Twinky

The woman that rang VPW every night and he would share the word that he had learned that day with her ... I remember thinking, during the very session of PFAL where he said this, "Don't you share this stuff with your wife? First? Isn't she interested??" But hey, while the thought is still forming, the next class segment is starting ... no time to pursue such an idea... Given the connotations in this thread concerning That Woman... Dotsie should have hit him with the frying pan a few times. Or whatever the Ohio equivalent was for chastising a straying husband.

The disgusting old lecher! Even if he were so "spiritually mature that he was above such earthly matters," he knew others who weren't so "spiritually mature" would be about and there he was, putting a stumbling block in their way. (As well as ignoring just a few other scriptures.) If his body (or covering it) meant so little maybe he should have joined a nudist colony ... but no, probably no gorgeous young women there, just more wizened old prunes like himself. Disgusting old lecher!!!

Hey, welcome back Just Thinking. Do stick around. A lot of people disappeared when it was announced that the forum would close so it has been rather quiet here since then.

JJ, you were right and they were absolutely wrong. Empathy and TWI are poles apart. Oil and water. The BoT doesn't know what compassion means, and would think that what Jesus did and how he conducted his lifestyle, would make him a real loser. Jesus was "moved with compassion." He "wept" at the plight of those who were oppressed. What a useless wuss! He should have stood immovably and harshly confronted their failure to put God first. Told the man with the epileptic son it was his believing that was at fault. Told Peter his MiL's fever was her own fault. Told Mary and Martha to get their act together and Lazarus had died because of his failure to believe and they should put it behind them. Thank God he didn't do any of those things!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I remember a Corpsman once telling me in my early days, "You've got to really love people." Context was in relation to being Corps, can't remember the details now. He was kind and thoughtful, that I do remember. He was English, would have trained in the US but this was at Gartmore. Funny now, in context of then being subject to ultra-legalist ultra-bully Geer. I wonder what became of that Corpsman? Anyway - really loving people is such a far cry from bullying them.

Well I just got back from overseas travel, got myself scanned at Heathrow and was selected for a "random patdown" (I look like a terrorist??) but no probs. No probs anywhere at all in fact. I had a small nail clipper in my bag which I had asked about before I started my outward journey and was told it was okay. On the way back it was picked up in the bagscan in Hong Kong and they wanted to see it - but when produced, there was no objection. At Heathrow the person after me had a 250ml bottle of contact lens saline (in a bag with other CL stuff) but the official allowed that through (limit is 100ml). Each time my plane stopped (for refueling) all the passengers were made to get off and instead of going (being herded) into the transit lounge, we were all sent back through that country's security. Seemed weird, having been checked before getting on the plane in the first place, to be checked again for the continuation of the same flight in the same plane. Not sure what this would achieve. Relief of boredom for waiting passengers??? The bagscan equipment is pretty sophisticated, and shows different kinds of things in different colors (clothing one color, paper another etc). I chatted whilst I waited for my bags to be scanned. The officials were pleasant to talk to and explained what they were doing, not in detail, but friendly enough. You can tell I wasn't in the US. I would have been treated as a terrorist just for asking the question. Actually I asked if they'd ever found anything suspicious in the bagscan and one official said yes but would not elaborate. Australia is planning to introduce some equipment that gives a better body scan but they took great pains to emphasize that it wouldn't make people look "naked" as US scanning equipment does.

JJ, I think we all have a (or several)weak point(s) somewhere and some aspect of twig-love fulfilled the need we had - everyone wants to feel accepted and loved. Once accepted into a twig, however, the pressure mounted to "take the class" and so off we went on the slippery road to non-acceptance and conditional love. Sure bullying might have been a factor for some, but there are many other aspects of family/"group" life that predispose towards wanting to be with a group of people who appear friendly, don't badmouth others, and are genuinely enthusiastic about life.

Along with other WC, one of my RoA tasks was cleaning the porta-potties. And d'ya know what? I loved doing it. I loved making those things a place that visitors could feel comfortable and happy ("really blessed") about using. Dirty smelly loos ruin too many events. The thought of being seated at head table for doing that, and of LCM or any of the other head honchos pouring water in my glass, is hilarious!!! :biglaugh: Now you remind me, the reason WC had to clean the porta potties was "to keep them humble." Remind them that although they might be important "on the field," they needed to be reminded to stay humble. Just another of those hierarchical Way things that apply to some and not to others. It wasn't the branch and limb coords who needed reminding of humility. It was the BoT.

