Twinky

I don't care...they're stuck there. And they ... don't ... care - they're stuck there.

Looks good to me! Steak & kidney pie, or steak & kidney pudding (not quite the same things) are very popular. The pie pastry can be shortcrust or puff (as your recipe). The pudding is made with a suet pastry, the texture of which is quite different. Contents can be the same (still delicious). Brits seem to like pies and pasties. Well - not just Brits.

"Knowledge" puffeth up...

Actually I think it's about the first HONEST thing he's said. All that waffle, all those words ... boils down to this. It doesn't really work like that, John. It's not, you tithe and God give you ten times back. Or whatever you seem to think. You don't need financial resources, you need spiritual resources. You need to LIVE it. And then, you can reach "countless people." It's the lifestyle of GIVING not the lifestyle of GRASPING that wins hearts and minds.

Look good! (Christmas gifts, perhaps?)

You told me what you thought of VPW. I think you'll go a long way, spiritually. May your journey be interesting. You're totally fine, Chockie.

Don't do that, Froggie.

Outie, you go to their website and listen to their music??? :wacko: Can I pray for you to be delivered? (LOL)

WW, wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that VPW modelled TWI on the Worldwide Church of God, what with its radio broadcasts, unorthodox teachings and non-trinitarian stance (initially). Ya gotta hand it to VPW - he really did work hard - at copying what other people did. A master ... (ahem) master forger. So what many of us at the Cafe seem to think of VPW is: Plagiarist Liar Rapist Deceiver/fraudster Glutton/winebibber Greedy for money Adulterous Psychopathic Mysogynist And others of us think: Had the truth Helped me [through PFAL] get my life on track Didn't do the scandalous things alleged of him Anything else?

Unfortunately, Johniam, his teachings are not.

Outie, you're right, there's a lot of careful research materials out there. And loads of stuff that we never even knew about. The Didache, for instance (what? say most of you). I always hoped to learn (at TWI) something about the Dead Sea Scrolls. (Fool, I thought the teaching might be something legit!) It's quite well known in Christian circles that JC wasn't born in Dec but in autumn/fall some time - some think Sept, some think Oct. In fact, quite a lot of our "special knowledge" is quite well known. There is some criticism of the wider Christian church due here. If the churches taught better, disseminated information better, didn't just deliver the standard "pat" doctrine, then we wouldn't have fallen into the TWI trap quite so easily. I went to the Salvation Army with my Mum a couple of years ago for their Christmas service. The usual gospel reading, including a talk about the wise men visiting (I think they made the point that the wise men and the shepherds weren't there together) - and the preacher took it just that bit further - went on to talk about the "Massacre of the Innocents" - the first martyrs to die for Jesus the Christ - the young boys who were all murdered by Herod when he realized the wise men had tricked him. Did TWI ever talk of that? Nothing I ever heard - just the "special knowledge" that JC was born in Sept or Oct or whenever they say. Waysider, I wonder if there was anything that VPW didn't plagiarize?

“You tell me what you think of Jesus Christ, and I’ll tell you how far you’ll go spiritually!” boasted some man we’ve all heard of. Well, that man went on to tell us what to think of Jesus Christ … and then managed to hide him from view. So that we couldn’t really think of Jesus Christ himself because he was lost behind veils of pseudo-Greek, egomania, you name it. We were taught to read the words of the Bible, but the true heart of the gospel became obscured and the glass through which we saw, became darker and darker. Now I have a different question to pose. “You tell me what you think of Victor-Paul Wierwille, and I’ll tell you how far you’ll go spiritually!” Do you read the Bible, or PFAL books? Which takes precedence in your life? How widely, how deeply, have you read the Bible? What do you know of, say, Obadiah, Habakkuk, Joel, the other lesser-known books – that you’ve read and thought about for yourself? (I name these because there aren’t many TWI teachings on these.) Do you feel comfortable reading what other commentators, scholars, academicians, say about topics in the Bible? - Scholars and academicians who have years of careful study behind them; have submitted their works for peer review; have considered and discussed with others? Or do you think they’re all “tripped out” or “tricked out” and their works deserve to be hauled off to the dump? Can you listen to a sermon – say, on TV or radio – by some non-Way preacher – and not start to get critical about a turn of phrase, or think you know more about a word the preacher used? Or do you confine your reading to collaterals and Way-approved materials? “You tell me what you think of Victor-Paul Wierwille, and I’ll tell you how far you’ll go spiritually!”

