Twinky

Striking the difference in presentation in the two pictures. The first, they look nice, casual, a bit hippyish, naive kids. The second, they look seriously "Way-ized" in formal "casual" poses - already in the mold.

What Geer did was decide to institute an annual European get-together. He wanted that to become the venue for (at least) European believers. I went to such an event, in Amsterdam. It was a really great time, marred only by the presence of Geer. Then of course Gartmore was ready and events started happening up there. And that is a really good idea. Saves unnecessary expense and trekking across the world, and European travel is easy and can be done in many ways to suit time and budget. Enables people with a non-US outlook to meet and deal with the issues they face in a more acceptable manner. Or could have been. Geer's festival/get-together wouldn't be in midsummer, but was to be in winter (December/Jan). But that's not how it worked out. It was a power-grab. And even if it weren't a power grab, it could so easily have become a burden on European believers - all have to go to the European event, and then all have to go to the US event. It still doesn't address transport issues for other overseas believers - in Australia, New Zealand, India, Zaire (who were in fact supported by TWI, yes they were), even Scandinavia, who still have to get over an ocean somewhere. But it did give (or would have given) a choice and perhaps a cheaper option.

For sure a cash cow if you can make people come to it by laying on them a guilt trip if they don't make a Rock trip. For believers who lived overseas, it was a really big expense, what with air fares and all. Even if a discounted air fare to somewhere frequently visited was available, there were add-on costs to more local airports and the cost of getting from the airport to HQ. To not be able to make it to the Rock was to recognize that the transport expenses were huge, when coming from countries where wages are not at US levels and disposable income may not be much. One year, some attempt was made in the country where I was living to cater for faithful believers who couldn't afford all that expense. LCM's response: "F*** 'em, if they can't be bothered to get here, they can take care of themselves back at home." (Maybe that was part of a general response more aimed at US believers - but that's how it came down to us, overseas.) Some years, there were offers to pick up Internationals from Dayton or Columbus. But not every year. And sometimes it was just the kindness of staff who recognized the additional difficulties posed for Internationals, and went and collected them anyway. Out of all the money coming in...wouldn't it have been kind to share a little with the overseas people by covering the small expense of collecting them from an accessible airport? (After all, what was the motor coach for? - not that that was around in my time - but coaches and buses can be hired for a day or a week.) There wasn't even any help for International Corps whose only means of transportation was flying. So after my WoW year (so part-time wages) I still had to find full air fare back to the Rock. My WoW family clubbed together to give me something towards my expenses, bless 'em. HQ did give me the entrance ticket free and vouchers for food. Big deal. I didn't think of it at the time, just accepted it. International outreach? International grab, more like.

My Corps sis spent her interim year as Mrs W's housekeeper. She didn't enjoy it, for so many reasons. Always on call, on duty. Skivvy for everything, everyone. Never able to share any time with other interim Corps who were also working on campus. Worn out with - nothing. Yeah, Sky. Which of 'em hazarded their lives for the gospel? Which of them was there to serve? And which was there to be served? Back to topic now: does anyone know who was in the Zero Corps? And what has happened to them since that time? Have any gone on to train and serve as real ministers?

Dunno when you were in, sky, but LCM was the same, perhaps worse, denigrated whoever WC0 was - or no, perhaps that was WC1 - absolutely disgusted. Used his disgust at their lack of commitment to reinforce the unswerving commitment that we in rez were supposed to be developing. [Huh, do you reckon he ever knew any of them - ever?]. I was there when all those old-timers were announced as the "real First Corps" - Mrs Owens, Howard (I suppose), etc - I can't remember who was honored thus. But thinking about it now - I can't remember that Dorothea Wierwille was a part of the honorary "real First Corps". Even if she was "First Lady." Poor woman. Passed over...again. (Ugh, the ego of it all. :( )

Thomas, where do you get this information from? That's 6 allegations, of which I don't have too much difficulty with (2), but the other allegations? (BTW - "dilemma").

