Twinky

Did Linder really brandish a gun at this confrontation? What was he gonna do, shoot Paul? And his wife? Bury them by the fountain, perhaps - LOL? So much for walking in love, agreeing quickly with one's adversary, etc etc. (Without even backtracking to consider why Paul would be confronting...any of 'em.)

No, I don't decide. I get to see the quality of the responses. Whether they are measured or vitriolic, considered or polarising, dialogue or diatribe.

Johniam, using the "quote" function isn't difficult. Just click the "Reply" button under the reply you want to quote. Don't click the "Add reply" button below that. Write what you want, THEN click "Add reply" at the bottom of your response. It's quite easy, really it is. You said, among other things: And then you answered your own question: You're right about that. God, and His Word, and His Son Jesus Christ...that's our rock. I don't recall that VPW said what you record in the first quote, and I don't care to try to remember. But you, you please DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF THINKING PFAL AND GOD ARE THE SAME.

If there were no GSC, there would be thousands still in bondage to that dreadful organisation. So many who have passed through here have been enabled to see the truth behind the facade - to see that what happened to them was part of systematic abuse.

Skyrider recently posted this extract from some blog: It put me in mind of a book I've just finished: "The Submission." The book was longlisted for the 2012 Orange Prize for Fiction, a prestigious award. The longlist describes the book thus: The Financial Times says: I include the reviews so that you might take the novel's premise seriously. And it is a very good, readable book. The plot line is that a memorial is designed, in open competition, for the Twin Towers victims. The jury sees only the designs; they don't know who has prepared the design. The chosen design is by a 2nd generation architect, quiet, gets on with his life and interferes with nobody, committed to good design, clean lines, simplicity. And he is a non-observant...Muslim. The book moves the story on through a leak to the press and a disreputable reporter out to make a name for herself reporting this in provocative language, causing local furore, growing international furore, people become increasingly polarised in their views, and everybody is up in arms at everybody else. Local communities turn in on themselves, Americans come to fear all Muslims, Muslim countries verbally attack the USA, and physical attacks of increasing violence, culminating in the death of a totally innocent person, start breaking out. Many lies are told about each different faction and in particular about the architect, who has led a quiet, all-American life and who is totally apolitical. The architect is blamed for all of this aggression taking place...because he is a (nominal) Muslim. Yet he has done nothing at all except submit a design, which is chosen by the committee as being the best design. I hope the book is intended to be satirical. I fear it may not be... The power of written words - whether on the Internet or in a book... so important to mind what we say, whether said in written or spoken words. Do we polarise in what we say, or do we agree quickly with adversaries, those of other opinions, backgrounds or beliefs? Can we agree to differ? Can we honestly say we decide on merit and not on our own prejudices?

Didn't get enough alcohol, that's for sure, Waysider.

So far, 109 of you have looked at this - and not one of you has posted an encouraging message? Sad! Well, I did the Half Marathon, managed to achieve a time of 2h32m44sec which, bearing in mind that I did no training (honestly!) I consider most creditable. Not bad in my age category, either. It was a cold day, which I really can't cope with, but not as cold as it has been, so at least I managed to move...well-wrapped up, of course! And I've always disliked running. Always. Anyway, that aside, no encouragement now needed, but message of congratulation or even, "What, you didn't get enough in rez?" will be welcome.

Have you noticed - after any kind of post here, it's often not the initial post but the NEXT one, the second one, that sets the tone for the following discussion(s)? If it's a thoughtful post, then the next couple of pages of the thread tend to be quite thoughtful. If it's a rant, then the next couple of pages - and perhaps the whole thread - tends to fall apart and any useful discussion is totally lost, on what might have been quite a useful topic. After about the third page, the usual derailers have jumped in and particularly in ATW it tends to become a single discussion about the lifestyle of VPW, the efficacy of PFAL and like matters. Attacking each other's points of view, and not addressing the initial post. And any useful comment becomes totally obscured. There's quite a big responsibility on the second poster o a thread to set a civil tone. Sometimes, I think it might be worthwhile repeating the initial post at the top of each new page of a thread.

Nothing anywhere says how long your walk is...?

Can't sponsor you, Raf, but hope it went well and you raised a lot of money. We call this MS in the UK - it's a nasty disease.

