Twinky

Is that their slogan now? Prevailing word TO the world? I thought it was Prevailing word OVER the world. Or maybe just Prevailing word. Craig announced (didn't he?) that the word had gone over the world and now TWI wasn't talking in terms of Word Over the Word but God's Prevailing Word. @ Dabobbada - that's funny!

Newlife, ESV is quite interesting. Gooey...hey, go for it. I hear that Jesus snuggled down under the bedclothes with his bicycle lamp, to read the Bible, LOL.

This man has cost the British legal aid system millions in legal aid. Not to mention the cost of keeping him in prison. Glad you're around to share the burden. He's working your legal aid system now. I gather he isn't to be sent to your special holiday camp in the sun. Pity, he might like it there. A small island in the middle of a shark-infested ocean would be a good alternative. I have no doubt that some in the US will attempt to make a political point out of it. But who, and what point ... maybe both sides will claim (?) him. He might try to claim asylum. He did in the UK, on the basis that his human rights would be breached if sent back to Jordan (where he's a native of) because they might torture him. There's a saying in law that "he who seeks equity must come with clean hands" - don't beg for fairness if you haven't been fair - one can only guess at how many other people's human rights have been breached by and as a result of the (alleged) actions of this man, and others of his ilk. Young men corrupted, others killed, blackmailed or injured; many innocent victims of deliberate killings and bombings; and the damage to the families of those folks. Not a nice man.

This wonderful specimen of a human being (cough) has now pleaded Not Guilty to 11 charges of terrorism, including one of trying to set up a terrorist training camp in Oregon. Abu Hamza in NY He claims to be mentally unfit to plead. Poor soul.

Don't know if this has received much publicity over in the US, but this alleged terrorist has been manipulating the British and European legal systems for years. He's not even a Brit, but abused asylum granted to him, corrupted idealistic young men, preached very evil acts, and has upon his arrest claimed "human rights" to avoid extradition. Abu Hamza At last he is on his way to you folks in the USA. Treat him kindly...more kindly than he treated his victims, whether they be those stupid young idealists (we all know what that was like) or innocent passersby. You're welcome to him. No need to think of sending him back to us.

Calm down, geisha. Switch to decaff. Steve, you're going to spend three hours expounding on this one verse to your profs? Though that of course means that you've spent a good many other hours working everything else in this section of 1 Cor and a good few other places as well. (Three hours...!)

Can't agree with you on that, John. KJV's words are not "meaningless" and in fact are very meaningful. It's just that the meaning of some words has changed over the years, centuries, and one has to get back in 1600s mind-frame...which is quite difficult for many. If one doesn't have a good grasp of today's English language, it's even more difficult. We see that word-meaning change constantly in today's life. "It's wicked!" actually means "It's very good!" Modern versions like The Message, NLT, etc are really easy to read but a bit folksy. For people without a good grasp of English, old English, English grammar, and the underlying languages (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, whatever) (and that's probably most of us) it's quite enlightening to read several versions which helps to shade or nuance the meaning of whole passages of the Bible as well as particular words. i do rather like the more intimate 2nd person singular ("thee" "thou" "thine") in parts of KJV - but then, I grew up using that form of address. It makes some passages so very much more meaningful and intense... stresses one's personal responsibility to do something. Those differences might still be evident in other language versions (French, Spanish, German, ???) No-one in the poll has so far said they regularly read other-language versions except GSG who reads it in Greek.

It seems to have escaped later posters' attention that the original post was 6.5 years ago and the poster made only the one post. One wonders if he ever returned to read any responses. Now some other person (registered some time ago) has leapt into the discussion, making practically the totality of his/her posts on this one thread. Regular posters here have their views, of course, but I wonder if the reason this thread is now up for discussion is that someone is not serious about responses but just wants to cause dispute and trouble. Trolling, in fact.

I rather suspect it was the other way round ... his wife was being bonked by Rosie (as he had bonked so many other men's wives) (now that's justice of a sort, though poetic probably not), and he was being ousted by Rosie and his wife - and that's why he was "so down on women." Johniam, yes, there was stuff about a mother's sphere of influence...but again, one of those things that lip service was paid to but the actuality was different. Husbands were given authority to overrule wives in any situation - and of course everyone was subject to someone higher up the Way tree - so in fact, there was interference from on high and external to the family about how children were being raised. There are posters here who can attest to that and to advice, etc about the raising of their children that really wasn't in the children's best interests ...it's caused some posters to do a runner from TWI.