Hmm, Ham...you know you isn't really a Doctor, don't you? But is you really a Master? Is you even a squirrel? Hey, man,,, congratulations. It was a long hard slog, lotsa work. Well done. Time now to enjoy ...

Very pretty, Paw, but what does it do? I can't post a "hi!" on it.

I love camping. But when I got to RoA, it was as Corps and I slept in a huge tent with who knows how many other Corps women. And one year I was in a hut thing - were they called Corps-tels? Too many bodies, too hot, too sticky. Ugh. Give me the fresh air of a tent any time. I quite liked what I saw of the Rock but then I didn't have anything to compare it with. Hard work. Not too much time to explore and find out what was going on. This might be my venue for this year: Greenbelt Thousands of people. From a huge variety of Christian backgrounds. Or maybe no Christian background at all - they just want to be there. Loads of events, performances, teachings, presentations, stuff going on. Some noisy. Some quieter, more contemplative. There's a camping area for those who want; there's other accommodation ranging from cheap B&B to posh hotels. I might volunteer...they need stewards on the camp site. Edited: double post. (Why does it do that??)

Y'know, Waysider, it was all a part of his big joke at our expense. Here's a common colloquial definition for the verb "to doctor" - see definition 3 below doctor 1. Informal To give medical treatment to: "[He] does more than practice medicine. He doctors people. There's a difference" (Charles Kuralt).2. To repair, especially in a makeshift manner; rig.3. a. To falsify or change in such a way as to make favorable to oneself: doctored the evidence.b. To add ingredients so as to improve or conceal the taste, appearance, or quality of: doctor the soup with a dash of sherry. See Synonyms at adulterate.c. To alter or modify for a specific end: doctored my standard speech for the small-town audience.d. Baseball To deface or apply a substance to (the ball): was ejected because he doctored the ball with a piece of sandpaper. Free Dictionary You'll find similar definitions of this colloquial meaning in other dictionaries. So every time he was called "Doctor" - it was an acknowledgment of his fraud - that he had "doctored" the Bible that he taught. So despite your "he wasn't a real doctor" bit that you put in frequently - that's exactly what he was! But in a different sense. After all, it doesn't have quite the same positive vibes, to say, "Well, Fraudster said..."

Hard to "stand on your own" when your legs have been cut out from under you. Don't you remember in PFAL that VP said a believer will never have to stand alone again? Of course, that wouldn't be those who have been M&A'd and other believers have been forbidden on pain of their own "excommunication" from speaking with them.

No, no, Chockfull. It does stand on its own. Its own people, that is. Tramples all over 'em, in fact.

When were these photos taken, OldSkool? (Year) What would be attractive about her? To another of her persuasion, I mean...like her best friend, naming no names, but when last seen had a similar hairstyle. Is the attraction being the "power behind the throne"? (Though to be fair, perhaps some of us here aren't exactly the finest specimens of humankind, either.)

It's a good question, Roy.

Well, OldSkool, your lack of attention to detail shows you are at serious spiritual risk. Your whole Christian walk could be compromised. You are leaving the door wide open to the adversary. Should we mark and avoid you - or encourage you to carry on, LOL.

What's "Ramdon" anyway - or is it a mistype for "random"? Rosie looks ... so ... lovely.

The Amish reputedly have a very strong community spirit - they just don't want to go along with the modern world of the USA. Their community values include compassion, tolerance and forgiveness. See the items below. Shoot me first Amish school shooting Can you really imagine anything like that happening at TWI, an organization with paranoid people touting guns so that they can shoot first; that bans, and emotionally and mentally massacres its own people; and spouts that there is no forgiveness without repentance (which is not in fact a Biblical concept). TWI isn't so much reclusive as secretive.

