Twinky

WW, wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that VPW modelled TWI on the Worldwide Church of God, what with its radio broadcasts, unorthodox teachings and non-trinitarian stance (initially). Ya gotta hand it to VPW - he really did work hard - at copying what other people did. A master ... (ahem) master forger. So what many of us at the Cafe seem to think of VPW is: Plagiarist Liar Rapist Deceiver/fraudster Glutton/winebibber Greedy for money Adulterous Psychopathic Mysogynist And others of us think: Had the truth Helped me [through PFAL] get my life on track Didn't do the scandalous things alleged of him Anything else?

Unfortunately, Johniam, his teachings are not.

Outie, you're right, there's a lot of careful research materials out there. And loads of stuff that we never even knew about. The Didache, for instance (what? say most of you). I always hoped to learn (at TWI) something about the Dead Sea Scrolls. (Fool, I thought the teaching might be something legit!) It's quite well known in Christian circles that JC wasn't born in Dec but in autumn/fall some time - some think Sept, some think Oct. In fact, quite a lot of our "special knowledge" is quite well known. There is some criticism of the wider Christian church due here. If the churches taught better, disseminated information better, didn't just deliver the standard "pat" doctrine, then we wouldn't have fallen into the TWI trap quite so easily. I went to the Salvation Army with my Mum a couple of years ago for their Christmas service. The usual gospel reading, including a talk about the wise men visiting (I think they made the point that the wise men and the shepherds weren't there together) - and the preacher took it just that bit further - went on to talk about the "Massacre of the Innocents" - the first martyrs to die for Jesus the Christ - the young boys who were all murdered by Herod when he realized the wise men had tricked him. Did TWI ever talk of that? Nothing I ever heard - just the "special knowledge" that JC was born in Sept or Oct or whenever they say. Waysider, I wonder if there was anything that VPW didn't plagiarize?

“You tell me what you think of Jesus Christ, and I’ll tell you how far you’ll go spiritually!” boasted some man we’ve all heard of. Well, that man went on to tell us what to think of Jesus Christ … and then managed to hide him from view. So that we couldn’t really think of Jesus Christ himself because he was lost behind veils of pseudo-Greek, egomania, you name it. We were taught to read the words of the Bible, but the true heart of the gospel became obscured and the glass through which we saw, became darker and darker. Now I have a different question to pose. “You tell me what you think of Victor-Paul Wierwille, and I’ll tell you how far you’ll go spiritually!” Do you read the Bible, or PFAL books? Which takes precedence in your life? How widely, how deeply, have you read the Bible? What do you know of, say, Obadiah, Habakkuk, Joel, the other lesser-known books – that you’ve read and thought about for yourself? (I name these because there aren’t many TWI teachings on these.) Do you feel comfortable reading what other commentators, scholars, academicians, say about topics in the Bible? - Scholars and academicians who have years of careful study behind them; have submitted their works for peer review; have considered and discussed with others? Or do you think they’re all “tripped out” or “tricked out” and their works deserve to be hauled off to the dump? Can you listen to a sermon – say, on TV or radio – by some non-Way preacher – and not start to get critical about a turn of phrase, or think you know more about a word the preacher used? Or do you confine your reading to collaterals and Way-approved materials? “You tell me what you think of Victor-Paul Wierwille, and I’ll tell you how far you’ll go spiritually!”

Earlier than 1994 - earlier 90s. Interesting...we had "uncle" this person and that person. But their spouses weren't "aunt" - Aunt Imogene, Aunt Rhoda. Even the spouse of "our father in the word" wasn't coat-tailed as "our mother in the Word" but was known as Mrs Wierwille, or more remotely as "the first lady of the Way" (gag). I suppose she was the "first" as in the wife of the founder, but not "first" as in the wife of the president - just plain arrogant, that is. Not even first among equals. I believe God says we are all sons of God. The only precedence in OT patriarchal society goes to the eldest son, the first-born, because of expected familial responsibilities in adult life (care of the widow and rest of the members of the family). There isn't that precedence among the NT letters. I believe the position of first-born son of God was taken, hundreds of generations before Wierwille was thought of, in human terms. Our brothers VPW, Mrs W, "uncles" Howard and Harry - are just that. Siblings, brothers. Just brothers. And naughty ones, at that. With no particular precedence.

