Twinky

I don't think "impulse control" comes into it. The yelling by LCM was entirely deliberate, preplanned, an intimidation tactic. A bully, shouting loudly, because that's what he knows. He knew when to scream, when to have a hissy fit - and when to speak quietly or act sorrowfully at the waywardness of the Corps. It was manipulation. Not impulsive at all.From what I've learned here, that's what VPW was like as well. I have also seen this in other leadership - eg, J0hn R3yn0lds, who I've seen angry and shouting at people down the phone. End of conversation, then a pause for breath and to refocus on someone else - and he was gentle and sweet again. I think they could all do it, when they were "spiritually riled up" about where someone had not been "spiritually obedient." It was showmanship. But as for the rank and file, which is what this thread started out as - yeah, we were expected to be enthusiastic and passionate, at all the right moments. And I do believe some people genuinely were.

Regarding LCM: That's pretty much a Greasespot Gem, Kit.

Sad but true ... one year we were out Lightbearers. We got a class together (at the second attempt) and it ran and completed with all the students. One of the lads in it was soooooo proud of "graduating." Said he'd never graduated from any class in his life before. The local believers were a really great bunch, well, one family among them was. God, I wonder where that lad is now? I know the local family (God bless 'em, I think of them often) would really have done their best for him.

Would even SOWERS stoop so low? And anyway - it's the Wierwille inheritance that's important. Passing the mantle to the grandson...what VP1 was after. Keeping (from the grave) his family on track.

That's it, really. Who are our examples today? For me - my Mum nowadays. We fought horribly when I was growing up - I ran away from home because either she would kill me or I would kill her, so it seemed. We've both changed and mellowed. Now, despite never having had much money, she seems determined to give it all away before she dies. Mostly to Christian charities. She's taken homeless people into her home and helped set them up with training and uniforms. She has always given a tithe-amount to her church despite having very little, and has gently challenged those on much higher incomes to give more than a few small coins a week. She has always been there for her kids (including me), not stinting in the support she gives. My late Dad would do anything for anybody (only partly because we needed the money as the family grew). If anyone asked for help he gave it. It was not always reciprocated by the beneficiaries of his kindness, more just taken for granted. He had to work shifts as the family grew but one of his things was that even if he was tired, he polished all the family's shoes when he came home. He was great at giving hugs, holding hands, and having fun. He loved us and showed it. And now, perhaps, some of the people at church, who give wise and gentle answers, give generously of their time, are community-oriented and live out the gospel in practical ways. I suppose some of us might be exemplars for other people (oh heck!). Gosh! Hope they can sort out the wheat (the Christ) from the chaff (my own rubbishy actions).

Wot, another bl00dy fake "Reverend"? :smilie_kool_aid:/> Has this one even read a Bible, d'ya think?

Who do you think of, when you think of Jesus Christ? Jesus came to “put a face” on God – so that rather than the idea of a loving God, we got to see how God would work, in action. Jesus exemplified God in his earthly life. Jesus. The King of kinds. The Lord of lords. The only begotten son of God. The one now seated at the right hand of God. The one who is worthy to open the scroll and the seven seals. The one on the magnificent horse who leads his troops in the War to end all Wars. Jesus. The servant. The healer. The prophet, arguer, unsettler. The one who had time for people, yet avoided them too. The one who loved kids, but didn’t have any. Touchy-feely. Defiant, occasionally angry. Did all the right religious things, most of the time. Would talk to anybody. Jesus. A son, a brother. One of the lads, who hung around with a load of mates; the leader of the pack. Perhaps a bit of an oddity, not being married when so many his age were. Bit of a party-goer, enjoyed a drink or two, liked his food; didn't give parties though. If Jesus is the face of God, that we can relate to – who exemplifies Jesus, to you, in a way can be seen and followed now? A world leader – a politician? Mother Theresa? Archbishop Romero? The Pope? The archbishop of Canterbury? Your church minister? Your Mum, Dad, spouse, neighbour? Your boss or colleague? Medical staff? What face does Jesus wear, for you? How do you “relate” to him? There might be more than one person – perhaps most of your church congregation? (yeah, right) – that you can visualise as modelling aspects of Jesus’s life. As your role model. Holding my hand up here now – I can visualise him as a colleague, a friend, members of Christian communities that I am part of. I can see him as an intercessor and proponent (my lawyerly / courtroom background, I know what it is to plead for mitigation for offenders). But as King of kings, Lord of lords, the magnificence of who he really is? I have difficulty with that.

I don't think even with American diversity, it could be other than the norm to think that hitting other kids is wrong, stealing from the local shop is wrong, being rude to or swearing at other people is wrong. And I don't think even with American diversity, it could be other than the norm to think that being courteous to people is appropriate. These are some cultural norms from 2000 years ago. They are from a culture that might be very different from "American" culture, however you define that. From a time in history that was very different. And yet, Americans, Europeans, Japanese, Asians, most people - still think these norms are worthwhile in their cultures. Even very young kids can be taught these things. Simply. At a "five senses" level, if you like. Older kids can be taught some of the other stuff that I've omitted - sexual immorality (yeah, right), drunkenness, etc. And anyone can teach these things to kids in two ways: (1) by explicit correction of wrong behaviour; and (2) by modelling the desired behaviour. (Of course, all of us are perfect and never make a step wrong - yeah, right - that's why we can also teach (demonstrate to) kids that when we stuff up, we apologise)

Old proverb: "It takes a village to raise a child." Meaning: All (not just parents) should contribute, nurture, guard and guide, and be watchful for children as they grow. Social interaction is vital for a growing child to learn appropriate norms and mores. All can contribute. Does not mean: All have the right to beat any child. Also does not mean: All have the right to abuse a child by being "over-protective." Looking out for abused children is one thing. But the people you refer to in your news article should be prosecuted for wasting police time.