Okay, folks, send me some encouraging messages. Tomorrow I do another Half Marathon. The weather forecast is dry, temp <6 degrees (43F) with a bit of a breeze. At least it is supposed to be dry, no rain, sleet, snow or grey dampness. At last. It's been bitterly cold lately and we have had many weeks below freezing day and night. For some of you that might not seem much. If you live in Texas or Florida you might be shivering at the thought of it. I have not practised much as when I go out in such cold my muscles all lock up. I can't seem to get warm at all. I think I have managed 3 or is it 4 training runs. So I am not expecting a record time tomorrow. However, I will get round, will complete the course fully - and within the allocated 3 hrs. I may be getting a Personal Best - for my longest time yet. Personal Worst, perhaps. As to whether I can walk or even move the next day - hah, that's another story. I do it as a fundraiser for Genesis Trust, which reaches out to the homeless and very vulnerable in this city where I live. Their strapline is: Compassion in Action. It is funded basically by all the churches in this city. Everyone working or volunteering there just gets on with what needs to be done, to help others. Nobody discusses theology, but everyone acknowledges God in all that they do. It's a very supportive place. Meeting real physical needs. I am delighted to support it by a bit of fundraising. Anyone who feels so inclined can make a donation at: my JustGiving page but I'm not particularly expecting you to. Please visit and leave good wishes, though, or send me a message here.

I've said this before here, and I'll say it again. I have friends who firmly believe in the trinity and pray to...it/them and get prayers answered. I know people who don't believe in the trinity (myself and other ex-Wayfers) who pray and get prayers answered. Therefore, I conclude that it's not a big deal for God, nor for Jesus, though they may prefer things to be different. However, they know who they are and what their roles are. They love the foolish people of this Earth and put up with our silliness. They look on our hearts to do what's right; they see love and compassion, or otherwise; that's what they respond to. And the meeting of needs, of course.

Wasn't my intent to set up a RC bashing thread, though there is much to bash. This is not a RC survivors' forum, it's a TWI survivors' hangout. Immaterial to me, I don't have a dog in this fight. Brought up C of E. Not so many RCs in the UK. I just wondered how people felt about the Pope's resignation. And now, his departure. To a fantastic castle. Prior to moving to a small mansion. Luke 18 comes to mind:

You crack me up, Socks! Can't see that happening in this century, anyway.

Just listening to something on the 10pm news about the cardinal's resignation. Oh the backpedalling! Oh the way they're saying some of the other cardinals may have made mistakes in the past!! But far in the past, and who hasn't made mistakes ... ^_^/> and other such rationalizations. Why raise such things now though and how many others will get wiped out by historical past suddenly emerging? Do we expect a squeaky-clean new Pope, or the muckiest one who has something on everyone else? Meantime, I would like to offer the outgoing Pope a special night's accommodation...in Julian House, a hostel for homeless people. Or perhaps he would like to offer some homeless Italian people, males of course, accommodation in the new home that is being prepared for him? Now that - I would respect.

And now, it's arrivederci Cardinal. Britain's most senior cardinal has also resigned...one month before he was due to retire anyway. Over long-ago allegations of inappropriate conduct. Cardinal O'Brien resigns One has to ask if there has been a little politicking going on. If these allegations were from a long time ago, why have they now surfaced? On the eve of the Pope's resignation, a new Pope's election, and the resignation of this very cardinal due so very soon. Someone is cleaning house! Someone is getting rid of those who would not vote for a particular candidate as Pope. I suspect there may be more to come - on both stories. OS, I take it you're not a big RC fan. :rolleyes:/>

It would be nice to retire with a golden handshake like he's got. Not zackly a life of poverty... What is the RC church doing with all that money and all those wonderfully rich things anyway? Living like Jesus lived? Living like Paul or Peter did? There was a quiz in the article Excie linked to. For amusement, I did the quiz (I know nothing about the RC church). One of the questions was about an investigation carried out by J John - which investigation, according to the quizmasters, revealed that 4% of priests were found to have had sexual contact with a minor. 4%!!! What???!!! :mad2:/>

I just had a quick look at the Peace Corps website and they have three mission statements, none of which resembles the WC principles. Not to say they haven't changed their mission statement or whatever. The text of their early newsletters, without being at all the same, has a not unfamiliar feel about it... Peace Corps started in 1960; when was the first WC intake? You might have something there, Penworks. Excie, you'd have been a lot better off... But who knows what other "adventures" and persuasive overseers you might have had?