Earlier than 1994 - earlier 90s. Interesting...we had "uncle" this person and that person. But their spouses weren't "aunt" - Aunt Imogene, Aunt Rhoda. Even the spouse of "our father in the word" wasn't coat-tailed as "our mother in the Word" but was known as Mrs Wierwille, or more remotely as "the first lady of the Way" (gag). I suppose she was the "first" as in the wife of the founder, but not "first" as in the wife of the president - just plain arrogant, that is. Not even first among equals. I believe God says we are all sons of God. The only precedence in OT patriarchal society goes to the eldest son, the first-born, because of expected familial responsibilities in adult life (care of the widow and rest of the members of the family). There isn't that precedence among the NT letters. I believe the position of first-born son of God was taken, hundreds of generations before Wierwille was thought of, in human terms. Our brothers VPW, Mrs W, "uncles" Howard and Harry - are just that. Siblings, brothers. Just brothers. And naughty ones, at that. With no particular precedence.

I recall working one RoA with a lass who told me that listening to the music had really healed her. She had been badly hurt in the past and couldn't cope with teaching/preaching, but the songs when she'd heard them enough really helped her. But she didn't say what songs. Some of the early Way musicians stuff was good - I got in "late" and got some near-bootlegged copies as I believe by the time I heard them, they were on the banished list. A song that comes to mind is "Many Roads" which had a very catchy tune. Some of the stuff was dire...Singing Ladies of the Way. As to music, I did get a set of the then-current SATW music printed and accompanied by tapes with the tunes on - that would be for the basic SATW songbook without the stick-in songs that went with each year's themes. And yeah, SATW was stuff that was public domain, out of copyright - or TWI copyrighted. My TC wrote a song once; it was lovely and we enjoyed singing it in our twig. She sang it one year at RoA, early 90s, and it was grabbed for Way Musicians, who took the tune, changed some of the words and demanded that was the version that was sung. She was generous about it...said what they'd changed improved the song...it didn't.

Now might be an appropriate time to mention "The Screwtape Letters"

Too right, Steve. And most parents teach that to their kids, from an early age. LCM did bang on sometimes about there being no "rights" without "responsibility". He addressed that to wider worldly issues but thinking about it now, in Wayworld, we had neither rights nor responsibility. (And of course I understand the darker underbelly of TWI now. Yet - rights to help oneself to Way women? But no responsibility towards them!!) And yet, it was in Wayworld that I heard - God trusts you, he has entrusted his Word to you. It's called "obedience" and "meekness," Steve. Two words that continue to make me cringe. "You control your thinking, what goes on between your ears." Didn't they say that? (Of course, they meant, control your thinking to think only what we say you can think!) Break out, folks! Your brain - you use it!!! The most responsible thing any innie can do now is to THINK and consider what you're really obedient and meek to. Then BEAT THE FEET! Grow up!! God will never leave you, never abandon you, never mark and avoid you. It can be tough outside Wayworld, but nothing like as tough as staying complacently within Wayworld.

I think of this world a bit like a womb. A fetus in a womb has no idea of the magnificence of what's available outside its closed environment. Nor of how magnificent and wonderfully capable its body really is, or rather will be, outside its closed environment. Just as we really don't know (we only have a glimpse of) what's available outside our closed environment. And we only have a glimpse of how magnificent and wonderfully capable the new body will be.

Ham... What've you been smoking? Or drinking?? Looks like you were having a nice little party by yourself last night!

Oh funny, Outandabout. But no doubt their behavior got them a reprimand. It certainly would have done when I was in rez! I wonder, if any of the head honchos are reading this (hello, Mr Linder!) if they have any idea how infantile and yes, degrading, some of the things they compelled us to do actually are? Sure we need to leave false pretenses and pomposity behind, act a bit silly sometime, but adopting other false pretenses - that we're just kids - is just that, pretense. Can you imagine Rosie having a (nice little) twig in her house and leading adults into songs like those mentioned here, with appropriate actions? Like "Going on a Bear Hunt"? "If You're Happy [blessed] and You Know it, Clap your Hands"? Etc? Mmmmmm.....

Cutting edge pedagogy ... now that sounds ... interesting. (Steve, I do enjoy your informative and interesting posts.)

You could be right about that.

Not just children ... little children. Surprised they didn't give us coloring books and craft scissors with rounded ends to cut out pretty pictures with. Any teacher aims to bring out the best in his/her students, whatever their age. Stretch the learners, encourage them to think for themselves. TWI on the other hand damped down whatever thinking ability we had and sought not to develop talents and abilities, nor even to focus them in TWI's own preferred direction - but rather, to squash them altogether. In my time in rez I saw so many talented, caring, big-hearted people oppressed and wasted in truly menial roles until all joy in serving had been eradicated. Then, they were let loose on the field. No, Sky, don't think I agree with you. I think we were treated worse than children.

Strikes me that the copy WC might have more participants than the current in rez WC. And the copy WOW program more participants than the current Fellow Laborers / WOW original program.

Biblically, aren't we partakers of eternal life? (= live forever). Don't think that that ever referred to the physical bodies that we now inhabit. Well, unless you are Rosie, of course, looks like her believing is right up there, protecting her physical body. Just think how gorgeous she will look, in another 50 years.

Oh Kit, so glad you found this thread again. We have new people since it was started; perhaps they can add their stories?