Twinky

Someone who doesn’t post here sent me a note with the following: The book is easiest to read on the first link. Not a nice man….

Well, I'd rather like to know where it's from, too. Doesn't sound like the JR that I knew and worked with for a long time. He can spell better than that, too.

Roy, he went through a "learning curve" all right. He started out wanting to save the souls of Jews and convert them to his idea of Christianity. When they didn't follow him, he turned on them. Denounced them and wanted them dead. He learned to hate. Was it his ego that was hurt? Was it because he genuinely thought they were incorrigible? Whatever, his words against Jews are vitriolic. Vile. Inciting others to violence. Not full of the grace that he spouted and claimed was all that was needed. No grace at all.

I found this online: I'd say VPW failed at pretty much all of this. Well...there was observable fruit but not the kind of fruit that most would expect to produce. Just putrid fruit. Homiletics principles

Not entirely sure which forum this ought to be in so if Mods want to move it, that’s fine by me. We’ve all heard of Martin Luther and his valiant stand against the corrupt Catholic church, and the 95 theses that he nailed to the church door, and how he didn’t want to found any new religion, just wanted people to understand the Bible properly, haven’t we? Yep, didn't we all watch that poor-quality video about the life of Luther? If you were in rez, you saw it – maybe several times. (Didn't Luther make an appearance (I mean, wasn't he referred to) in PFAL? I really can't remember, don't care either.) Oh, how the bold VPW who only wanted to share the real truth of the gospel /sarc/ compared himself to that great man who stood firmly for God and against the corrupt church. Now I just today found out something else about Luther. Something that VPW never told us, nor was it pointed out in that film. But it does fit with something else that VPW and his coterie promoted. Extracted from Wikipedia The Jewish Virtual Library (a division of The American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise) (whatever that might be) has the kindness to put his views in context for the period, but quotes some pretty nasty stuff: (Oh I wish you could read it in the original!) Jewish Virtual Library And what does the lovely VPW do? Pushes The Myth of the Six Million and tells us all those tales of murdered Jews were exaggerated and at most there were only a million. (Only!) (If there were only one person, it would be too many.) So…the MOGFODAT wasn’t so very different from that ancient bigot that he got us to equate himself with, then. Does anyone else here know this about Luther? And what about any of Luther's other views? I think I’m going to post this in Open because I’d rather it became a discussion about Martin Luther than VPW (but it’ll probably become that anyway)

Waysider, the article you linked contained this sentence: "Every employer has an anti- harassment policy to comply with laws." And of course some groups are specially protected. Yes, we have laws in the UK. Some better than others. Policies we must have. It's difficult to take a case to the Employment Tribunal, and stressful. Many prefer just to give up quietly and find other jobs, places to be. It always takes people standing up to bullies, people promoting a culture of decency, to ensure that rights, policies, procedures, anti-discrimination, etc are carried out properly. And bullies ... bully. Intimidate. Question is: do you assert your rights, or support those who are asserting their rights? Or do you turn the other way - "not notice" that it's happening - for fear of consequences to yourself? (FYI I've worked in several environments like this. It's really unpleasant. Made me very ill, in one place. But nothing you could actually put your finger on and say, it's unreasonable, as a single act. But cumulatively... I wussed out then, low level grumbling with all the other staff. But now? Maybe I'd deal with things differently. Or maybe not.)

I attend two churches and know of goings-on in several others. They ALL have child protection policies and appointed Child Safety Officers who I'm quite sure would treat any allegations of abuse very seriously. I am confident that complaints would be listened to and acted upon. ... I find that very reassuring - coming from TWI, you can see why. In addition, most business organisations seem to have such policies and in places I've worked, complaints are taken very seriously. Too seriously, sometimes. It befits all of us to be watchful of abuse of any kind and to see that action is taken to prevent it. You and me. All of us. If you see someone bullied in your workplace, what do you do? Like those janitors - turn a blind eye? Or report it and stand fast in the face of perhaps some abuse yourself? How confident do you feel about anti-abuse policies and procedures in your church, your workplace? If you're not happy about any procedures - or there isn't one - start working NOW to get better procedures and policies established. Otherwise, you're passively assenting to the abuse. Which makes you an abuser. The culture in your workplace - is partly about YOU in your workplace, your church, whatever. Help to make it a good one.

That many, huh, Waysider?

Eyesopen (I think it was) started a thread on this a couple of years ago. It went for a couple of pages. You might be able to find it - I can't - it was interesting and several people posted about remarkable incidents where they had broken down in the middle of intersections and strangers seemed to just arrive, push them out of the way, and when looked for afterwards - couldn't be found. And like incidents.

The trouble with TWI was/is, if you like - that there isn't enough socialism. It's all one-way. Sure people can walk through the way woods - but when it comes to genuine care of the individuals walking through the woods - it wasn't there. Like giving a decent wage; giving opportunity to flourish, develop one's abilities; respecting what the other(s) (the peons) could bring. Like being supportive when there was inability, illness, distress. Like working together for the common good, instead of for the good of the top guys. Never mind working together for the glory of God which is what the peons were told they were doing. "Animal Farm," anyone? Sounds to me like some of you are confusing socialism with communism, which it certainly isn't. But if we start talking about that, this thread will get banished to the now defunct politics forum and we shall all be lined up against a wall and shot by the moderators.