I recall working one RoA with a lass who told me that listening to the music had really healed her. She had been badly hurt in the past and couldn't cope with teaching/preaching, but the songs when she'd heard them enough really helped her. But she didn't say what songs. Some of the early Way musicians stuff was good - I got in "late" and got some near-bootlegged copies as I believe by the time I heard them, they were on the banished list. A song that comes to mind is "Many Roads" which had a very catchy tune. Some of the stuff was dire...Singing Ladies of the Way. As to music, I did get a set of the then-current SATW music printed and accompanied by tapes with the tunes on - that would be for the basic SATW songbook without the stick-in songs that went with each year's themes. And yeah, SATW was stuff that was public domain, out of copyright - or TWI copyrighted. My TC wrote a song once; it was lovely and we enjoyed singing it in our twig. She sang it one year at RoA, early 90s, and it was grabbed for Way Musicians, who took the tune, changed some of the words and demanded that was the version that was sung. She was generous about it...said what they'd changed improved the song...it didn't.

Now might be an appropriate time to mention "The Screwtape Letters"

Too right, Steve. And most parents teach that to their kids, from an early age. LCM did bang on sometimes about there being no "rights" without "responsibility". He addressed that to wider worldly issues but thinking about it now, in Wayworld, we had neither rights nor responsibility. (And of course I understand the darker underbelly of TWI now. Yet - rights to help oneself to Way women? But no responsibility towards them!!) And yet, it was in Wayworld that I heard - God trusts you, he has entrusted his Word to you. It's called "obedience" and "meekness," Steve. Two words that continue to make me cringe. "You control your thinking, what goes on between your ears." Didn't they say that? (Of course, they meant, control your thinking to think only what we say you can think!) Break out, folks! Your brain - you use it!!! The most responsible thing any innie can do now is to THINK and consider what you're really obedient and meek to. Then BEAT THE FEET! Grow up!! God will never leave you, never abandon you, never mark and avoid you. It can be tough outside Wayworld, but nothing like as tough as staying complacently within Wayworld.

I think of this world a bit like a womb. A fetus in a womb has no idea of the magnificence of what's available outside its closed environment. Nor of how magnificent and wonderfully capable its body really is, or rather will be, outside its closed environment. Just as we really don't know (we only have a glimpse of) what's available outside our closed environment. And we only have a glimpse of how magnificent and wonderfully capable the new body will be.

Ham... What've you been smoking? Or drinking?? Looks like you were having a nice little party by yourself last night!

Oh funny, Outandabout. But no doubt their behavior got them a reprimand. It certainly would have done when I was in rez! I wonder, if any of the head honchos are reading this (hello, Mr Linder!) if they have any idea how infantile and yes, degrading, some of the things they compelled us to do actually are? Sure we need to leave false pretenses and pomposity behind, act a bit silly sometime, but adopting other false pretenses - that we're just kids - is just that, pretense. Can you imagine Rosie having a (nice little) twig in her house and leading adults into songs like those mentioned here, with appropriate actions? Like "Going on a Bear Hunt"? "If You're Happy [blessed] and You Know it, Clap your Hands"? Etc? Mmmmmm.....

Cutting edge pedagogy ... now that sounds ... interesting. (Steve, I do enjoy your informative and interesting posts.)

You could be right about that.

Not just children ... little children. Surprised they didn't give us coloring books and craft scissors with rounded ends to cut out pretty pictures with. Any teacher aims to bring out the best in his/her students, whatever their age. Stretch the learners, encourage them to think for themselves. TWI on the other hand damped down whatever thinking ability we had and sought not to develop talents and abilities, nor even to focus them in TWI's own preferred direction - but rather, to squash them altogether. In my time in rez I saw so many talented, caring, big-hearted people oppressed and wasted in truly menial roles until all joy in serving had been eradicated. Then, they were let loose on the field. No, Sky, don't think I agree with you. I think we were treated worse than children.

