Twinky

Socks, so right, no doubt that's why there is so much in the NT about being DOERS of the word, not just HEARERS. When we DO what it says, we get the results - we gain the experience - we learn - we can take on more stuff. Make it real in our lives. Wayfer thinking is so much "knowing" and not building on the real experience of "doing" - on parsing every word (and pretending to parse Greek or Hebrew) to draw out supposed nuances -then "teaching" how to apply - whereas the real skill of it is actually doing. For instance, it says: if you have two coats, give to the person who has none. Meaning: both more, and less, than that. Give of your surplus - not just your surplus overcoats. Don't hoard. Look out for other people - and other people's needs. Be willing and ready to share. THEN (when you give your surplus) you can expand your experience to include the experience the real joy of helping a person in need. AND you can overcome your poverty-thinking, your fear of not having enough. THEN you will "be enlarged" not just in this area of life, but in others too. That's a thousand times more important than merely knowing the scripture that says "give." BUT it has to come from the heart. We can challenge ourselves to believe the scriptures to grow in all areas of life (and many did, as newbie believers) (it was a daily challenge to me to catch the train!! How God helped me there!!!!) but being forced to do anything only turns our "experiences" into grudging and unprofitable miserable "works" and lessens the "experience." Our mighty leaders, especially the top bracket, didn't demonstrate that in their lives. A bowl of candy on the desk isn't the same as living and giving generously ... Giving surplus gifts away (LCM once gave away a shedload of knicknacks to my in rez WC) - isn't kind really, when many of those gifts were more or less demanded from others in the first place. They told the inrez Corps that we would have plenty of challenges to rise to the word. Yeah, right. Many of them were "engineered" by causing unnecessary stress on the Corps. You sleep-deprive people enough - they will be snappy with each other. Problems will arise. Then we need to seek "forgiveness" and "forbearance." You set people to spy on each other and demand "reporting back" - that breeds anxiety and suspicion, not confidence. You criticize and complain enough and don't acknowledge ability, talent or initiative - ... Whereas, in fact, it is the gentleness of God that draws us. Not His pressure-cooker beating down. (Just to mix a few metaphors.) Now that's an experience I didn't get in the Corps.

Or even, learned to drivel.

Amazing hat anybody bothered to contact you - but then you left them. If they'd kicked you out, nobody would've contacted you.Yep, it's all about control. Who's in control? You were! Well done. Yeah, that would've happened too. They would have snared you with your own words. Another way to exercize control/damage limitation. You can be sure that if your name came up, your reputation was blackened anyway. I'm glad for you that you can maintain a relationship with the rest of your family still in TWI. It must be difficult at times. For all of you.

PFAL on Twitter, maybe? With RHST on Kindle? Buy your required reading on TWI-Bay?

Long time since we've seen you here, Pete. Happy New Year, or Hogmanay if that's what you celebrate (or happy Christmas, getting in early for next year). You are such a great thinker...have another drink. Think some for me. Oh...that would be drink some for me.

I shall be getting more and more involved in the church plant that I've volunteered to attend/work at. The new church is in a deprived area, and I hope to see people blossom and move into positively fruitful lives, being released from the misery of poverty and addiction. I shall be more involved in another Christian organisation (Street Pastors) which goes out on Friday and Saturday nights 10pm-3am in my city, reaching out to anyone in need - for whatever reason. And I shall be preparing for another half marathon (in early March) as a fundraiser for a charity to help the real "dregs of society" - not just a charity run by Christians, but one which provides support for the people to reintegrate into society and also gives them the opportunity to explore Christianity in a non-threatening way. Oh, and at the end of Jan I'm away on hols overseas. First long hol in over 4 years. Somewhere in all of that I'll be plugging away at my new business, taking care of people's physical needs (gardening, housecleaning, companionship...) and generally doing whatever God sends my way. It's a wonderful life. Every minute is exciting.

>>What I thought of the article: Cringe, run away and hide. Or bang the silly head of the author against the wall. Couldn't read it, just skipped over the oily phrases. >>Non-doctrinal response: Give 'em a link to GSC ! Maybe to the Actual errors in PFAL paper on the front page. Few words, just a link saying: Some interesting additional info here: (link)

Be "grace"ful about it though.

I went to stay with an SP who'd been very good to me and supported me generously financially. I didn't know many people in the US and nobody invited me to stay with them. So I visited this SP. Nobody ever challenged me about it. But apparently he got it in the neck from someone higher up his part of the Way tree and he (not I) was told I should have gone to some other place (not specified) and stayed with other SPs (none of whom had invited me) and taught them what I had learned in rez. HQ also told all the inrez corps they could not stay there over the hols and had to go out and share what they had learned in rez. This is not a big help to International Corps, who can't return to home areas. They didn't suggest who I should stay with nor offer "help" with who or where Internationals should go nor how Internationals should pay for travel to other areas. I think, now, I'm glad they didn't tell me where to go (I might have reciprocated) ... I forgot NY Eve is VPW's birthday. And there was the compulsory show, sort of variety performance, in the auditorium. I did enjoy some of the presentations. Never quite got the "praying in the new year" stuff. Still don't. Since New Year is an arbitrary date (as to when it falls) shouldn't all dates be treated the same? A new year at sowing time in spring or after the harvest is gathered in, makes more sense.