And it should be different, speaking to others outside one's family? ?? "Especially if the outsider is trying to harm/disrespect you?" - um, maybe because you disrepected him first, could it be? How disrespected is the following? Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him [the Ethiopian eunuch], and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest ? 31 And he said , How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer , so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away : and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. That some serious disrespect. Taking away an innocent man to be executed. Do we read about Jesus verbally abusing his abusers? Either at the time of his arrest, or any other time? Have you ever been that badly disrespected, Johniam? No? Then practise the self-control of the Master. Or alternatively, you could turn the other cheek (literally) and just walk away and leave the bully blustering away to himself. Ideally, walk away early before it gets to major conflict, brawl and battle of words. Did Jesus make a habit of bawling people out? No, he only bawled out specific groups - the hypocritical Pharisees. And what we read isn't the first time that he's spoken with them. Before that there has been extreme provocation and "baiting" of him. It's not random abuse. Johniam, have you ever tried Jesus's approach to abuse: Bless those that persecute you? Bless, and do not curse. Pray for them...and for yourself. Mt 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Rom 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless , and curse not. Note what's not included in that: "Give 'em a mouthful of abuse." And that's not limited to "enemies" - whether within one's family, household, community, or total strangers. The examples you gave are way off point. But what's news...? Good for her. Maybe more of us should have done that. Nipped it in the bud. Just emulating their example, of course. But she was reproving him for not being an example of Christ-likeness.

The ancients... who, exactly? No doubt ideas have varied considerably over the pre-Christian millennia. What did Stone Age Man think? (Never mind the thoughts of Greek philosophers over an extended period.) What did Egyptians of relevant times think? What did Assyrians think? Are there any common "ancient" concepts? "Locations" for heaven? Or is it simply a recognition of there being something "much bigger" than us and our planet? Is heaven a manmade concept? Is, indeed, God, a manmade concept? ...Is it perhaps time I went to bed (it's 2AM)? Since my bedroom's way above street level - will I be in heaven?

After reading that list that Kit posted, perhaps next number: 23 Leave the entire packet on the store shelf. Sounds dreadful stuff.

Let's just back up a bit here. What would Jesus do? Did he yell and scream at his disciples? It doesn't seem so. He did reprove them, sometimes sternly - but lovingly. He didn't belittle them, tear them down. He certainly didn't aggrandize himself. How did he treat others - hangers-on? He taught them kindly, using words and expressions, graphic examples, what was around him, that they could relate to. Have another look at the sermon on the mount (for example). What would Paul do? He was skilled in argument. He argued with the best. Not arguing rudely, aggressively, or belittlingly. He argued persuasively about "the unknown God" in many locations. In fellowships, he taught at length, in detail. He didn't bellow at those who were listening. Even when some sleepyhead fell out of the window, Paul didn't bellow at anyone for their lack of believing, or lack of attention / falling asleep. Those are the models that should be followed. Therefore, our handling of others, whether in "sermons" or "teachings" or just everyday matters, should be with goodness, forbearance and longsuffering. Not with screaming, yelling, foul language, and belittling, which fits more into this category: Compare and contrast.

Took me quite a while to get used to how "gracious" people were ... kind, generous, willing to help, "let-you-get-on-with-it" kinda easy living. Too many kindnesses to even begin to quantify. I was so suspicious - thought they were all out to "trick" me. What a numbskull I was! ...Embarrassing to reflect on what shameful, evil, thinking we had been taught... Be kind. You never know what weird stuff people are dealing with in their minds. Even if they look and act "normal."

Long time before I could read a Bible of any type. When I finally got to opening one - it wasn't KJV which had become totally incomprehensible to me - but The Message. About as far apart as you can get. But readable, startlingly different in its paraphases, and got me thinking again. Now I most regularly read Holman Christian Bible, which I rather like - but other versions come to hand sometimes, when I prefer a change. If we'd been encouraged to read other versions in the first place, a lot of TWI "teaching" would have been dispensible because it would have been easier to comprehend what was written plainly, instead of wrestling with 15th century English as well as the meaning of the message being conveyed. But hey, that would have denied too much scope for "teaching" and "literals according to usage."

I wonder if Pond knows this place is still open? She hasn't been at the Cafe since Feb 24. Does she go to exwayvision or the Facebook page? Hello, hello? Calling Pond!

Waysider! Where do you get all these amazing photos from? Whatever the topic, you seem to be able to find something a propos.