Strikes me that the copy WC might have more participants than the current in rez WC. And the copy WOW program more participants than the current Fellow Laborers / WOW original program.

Biblically, aren't we partakers of eternal life? (= live forever). Don't think that that ever referred to the physical bodies that we now inhabit. Well, unless you are Rosie, of course, looks like her believing is right up there, protecting her physical body. Just think how gorgeous she will look, in another 50 years.

Oh Kit, so glad you found this thread again. We have new people since it was started; perhaps they can add their stories?

The RC church has given this priest a loan to hire a top-flight lawyer. I wonder if the RC church will make a grant to the boy/his parents for counseling for the boy? Everyone's entitled to a defence. But how about the priest gets honest? Honest to God first, then to everyone else? Wonder how many parishes this priest has been shunted around, to cover up previous allegations? Maybe appropriate justice would be to allow the boy to launch a mighty kick at the priest in his "privates."

Another sad case. Glad it got thrown out - she got costs against the church! And not only the church that abused this woman. At a "splinter group" led by that leader's son ... the son is facing charges of sex abuse of children in the congregation. blogspot Should we invite her over here, for coffee and cake? From BGBCs statement of faith: V. We Believe In Spiritual Authority. God Himself has established order in every area of our lives, and the church is no exception. God in Scripture has clearly given us the structure of authority for the church. Christ is the head of the church and He mediates His rule through the shepherding of godly elders (pastors) (5). These elders (pastors), having a high view of God and Scripture, being devoted to the preaching, teaching and practicing of sound doctrine, and being examples of personal holiness before the congregation, are responsible to lead the church. The Bible teaches that the congregation is accountable to the elders (pastors) and that the elders (pastors) are accountable to God. Therefore, all decision-making authority is vested in the elders (pastors), who shepherd the church (6). RED FLAG! RED FLAG!

I always enjoy watching the Paralympics. Those are people that are less than perfect - "visual, physical or intellectual impairments" - they're people who could easily say - I can't do that, oh look at me, I'm a victim. But they don't. They say: heck, I'll still play basketball, even from a wheelchair. I'll still run 100m even though I have artificial legs. I'll still swim even though I'm autistic. I'm blind but I'll still throw you over my shoulder (judo). Did you see the runner Pistorius, whose legs are amputated below the knee? He insists on running with able-bodied runners - doesn't get enough competition from disabled runners. And commentators complained that his blades might give him an unfair advantage!!!!!!! Pistorius at the Olympics Paralympics

I was in rez a lot later than most of you posting here. In one series of Corps teachings (I think it must have been Corps not SNS - OldSkool's wife might remember, she might have been around about that time) LCM spent very much time "teaching" about meanings for the different words used for "evil." One such word was poneros; another kakos. One being "unproductive" evil (ie that caused by not doing something that you ought to be doing - passive evil. The other being "corrosive" evil - actively doing wrong. Don't ask me which was which, and if there are other Greek words. I think maybe there were. All rubbish, probably. Anyway, the point I wanted to make is, how much more unproductive can TWI be? With control-meister Rosie ensuring that nothing except highly scripted stuff is ever allowed to escape those hallowed, sorry hollowed, walls, how much more "unproductive evil" emanates from that place? (Not to mention the "corrosive evil" when something does escape.) Patriot, you might remember something of this too. Unless you also choose to forget it!!

And these people thought they could teach us "Greek" etc. They don't understand English. And their errors in understanding the English language (in particular verb construction and tenses) pass all the way down until PFAL grads somehow reinvent themselves as knowing grammar, sentence construction etc...because they heard something in PFAL or copied it from some other person up the Way food chain. Blind leading the blind...and so they all fall into misunderstandings and total ignorance...whilst all the time thinking themselves wise. I don't think there was ever a lack of leadership. It's leadership in an appropriate direction that is lacking.

Steve and Chocky -- exactly! Lynn doesn't even hear what he himself says... doh!

We hear ya, John. That's zackly what we do here at the Cafe. Regarding both categories you identify.

Would you believe it! John Lynn, in his Living Truth newsletter, Aug 2012, said this: What a great answer to my post #15 of a few days ago.