Nothing wrong with "socialism" and in fact there is a lot right with that, and quite a lot wrong with being so "individual" that you forget your fellow human beings. Man was never designed to be alone, right? we need each other! But that need is one of inter-dependence not dependence. And it's certainly not achieved, not never ever, no, by bullying into submission, and by threats and sanctions that have no scriptural basis whatsoever. God loves us. Loves!!! And he loves it when we work together with Him and with each other, as fellow-laborers. And he expects us to be smart laborers, able to fulfill a task entrusted to us with minimal guidelines (that's why he gave us brains). He doesn't micro-manage us. Waddya know, not only do I not have to live life in 15 min increments, it doesn't even matter if I turn up to church 15 minutes late. I'm still greatly welcomed. The sky doesn't fall on my head. In fact, it doesn't even matter if I don't turn up at all. God still loves me and so do the people in the church. BTW Sky although I take issue with your second post (post no 3) I completely agree with your first post.

No such experiences, and nobody I know has, either, except a few who are decidedly flaky and possibly smoke/ingest/... other things. I don't believe the dead are alive. Yet. But they will be. In some form that is not yet clear. Just as birth is a change from one situation (for want of a better word) in life to another, so I believe that death is also a change from one situation to another. But not necessarily instantly.

WW, that's not quite what this particular thread is about. That topic has been discussed many times.

From the first book Shaz links to: Special offer: free snake oil with every book purchased!!

God bless you and have a wonderful day.

No thanks, Kermit.

I've seen that, OldSkool. What I want is the original article, which the "New" item purports to critique. I want to know what HWF says, not what someone says HWF says. In the same way that there has been a lot of misquoting (including by JohnJ) of WPV & TWI material, no doubt HWF may also be being misrepresented. "Keeds, I wish you could read it in the original!" I suppose I could go further, and say I want to read what VPW says...but frankly enough of his stuff/plagiarism has passed before my eyes. And if I had Rs10 there is probably a better use for it.

John, have you a link to the article you are quoting? It's nowhere obvious. HWF mentions in several places it is reprinting Dilemma. It costs 10 rupees. HWF also attacks the "Islamization" of Indians and everything else that doesn't fit with their viewpoint. The forum appears to have four regular contributors. Or maybe they are the guiding lights. Anyway, not a big player, just a stirrer.

If you want to say this, John, let's have it accurately. Hindu Writers' Forum is a lobby group that appears to be anti-everything and about as fundy as VPW himself. However, HWF itself publishes Dilemma. So that it can knock it down, presumably, as otherwise the book would not be available at all. I did find this link: Dead critic - a supposed letter to an unnamed recipient ("me" - but in a personal capacity, or as representing an organization? "Last Days Harvest Ministries"?) from a writer, Mr. Brahm Dutt Bharti, who passed away on 19.5.1997 (that's 15 years ago, so if this is what John is referring to, it's not really new news). John's initial post on this thread appears to be provocative and unsubstantiated - misinformation about misinformation about misinformation.

OldSkool - I think my "degree" was in Dishroom Studies. It was nice to have time in Study hall but really, what was "taught" at any kind of undergrad level would fit on a piece of toilet paper.

1. A bachelor's degree in some unspecified subject. 2. Another bachelor's degree from an unaccredited organization known to teach...nothing. (Well, people I know from earlier Corps seem to have had the odd useful subject - by the 90s there was nothing worthwhile. Dunno about the 80s or whenever he was there.) 3. Attendance at another organization in a subject that some would consider dubious - and at an organization whose licenses are only acknowledged in a small handful of states. Where did he do his doctorate? His doctor/medical studies? At the third organization - which "licences" practitioners but knows they aren't recognized much? Hmm. I'm filled with confidence. (Maybe I should go and get myself filled with red wine. It's really good for lowering cholesterol.) (True!!)

And where, Raf, is the button for "I burned the bloody things"? ...tapes. Books (I tore up and burned the "Red Thread" and a load of other books). Notes (and notes and notes...) In fact, there is still a box of notes that is this winter's firelighting material. Burned, because I didn't want them in paper recycling or in landfill, in case someone got hold of them, started reading and was gullible enough to want to find out more. I retain some non-TWI publications. And I have my journals. But they're "me" and I can look back and laugh (compassionately) at the sad sad person who wrote them.

Great news, OS. Wonderful that your son is doing well. And God bless (abundantly) the donor. What a wonderfully loving thing to do. There are some really kind, generous, loving people outside TWI. Some of them go to churches and live what they know. Others are just nice people who want to help. Whatever...I can't see anyone at TWI offering their own kidney. They'd just expect you to "build your believing" and condemn you if nothing happened.

Nah. Not dull gray. Black. As in black hole. Sucks everything in, lets nothing out.

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