Enjoy, have a good time, have a drink or two or three... two drink limit doesn't apply.

If he did any of that when you were there, Wordy One, he certainly didn't when I was in rez.He did say that "mass" was a celebration of death - but that was all. In fact - "mass" is simply a variant of an old word meaning "meal" (like "mess" - a mess room isn't a messy room but one where one eats). It's a "Christ meal" - a meal of celebration. When I was in rez, there used to be a lovely decorated tree that would be placed in the entrance lobby to the OSC. And Mrs W would give "holiday gifts" to everyone. After going through a period of "Season's Greetings" - I don't care, will wish people happy Christmas, accept merry Xamas... I don't care. Please just enjoy yourselves in a pleasant and peaceable way.

Or if you've left and are thinking of going back...as I was...Google brought up GSC before The Way International...and after About The Way forum, I never got as far as TWI. There are enough escapees worldwide that you needn't feel alone.

Or if you can't or don't want to speak with people - read the boards here. Prepare to be shocked to the core.

If you want a raspy voice try . Same but different.

Good point Waysider, never thought of that. Just think...if you were deaf, you'd never have heard PFAL or VPW ranting on - and specifically never have heard LCM the arch-ranter goiong on. But then - you'd've been cast out long before as having weak believing, not having been healed. (No offence meant to any deaf people out there, not mocking you, just that organization.)

I thought you meant this kind of muzzle loader: Well it's got a loaded muzzle...!

And yet, who did JC hang out with? People in pubs, ordinary guys, prostitutes, wasters, ne'er do wells... He knows our weaknesses and loves us in spite of. If JC in all his goodness wasn't ashamed or too embarrassed or too "holy" to mix with them...why should we be afraid to present ourselves to God, in all our weaknesses? And to ask him for help, protection, whatever... as we might ask a loving earthly father? Who loves us despite our selfishness and adolescent antagonism. God's goodness and lovingkindness confronts us... urges a more worthy endeavor... not terror of him. Surely that would just make any "recipient" (?) to want to hide under a rock - not seek the protection of the Rock. Maybe, Geisha, we'll just have to differ about this. It's for each of us to form our own relationship with our Father. He loves us dearly no matter where we're coming from.

I just don't get this "fear" (=terror) of God. I loved my earthly father. He was kind, loved his family devotedly, gave his life for us in fact; he was light on discipline (that was Mum's job) but when he said No, he meant No! In all my growing years he spanked me once; well deserved; and I live with the reason why and mended my ways ever since. But be afraid of him? Be terrorized by him? Fear him? Utterly laughable. I mended my ways because of his love and his forbearance. Because he loved me. Because he would do whatever he could so that I could enjoy my life. Because he treated me kindly, tenderly, not oppressively. And so I perceive God. My heavenly father wouldn't want to terrorize me any more than my human father. Surely? By contrast, my Mum disciplined us hard and tightly. Restricted what I could do. She loved me and didn't want me to make mistakes. Did I respect that? No!!!! I grew into an angry adolescent. I hated her and we had major rows. I ran away from home as soon as I could (at age 18). My father's dying wish was that my mother and I would make up. At the end of his life he devoted himself to trying to reconcile us. And when he died...I knew that it would honor him, to make up with my Mum. Actually she is a very good, supportive, wonderful woman. It took me growing up to see that. If I end up half the wonderful woman she is, I'll be well pleased. I'd do anything to help her and improve her life. She loves to visit me (I love that too) and it would be nice if she came to live with me. Where you guys get your fear (terror) of God I really don't know. What role models did you have, growing up? What role models from your earthly bosses? Are you spiritual adolescents, still? What kind of relationship can you have, really, with someone you are afraid of? Appeasement? Subjugation (not submission)? Extreme wariness? No ways tender as a nursing mother, lovingly reaching out hands to you, a relationship to cast all your cares upon.