A thankful heart goes a long way to help one's spiritual walk. Not thanks by rote (legalism) but real acknowledgment of God's blessing in one's life. TWI had spiritual hierarchy upside down. They said, "The greatest leader is the greatest servant" but their actions were entirely opposite. Where is the hierarchy for servanthood? If the servant washing the feet of visitors was the lowest grade of servant (as TWI said), perhaps we should have expected VPW, LCM and RFR busily washing the shoes and the feet of Grounds crew? (Yeah, right.)

Interesting perspective, Socks. Especially: 'God "allows" both good and bad to happen.' It might help if every reader of the Bible remembers that s/he comes at it from his/her own cultural perspective - as they do everything else in the world. If you've traveled abroad you'll be aware of this. Even between similar cultures. The perspectives of (say) an American and (say) a Japanese person and (say) a person from Nuie or Borneo (yes, those are real places) are miles apart. Culturally and physically. But who's to say which is right? Best? Different balances, because different needs. This difference in ways of thinking often plays out where there is an indigenous group of people with immigrant populations (think: native Americans of all kinds, and current US population(s); aboriginal Australians followed by current mostly western-thinking population. There can be immense gaps in the perception of how land (in particular) is held, in spiritual / creation beliefs and in family ties/duty. Result: conflict, stress, disputes over land, oppression, perceived injustice. When learning a foreign language there are often words that don't translate exactly; how much more a problem that is when we deal with translations of the Bible that are culturally, historically, and in language far from our own. I do know S@ngat B@ins (ex WC) still teaches a lot of PFAL-type material in India but it's slanted rather differently because the people's way of thinking is different. (His own background, too.) It would be interesting to have a perspective from someone like him on the idiom of permission.

I say it's fine to memorize Bible verses. But not just the verse: the whole context of the verse needs to be memorized and understood. The "heart behind it." Too many didn't and don't know even the verse either side, much less the context. (I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me ... means I can do anything I want, drive a bus, succeed in my exams without studying, be the Prez of (whatever), yada yada. Or does it? Maybe it means I can get through any situation, rags or riches, with Christ...that's something different.) The verse itself should then bring to mind a whole body of helpful and supportive scripture, and epitomize the wisdom in the whole context And a comprehensible language (a contemporary version) is quite possibly better than KJV. When you don't know the context, that's when cherry picking kicks in.

That salt covenant thing was about putting people into even more oppression and servitude. I re-examined my salt covt at graduation and consider I was "salted" to serve God, was then, still am now. I do it for the pleasure and exhilaration of doing so, of helping others. I was not and am not salted to serve anyone or anything that usurps God's place.

Dunno, mstar, might be pouring more good money after money badly spent! I don't know what the householder does with ash, whether garden or garbage. I take the view that the contents are "purified by fire" (so long as the woodburner is hot enough, and it does get hot!!) so the ash should be "purified" ... anyway there is enough paper content to light a good many fires, all through the winter I should think. It would be good to revisit my research paper. I have often thought about it. No ministry "research" about that topic at all so I don't see it as contaminated, just my own sheer exploration and enjoyment of the whole of the Bible. I found the first and second drafts of my paper (marked "exemplary" in all respects except for use of ministry materials, what does that say!) but there was only ever one original and it disappeared into the depths of HQ and I've never seen it since. With a wider choice of views and study materials now available to me, I might change my mind a bit ... but the core was about God's tender care for all aspects of life, and therefore living with integrity, and saying and doing the same thing. What true leadership is about. And living with integrity shouldn't change. Hey, suggestions please on the best way to dispose of hundreds of SNS tapes and video tapes. Do they burn? - I don't want to set the house on fire or asphyxiate anyone! Would take ages to pull all the tapes from the cassettes and even then the contents aren't destroyed, there's just a big mess of tangled tape.

VPW's funeral...I never heard anything about that. What did happen there, anyway? I thought it was a cremation with the ashes in or under the fountain?

Sorry, excie, didn't look to see if you were mentioned, but I'm sure you will forgive me for not looking again. I avoided that "Birth to Corps" paper (thank God). If I'd had to do one, I think it would have been a selective version. Some things are just ... private. Not that I have any big secrets or truly dreadful things that happened to me. I'm really glad I didn't have to do that. I am very thankful to both my parents, who did their honest best even though it was a bit hard and difficult (for all of us) at times. They laid the groundwork that enabled God to build in my life. Two boxfuls of junk, I mean Corps notes and syllabi and such like. Including the contents of a few books (like R&E). I have never destroyed a book before. It was a weird thing to do.

I just biffed about 4 copies of "Christian Etiquette." And "The Art of Followship" (Donna M - how to follow one's husband) . And a whole series on a wife being a crown to her husband, an adornment to him...not really about the wife herself, though I only glanced at them. It was a different era, but if Dotty'd stood up to VPW a bit more, all our lives would have been different. Either no Way ministry at all, or one of a proper decent flavor.