Ah, she was smarter than him, been around such a long time, gave him enough rope and he hanged himself. Maybe fear of Rosie was why he stamped on incoming women (in-rez then in graduated Corps) so much, so they'd never get near the string never mind the rope. He did listen to Rosie when she made "suggestions" or sought to dissuade him from some things he wanted to do.

All the trustees always had a nominee in case they themselves were incapacitated, died suddenly, etc (of course...where would the revelation be that one was going to die in a car/plane crash...but I digress). I remember LCM announcing this one day - early 90s - he announced his successor with a big run-up - you'll be surprised, etc etc, Yes, It's Rev Rivenbark! Yes, it's a woman [gulp] - and he went on in some way about women having a ministry. I don't remember the words he used, only the tone of voice and the way he presented it. This is that same LCM that constantly denigrated women (especially smart women) who showed any ability, thinking skills, leadership qualities - anything other than complete submission to the nearest male jerk. And particularly married women, who barely existed in their own right under his tenure - everything had to be addressed to the head of household, the husband. She knew what she'd got on him. And her strategy (one has to agree) was successful, got herself enough dirt to get him kicked out and herself installed. She knew what women he'd coerced - and then she hung him out to dry. After, no doubt, a few fiery confrontations she gave him.

's why I'm interested in Steve's view, Raf. I recently did an intro to NT Greek course taught by a student at a local church who is studying theology at Oxford University. (A lovely lass she is, too.) I sidled into the discussions the group had, an enquiry about the difference if any between heteros and allos. She gave a bit of an explanation which was so far from what VPW stated categorically that I couldn't take it in. Suffice to say that it was much looser and nothing like as black and white as VPW claimed. But ... severally (separately) as He/he/it wills ??? Who? God? Man? the holy spirit? the Holy Spirit? ... the church minister, the congregation, the person next to you (LOL)...

This is only a bit off topic and Steve is going to have to deal with it anyway at some stage. What does 1 Cor 12:11 mean? "...dividing to every man severally as He [he?] will." And this whole passage is mixed up with that heteros/allos (alleged) difference that VPW claimed. (And for you Wiewillites, I'm not interested in the PFAL "definition" - I'm interested in what a serious Biblical scholar or professor thinks this means.) There is a school of thought that says 1 and 2 Cor are actually 1, 2, 3 and 4 Cor, in other words, not only two epistles but a combination of fragments of more than two. There are some changes of direction within these epistles and also a reference to a previous letter that we don't have, nowadays, which might be incorporated in the composite that we now call 1 Cor.

There is a database of all European companies and I wonder how many other TWI-clones there are out there - in France, Germany, Belgium, and the rest of Europe. TWI was very active in Germany with Wolfg@ng Schn3ider but who knows if anything is happening there now, I don't. There are still TWI (type) fellowships in France with several splinter groups too. There are also splinters in Scandinavia but don't know if they are just splinters (and hang more with CFFM or alone) or if there is a genuine (?) TWI presence / incorporated company in any of these.

Maybe we can celebrate their anniversary when they finally shut up shop.

So originally when TWI set up Gartmore, we were called "The Way in Great Britain" (WayGB (!) ) and then when everything crashed and burned, and Gartmore had broken away, a new set-up was established which was known as "The Way of the UK" - that would be very early 1990s. Neither of these appears to be a registered company. But I did find this: Company Details: Name & Registered Office: THE WAY INTERNATIONAL (UK) LIMITED FRYERN HOUSE 125 WINCHESTER ROAD CHANDLERS FORD HAMPSHIRE SO53 2DR Company No. 02943269 Status: Active Date of Incorporation: 28/06/1994 Country of Origin: United Kingdom Company Type: Private Limited Company Nature of Business (SIC): 94910 - Activities of religious organizations Accounting Reference Date: 30/06 Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/06/2011 (TOTAL EXEMPTION FULL) Next Accounts Due: 31/03/2013 Last Return Made Up To: 28/06/2012 Next Return Due: 26/07/2013 Last Members List: 28/06/2012 Previous Names:No previous name information has been recorded over the last 20 years. UK Establishment Details There are no UK Establishments associated with this company. Oversea Company Info There are no Oversea Details associated with this company. Maybe that's the legal name of The Way in the UK. Nice of whoever to tell. And this company is kept up to date. "There are no Oversea Details associated with this company." Well...no such details declared, anyway. Maybe there is no "legal association" as in shares being owned by an oversea company. Here are some of the documents associated with the abovenamed company: 18/07/2012 18/07/12 STATEMENT OF CAPITAL;GBP 1000 02/08/2011 DIRECTOR'S CHANGE OF PARTICULARS / REVEREND STEPHEN PAUL CROMMETT / 28/06/2011 22/09/2010 DIRECTOR'S CHANGE OF PARTICULARS / JEAN YVES DE LISLE / 28/06/2010 22/09/2010 DIRECTOR'S CHANGE OF PARTICULARS / REVEREND STEPHEN PAUL CROMMETT / 28/06/2010 22/09/2010 DIRECTOR'S CHANGE OF PARTICULARS / ROSALIE FOX RIVENBARK / 28/06/2010 21/09/2010 SECRETARY'S CHANGE OF PARTICULARS / JEAN YVES DE LISLE / 28/06/2010 18/11/2009 DIRECTOR APPOINTED REVEREND STEPHEN PAUL CROMMETT 17/11/2009 APPOINTMENT TERMINATED, DIRECTOR ROGER MITTLER I'll leave it to you to see if there are any familiar names.......