Don't think anyone's accusing the Old Boy of participating. Wouldn't surprise me however if some within the Vatican did participate. If they lived normal lives like normal men, ie, married to supportive women, well, perhaps things would be different. Instead of male priests having "housekeepers" who look after them as well as after the house. I did hear something briefly that the RC church might consider removing the vow of celibacy. There have been calls for that. Here's one article: Catholic priest celibacy to end? But here's another view: Or maybe, not to end? Something for the next pope to wrestle with, maybe...or the pope after that...or the one after that...

With God, time is an eternal NOW. Time is not a linear thing such as we know. So that means: Now, right now, the earth is being made into what we now know. Now, right now, Adam is being created. Now, right now, Adam is falling. Now, right now, prophecies are being given about Christ coming. Now, right now, Christ is coming. Now, right now, Christ is being executed. Now, right now, Christ is rising from the dead. Now, right now, the time of Pentecost is occurring. Now, right now, YOU are being born. Now, right now, all the events of your life are taking place. Now, right now, YOU are dying, dead, and your funeral is taking place. Now, right now, the time of Revelation is occurring. And so, it doesn't matter if you're a dispensationalist, a preterist, a whatever or a something else. It gives a somewhat different perspective on life, foreknowledge, predestination, fatalism, and how you live your day today. Not saying that I agree or disagree with this view - just saying it's another take on Christianity and God's plans that some people espouse. Good strong fervent Christians too, not drum-bangers but with a desire to educate God's people into a fuller spiritual awareness.

You need to open your ears and your heart to listen to a few other people. Maybe even (gasp) go to a church or two. You'll hear a good many teachers, and a good many teachers teaching about and living grace, too.

Steve, I lost sight of who Jesus is, overlooked him pretty much altogether, as I expect many if not most Wayfers did and some still do. It's accepting the gift without any sense of what the cost of the gift was, or what its value is. If you worked hard to buy a diamond necklace for someone as a gift, or for a new car, or for - anything expensive - an operation, say... Or even, if you gave a body part like a kidney to someone whose kidneys had failed...and that person just said, oh thanks, and walked away and never displayed the item but shoved it in the back of the sock drawer or never thought of you again... I imagine if someone as a living donor gave you their kidney, or donated their loved deceased person's heart or lungs for a transplant, you'd be so grateful for the new life you'd received. So thankful for the gift, and so thankful for the donor's kindness and selflessness. And acknowledging the grief and loss that a deceased person's family may feel, in order that we, the donee, may get life anew. We were taught to ignore the kidney donor, the donor of the deceased's healthy heart. We just took the parts and shrugged at the donor. Like it wasn't a choice, wasn't a real cost. How selfish can we get? And that was sooooooooooo wrong.

So then, so far no further forward apart from a pervading idea that they were borrowed from somewhere else. But where? :spy:/>

Just a thought – in light of plagiarism of other TWI materials – but where do the Way Corps principles originate? Did VPW pinch these off someone – or some other organization? He was fond of calling the first semester of WC training “boot camp” (except that boot camp continued throughout WC training). Please someone (Galen?) tell me he didn’t steal some version of these principles from the Marines! For those of you who don’t know, or don’t remember – here they are…well, as they were at one time. From the Chalet sign: Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness. Receive training in the whole Word so as to be able to teach others. Physical training making your physical body, the vehicle [vee-hicle] of communication of the Word, as vital as possible. Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the ministry. Go forth as leaders and workers in areas o concern, interest and need. They did change slightly from time to time. LCM added a word, changed a word… maybe VPW did, too. For instance, LCM added “of the Word” at the end of CP1…which makes it a rather different principle. Don’t really want this do become a discussion about the principles themselves – that would be a different thread – it just struck me that VPW probably didn’t think these up any more than he thunk up PFAL or other class materials. (Apologies to any of you who I grossed out by repeating what you might prefer to have forgotten!)

Newlife, :knuddel:/> what you say is probably common to many posters here. There are still people who need to be rescued. :cryhug_1_:/> So there is still a need for people to be here, to throw the lifeline. There are a number of people here who come ... because they want to help. :dance:/>