as defending, also has the connotation of rebuilding and restoring, as well as standing for what is right. The stander in the gap has an intercessory role (or maybe intercession’s just what I’m pondering now – started something about intercession in Doctrinal recently) in turning away punishment – probably justifiable – and also a rebuilding and restoring role. Right now I don’t have a job so work as a volunteer doing among other things advice work on debt and benefits matters. I help people work out budgets, work out their finances; teach them the difference between what they think they want, and what they can afford and realistically need; help them get any benefits they may be entitled to; help them make offers to their creditors; fight off claims from creditors, close the door on bailiffs. There is absolutely no doubt that I feel I’m standing in the gap between them and even worse poverty, homelessness, and a generally miserable way of life. I never thought about it in spiritual terms…but there it is. I can’t teach them explicitly about the love of God, but I surely can show it to them.

I Am the Sheep Gate – Fr Joseph Pellegrino So...standing in the gap is for defence and protection of the weak, and of what is valuable (sheep being "money on legs").

It sounds mean and belittling. "You got stabbed in the back. I got a paper cut on my finger. We've both been hurt. Now let's be brave and make like neither happened." Or maybe: "My dad's bigger than your dad." Sad that someone could write that, but you could ask if they meant it differently from how it comes across. If you care that much. Or you could just put them on Ignore and not open any more PMs from them unless they have a header "Apology." Chockfull - what came to my mind also.

I've heard this man Dietrich Bonhoeffer referred to by a number of church ministers and in Christian contexts. I know something of his history. Has anyone hear read any of his books, in particular the one of the thread title? Is it good? (s it readable? Worth getting? Or is it some heavy thing that takes some getting the head around because it's very theological? I think Geisha might have some knowledge; don't know about others of you. Extract: "Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, communion without confession. Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, grace without Jesus Christ, living and incarnate. Costly grace...is the kingly rule of Christ, for whose sake a man will pluck out the eye which causes him to stumble, it is the call of Jesus Christ at which the disciple leaves his nets and follows him."

All praise to Him Who reigns above In majesty supreme, Who gave His farm for man to lie, That he might man redeem! Refrain Blessèd be the Name! Blessèd be the Name! Blessèd be the Name of Doc Vic! Blessèd be the Name! Blessèd be the Name! Blessèd be the Name of Doc Vic! His Name above all names shall stand, Exalted more and more, At God the Father’s own right hand, Where angel hosts adore. Refrain Redeemer, Teacher, Friend of none Once ruined by the fall, Thou hast devised enslavement’s plan, For Thou hast lied for all. Refrain ====and here's a verse that didn't appear in On the Way==== His Name shall be the Counselor, The mighty Prince of Peace, Of all earth’s kingdoms Conqueror, Whose reign shall never cease. Refrain

Exodus 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish. 11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money. In OT times, if a man took another wife, he had exactly the same duty to support all of them completely. Not permitted to favor the new wife above the wife of his youth (no sporting the new trophy wife over the wife who's now old and wrinkled). And still has to treat the new wife/wives properly too. I believe that in countries where polygamy is practiced, that's till the case. Can't show any favoritism. Must treat them all the same - generously. Feed them, clothe them, treat them lovingly. Well, Dotsie was fed and clothed...don't know about the duty of marriage (sexual intercourse). If a "spiritual" marriage, he has exactly the same duties to all his other "wives". (Sorry, Excathedra). Man, no wodner he needed so much ABS coming in...to support all those "wives".

Yes, Socrates. We all know now it's "saved a wretch" but in TWI speak, it was "saved a soul" for me and to others appears to have been "saved someone." Can you imagine St Vic calling himself "a wretch"? LOL.

I always knew this as: "saved a soul like me" - and so it states in the Blue songbook - song no 11. Why change from "someone" to "a soul"? Some sort of mind/body/spirit theology? Liked the sound better? Who knows?? Only the dead man. Yes, BA, it was that verse. I was surprised to hear it. Specially since it mentions "the way" in it.

They changed the lyrics "because they don't fit with the accuracy of the Word," so I was told - even as a new Wayfer. I accepted it then, sort of. There are some decent modern songs around - but there seem to be to be a lot more that aren't good. Mixed theology. Like this one: Here I Am To Worship ------Chris Tomlin Light of the world / You stepped down into darkness. Opened my eyes, let me see. Beauty that made this heart adore You Hope of a life spent with You Here I am to worship, / Here I am to bow down, Here I am to say that You're my God You're altogether lovely / Altogether worthy, Altogether wonderful to me King of all days / oh, so highly exalted Glorious in heaven above / Humbly You came To the earth You created / All for love's sake became poor Here I am to worship, Here I am to bow down, Here I am to say that You're my God You're altogether lovely / All together worthy, Altogether wonderful to me I'll never know how much it cost To see my sin upon that cross (x3) Here I am to worship, Here I am to bow down, Here I am to say that You're my God You're altogether lovely Altogether worthy, / Altogether wonderful to me (repeat) I'll never know how much it cost to see my sins upon that cross-- And there are many others like it that just leave me cold and wanting to run out of the building. There's this old song, Holy Holy Holy by Reginald Heber Holy, holy, holy! Lord God Almighty! Early in the morning our song shall rise to Thee; Holy, holy, holy, merciful and mighty! God in Three Persons, blessèd Trinity! And my church likes to sing this "variant" of the above song by Gilberto Barreto: Holy, Holy, Holy / Is the Lord God Almighty Holy, Holy, Holy / Is the Lord God Almighty Who was, and is, and is to come. Holy, Holy, Holy Is the Lord God Almighty Is the Lord God Almighty. which is fine words, but then, as the next verse< the church "worship leader" likes to sing: Jesus, Jesus, Jesus / Is the Lord God Almighty Jesus, Jesus, Jesus / Is the Lord God Almighty Who was, and is, and is to come. Holy, Holy, Holy Is the Lord God Almighty Is the Lord God Almighty. The worship leader hasn't got quite as far as: Ho-ly Spi-rit, Spirit / Is the Lord God Almighty So I don't mind that some lyrics of some songs have been changed. It just takes me by surprise when I hear different lyrics and sometimes new verses that I never heard in TWI. There seem to be several verses to Amazing Grace that TWI never sang - or maybe some mainstream churches are doing their own add-a-bit.

I didn't know Hank Williams wrote that song. And there's an extra verse of it too that I've never heard before.

Essence of the soap box is to keep John from derailing other threads with his butterfly mind that refuses to focus on the thread in hand. I for one am much more interested to read John's views on this thread than be so annoyed by his derailing activities on other threads that I want to tie him to a chair and make him write "I will pay attention" 1000 times. How he chooses to use his soap box is up to him. Certainly a very wide range of VP-related topics as well as other topics, have come up. Carry on here, John!