Name & Registered Office: WORD PROMOTIONS LIMITED C/O ALEXANDER SLOAN, CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS 38 CADOGAN STREET GLASGOW G2 7HF Company No. SC140876 Status: Active Date of Incorporation: 22/10/1992 Country of Origin: United Kingdom Company Type: Private Limited Company Nature of Business (SIC): 58110 - Book publishing Accounting Reference Date: 31/08 Last Accounts Made Up To: 31/08/2011 (TOTAL EXEMPTION SMALL) Next Accounts Due: 31/05/2013 Last Return Made Up To: 22/10/2011 Next Return Due: 19/11/2012 Last Members List: 22/10/2011

Huh, I liked Robert but thought Geer had stamped all over him. So RW set up this new clone, did he? Surprises me a bit, it's a rather un-Brit-like thing to do. But then .. shouldn't be surprised by anything the higher-ups did or still do.

When I was in rez, the grandmother of my Corps sister died. She was allowed to go to the funeral - in Florida or some such place - nowhere near. Last opportunity to say goodbye (pity they hadn't thought about that while the grandparent was still alive). The lass had to go with someone, and they had to stay together all the time, to "watch out for" each other. Someone else's sister got married. Not allowed to go to the wedding. There'd be plenty of time when Corps training had finished to go and see the happy couple. (I wonder if they were subsequently ever allowed any time to catch up with the new spouses, or whether they were just kept moving on the TWI roundabout?) Inhumane, to break those - and many other - important family occasions. I seem to recall - Jesus wept at funerals, and partied up at weddings... So much for following in his footsteps.

I know that exactly, Rascal. Can't read without feeling angry - or condemned. I used The Message when I first started reading again. About as far from KJV as you can get. I am really quite surprised at the number who say they read KJV as a preferred reading (not study) Bible, which is the clear preference so far. I thought TWI teaching might have put nearly everyone off and that people might have migrated to NRSV or similar. Though some may use KJV as only one of several versions they read from choice / preference.

OB, faith isn't a verb - "to have faith" might be along those lines, but the verb is "to have" which makes "faith" the predicate ... if I remember my grammar right. I really don't care. Believe God, have faith in God, have confidence in God ... Whatever way you slice it, it's probably NOT any of the definitions that TWI gave it. But you know when you're doing it.

Don W was? And not by his father? (His father sure respected that "ordination" later on in life!) Child abuse...hadn't thought of it quite like that. More like congregation abuse.

He was too busy DOING in his short ministry life to spend time writing it all down. And praying. There was at that time a much bigger tradition of oral recounting than is practiced today. But he taught his followers well enough that they could both communicate the gospel clearly, and (if they wanted) write it down as well. There were plenty of so-called God-followers that read, taught, and wrote things down. Some were known as Pharisees, and some were known as Sadducees. There were also scribes and other rabbis. Few of their writings, or oral traditions of their actions, have survived. Yes, it would be fascinating to read what the Man himself had written. Ad there would be ten thousand other sects all hanging their hats on where the commas came.

TWI can hardly sue for disparaging its reputation (LOL). I haven't seen this video, but if you substituted "homosexuals" for "Muslims" you might have something near the truth of what TWI was actually teaching, at least during Martindale's tenure.

I'm just listening to an item on the radio about the "ordination" of an 11 year old as a minister in his parents' church. Here's a link I found: 11 y.o. minister I don't doubt that a child of this age can have a "calling" and set a real example, both to other children and to adults. But ordination as a minister? Heck, would you go to this kid if you needed spiritual guidance when your marriage is going awry, when your own kids are going off the rails a bit, when you need help to deal with a situation at work... It seems to me that this is making a mockery of what being a minister really is. Let's see him in another 20 or 30 years ... then he might merit ordination, if he's stayed faithful.