I will be finding all about this in Jan when I go for an overseas trip. Can't wait for the security stuff......... :(

That's an interesting new perspective, Kit. That's rather thought-provoking. My church did a "roving nativity play" this week round the houses where its primary catchment area is. We sang carols that got local residents a bit interested. Then there was a new view of a familiar topic. Joseph and Mary...my fiance...pregnant...a bit of a scrap breaks out between J&M as they try to talk the innkeeper into having them..."what are you going to call this baby?" "Well, I thought Robert was a nice name, but Mary says it's got to be something else." Later the wise men come. The innkeeper says he didn't know anything about kings, but he'd seen this couple, the girl was pregnant. "But they looked a bit...y'know, common..." And the wise men think, "Oh can't be them then, not if it's a king to be born..." It was funny. But made you think. (It was a real pregnant Mary too... baby is due early Feb. Pity "Mary's" son no.1 was fretty and crying a lot. LOL)

Why is this topic in ATW anyway?

Agreed we need to have some sort of security - but how is it delivered? I've done a fair bit of international travel. Without doubt the security is the most unpleasant, obnoxious, unhelpful, degrading - in the US. Other security officials in other countries and in very busy airports can ask the same questions - politely. Professionally. Without getting people's backs up. Most people I know, if faced with international travel and can go via the US or some other way, will opt for another way and avoid the US. They shudder at the misery of American "security." It is not just security - it's the immigration component as well. Under the big Welcome to America signs sit the most unwelcoming and surly officials ever. Are they selected for their grumpiness? After a long international flight which will take several hours and may cross several time zones, tired travellers are willing to cooperate but don't want the suspicious "evil eye" cast upon them by immigration officials. And these people are the "face of America" to tourists. Frankly, faced with such a welcome, I often feel like I'd like to perform a terrorist activity on them, or at least leap across their desk and kick their heads in (and I'm not a violent person, I go with the flow). Contempt breeds contempt. If they did the things they have to do in a professional but pleasant manner, the job would still get done - but without the stale taste of resentment. London Heathrow, for example, is extremely busy and the place bristles with security gadgets and watchful armed police officers - but the officials are polite and don't behave as if everyone were trying to do something wrong. As a result, the passengers are cooperative. And appreciative. Some airport overseas - maybe Australia: Airport official: "You have been randomly selected for ..." Me: "Nah, mate, you've selected me because there isn't anybody else about and you're bored." AO: shrugs and smiles Me: "Let's get on with it then. What do you want me to do?" (activity) Me: "How does this thing work, then?" AO: (explains) And we have a long and pleasant discussion about security, testing devices etc. I felt uplifted. Probably, so did he. Another time, my bags were searched - not in my presence - for an onward flight out of the US - I don't have a problem about that, but I did want to make sure that the breakables in it were still packed carefully. Would they let me check - they could see I had nothing in my hands? No. Would they open the bag again in front of me, and show me? No. Would they do anything to help me? No, and if I touched the contents they would search the bags again. In fact, I think they threatened to arrest me! Weeping with tiredness, I went elsewhere, and at some other place where my bags were again allegedly checked, I found a more helpful official. This one was not American - Ozzie, Brit, something else. He opened my bag and showed me that my breakables were still packed nested in the soft things so that they wouldn't be damaged. Took less than a minute. I will never go to LAX again.

Wow, bet that was really good fun! Well done for confronting the evil so publicly.

Yep, he did that. But to be fair, he did open a Bible and expound on some principles. Initially they were helpful or seemed like he knew something. He spoke confidently and with authority. His teachings were the "hook." I was willing to forgive obvious errors because he taught as no church I'd ever been to. And (unlike himself) I didn't expect him to know it all. And his followers, twiggies, were vibrant, enthusiastic and full of energy. They wanted and expected to see God at work. They glowed with excitement at walking with God. I'd been to plenty of churches beforehand. Dull congregations, might be nice enough people, but no outreach, no desire or enthusiasm. And sermons - might be nice enough but no substance. If you want to know, if you want people excited about God and Godliness; if you want to understand some of the more obscure parts of the Bible...PFAL did that. I think churches and church people have changed a lot in more recent years. Many churches now have very active community programmes and/or get involved with dispossessed members of the community. Sermons give a better sense of God, the word in action, whatever. Many in the church though are afraid to speak to neighbours, colleagues...they lack the vibrancy and excitement that Wayfers showed. The church I go to now is very active in building its community; I'm part of several city-wide (denomination-wide) initiatives. And my church minister said: "The main reason people fall into cults [yes, he said cults] is that the church hasn't taught the Bible well enough. For that I apologise." There were many people in this congregation from lots of different backgrounds/denominations, and some had been very badly hurt by legalism, poor teaching, etc. If God's voice is hidden - even and especially in the church - seekers will go where they think they hear His voice. The answer is clear. Teach the Bible. And let those who hear live it and not be ashamed to speak to others. That's the part we can all play in defeating those of TWI ilk.

Well, another great and lively discussion gone . Thanks, Johniam, good deflect. Actually Johniam digresses to a worthwhile discussion on another topic and maybe one of the Mods could split it off and put it elsewhere?