Agh, thought I had finished and the next day found 6 Corps notes spiral binders that I had not burned. And then my friend who has been storing my materials has brought up from the cellar 5 boxes of stuff - books, class materials, ring binders for this and that, photos from classes(and yes, the Advanced Class Special was in 1992) - ugh, too much. I have filled two great big cardboard boxes with the stuff from the binders and the notebooks and other materials. I was interested to find a pamphlet, "Forgers of the Word," by VPW. And I thought, that really is the kettle calling the pot black. And some books ... who wants Uncle Harry (biography)? Well, too bad, I have torn the cover off and recycled the contents as paper and the cover will go as cardboard. Likewise with some other books. But there are some books worth keeping, non-Way stuff. And a little bit of stuff I'm still undecided about. And I found the rest of my journals, which I will keep. Somehow that seems important. At least, right now. If only to remember the bizarre stuff that happened. Even though the journals put the best most positive face on what was happening and try to express events as a learning curve and not the desperate misery that they sometimes were. Excie, the bizarre letters ... none to me directly but the general tenor of some of the correspondence to WC is ... bizarre. And in the paper recycling box, LOL.

As to the borrowed desk and other props, I don't see a problem with that. Anyone filming borrows all the time to get the effect they want for the presentation. Or hiring the Big Top for RoA. Or hiring any other equipment. However, if the stuff was borrowed "on approval" for a short period and then returned as unwanted - that's a different thing. That's like hiring props without paying the hire fee. Like Hap says, "slimy." Not quite right. Not quite the fine Christian example that should be set. What's the problem with prefabricated houses? Such have been around since time immemorial. Pre-fab houses (constructed off site and reassembled on-site) have been around in the UK since ... 100s? 1200s? Standard mode of construction in the 1500s, and some of those buildings are still in use! Somehow I doubt the pre-fabs at HQ will have been built to last that long ... <_< The grounds (and the interiors of the buildings) were kept immaculate when I was there. Over-clean, really. That's cut down a lot since practically everyone has left and there aren't enough bods to do all the necessary jobs, never mind the unnecessary ones. Great expression in the UK, especially in the north: "Fur coat and no knickers." All for show, and nothing of substance when it comes to it.

It took a long time to burn it all (such a lot of time and effort invested in writing the bloody notes in the first place!!). And, Rejoice, the reason I did it was exactly because I didn't want anybody else getting polluted by reading it. It was a difficult decision, OB, very like mourning, though mourning for the death of decent relationships that never flowered as they should. And for the hurt in the lives of all of us with honest hearts who were so deceived and ripped apart and hurt. Once I'd made the decision, the act was quite easy. I believe there are some books somewhere; these haven't been returned to me yet. All the PFAL books, collaterals, and later material. LCM's Rise & Expansion book. Lotsa money invested there. Will I read any of these again? Nah. An ex-Wayfer friend lent me one of the collaterals for some reason, and JCNG. I couldn't get past the first page. I think the tapes have been disposed of long ago. In particular, AoS and Mr Leotard's egotism. I'm free - and staying that way.

The deed is done. All those notes...what a huge pile. It has kept the woodburner busy for quite a number of hours. All ash now. Maybe the ash will be of some use...improve the soil quality in the garden. As long as a Way tree does not decide to grow in it. LOL

We got to see The Last of the Mohicans, which was all about teamwork and never giving up. To go with it, we also got an Indian corn cob, without any instruction of what to do with it. LCM had some little statue (or was it a painting?) which showed a posse of Indians (native Americans) all following one another but looking in different directions - "looking out for each other." My recollection is that he wasn't quite as respectful of real human American Indians.

JJ, that's funny. Didn't know Howard was still alive. Do you suppose they're going to have to report to Rosalie before every time they have sex??? (Sorry for grossing everyone out)

They let me off the leash. Well, physically. I was stuck in the dog kennel though. Some time later, I let my mind and heart off the leash. AND I'M FREE. FREE!!!!!!

Not a dream, more like one of those very strange weird psychedelic colored whirly things when you eat too much spicy curry too late at night.

Thanks, Sky and OldSkool. Albatross... God has given me so much more now that my head is better in order. I see things at the Cafe and think, I have notes about that, I don't think that what so-and-so says is quite what happened. But really, what does it matter? A bit wrong, or a lot wrong? I don't care to argue about the past. I look forward to the future. Every day with God is a new beginning. A new beginning implies also an end to something. I figure, if it's important, or really real, God can teach me again, or remind me, or ... or whatever. He doesn't need contaminated notes to remind him, LOL.