Lack of membership diversity? :biglaugh:/> :biglaugh:/> :biglaugh:/> What the heck does that mean? Not enough red, black, yellow or candy-striped one-legged blind homosexuals? More like, not enough people of working age to bring in megabucks. .. Not enough financial diversity. It's certain that a twig comprising only people of similar or even just plain "working" age, who were all working and thus "able" to ABS, wouldn't be disbanded because there were no retirees or pre-schoolers. When I was out WoW the area coordinator did send us some money to go to the beach (we were in a seaside town) and have some fun. We had a barbecue and invited our twigs and other people. The weather was surprisingly cold and windy for the time of year, but we had a good time. Later, however, he told me it wasn't ABS that he sent - it was a money gift from his own pocket. Other times, we had barbecues and social events - but we paid for them ourselves. And we still sent all our ABS to him to do whatever was appropriate. Send to HQ presumably. I never asked.

Interesting story, Steve. And something I'd noticed too in my sojourns in the US at TWI HQ. There were some black people in my WC, great people to be around - but on forays into the field for Lightbearers, etc, there was little evidence of black people in twigs I went to. (Maybe it was just the places I went to.) Your story reminds me of the racial segregation at the time of Roman occupation of Jerusalem. Peter goes to the house of Cornelius (gasp) (so racially unacceptable) and hears all Corny's household speak in tongues! You might want to consider why Pentecostals - or at least the black contingent within the P churches - willingly embraces SIT where so many white churches look down on it and upon others who do SIT. To look at a different side of your story, I wonder if now you'd "get away with" witnessing to prostitutes and pimps. Whether the TWI hierarchy would jump on you for hanging out with no-hopers. I gather that (long after I'd been expelled) people were forbidden to get involved with (invite to twig) prospects who didn't have a job (ie couldn't bring in ABS) or who were otherwise had problems or were socially unacceptable.

Enigmatic, Steve. Look forward to hearing your "question and answer." Your wife's counselor is an ex-Wayfer herself? Wow!! Sounds like that was unknown to all of you until your recent meeting. That'lll put a different understanding into the counseling.

Won't see 50 ... devil spirits will attack us for standing on the Word ... Heeeyyyyy - Rosalie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I knew that'd get you going, Sky. Don't forget - I've been there too - got the T-shirt(s), the nametags, the supposed Corps status - and the scars. I could have been earning biiiiiig money if I hadn't got sidetracked by TWI. So could many others. You yourself, too, perhaps. Instead, worldly careers were brushed off, dissed, "You're leaning to your five senses" etc. WW says it right: - Not just the Corps, though. Despite what that prat VPW taught, I'd rather look at the examples within the Bible, both OT and NT, to see what their lifestyle really was. I see that some of them shared generously. They helped one another. They lived in fearless hope and joyful expectation - despite actual real risk to life. Others were bitchy and backbiting and selfish (nothing new there, then). There is a lot about how they lived. There is not so much about how they sustained physical life - their earning potential. God's not interested in that. He's interested in the inside...the place where real riches of love, joy, peace, faithfulness, patience, kindness, etc truly reside.

Okay, Sky - you mean it one way, I mean it another. I don't agree that there is "upward mobility" spiritually - in a caste system. That's pharisaical. And proper training for Christian ministry does its best to weed out those who are in it for themselves, who seek glorification through position. Downward mobility, perhaps - as one learns to serve God and fellow man better. Your OT examples are fine; but they aren't the norm. They are part of a long-term plan, God's plan, to bring protection to the Christline. A quietly overlooked OT example is the servant girl who told Naaman to listen to the prophet. No idea whether she got anything other than more servant-work to do. But don't forget that that the apostles gave up their day jobs to become ... what? And Paul became an itinerant preacher and itinerant day-jobber at saddle (or tent) making. Many in the NT died for their beliefs. So did many in the OT; we have read of persecutions, taking into exile, etc. Not to mention wars. And Bathsheba's husband's loyalty to God and man got him the reward of becoming a cuckold and then losing his life to try to hide the fact. That's hardly "upward" mobility. Forget the "American dream." It's absolutely not about how much you think God rewards you with in the here and now. Get rid of the "prosperity gospel" that so mars the American church. That Weirwille preached. There are many people who have given up potentially lucrative careers to serve as ministers within established churches, missionaries, other servant-roles for God. And there are thousands, millions, of wonderful Christian people in impoverished countries who depend day to day on God, via Christian brethren, to meet their daily needs - down to the bowlful of rice that they need to keep living. Some face execution for their beliefs; there are cases in the news right now about that. If you do achieve physical abundance and position in this life, don't be seduced by the comfort that can buy. There's nothing wrong with it - but be Godly about it. Steward your money and influence carefully and share, really share, with those brethren who are in need elsewhere.

Standard technique, newlife. Just about everybody who left or was thrown out had their name blackened and was denounced as being "possessed." And if those who remained in TWI dared contact or associate with the ones who had departed, they too would become "possessed" and would "weaken the ministry." It was manipulation, pure and simple. One Rev's daughter killed herself. The Rev and his wife were banished as being possessed and not able to care for their family - it was their fault she had done this. And anyone who contacted the Rev to offer comfort would themselves become possessed. Does that sound loving? Where are the words of comfort? Where is the kindness? Another Rev had questions in the fog years. Some close friends, another Corps couple (maybe he was a Rev too) contacted them; this was found out by HQ; the second couple immediately became possessed and were ignominiously thrown out. Does that sound like kindness? Like the open response that Jesus would give to those who had doubts? TWI built up fear of the devil, fear of devil spirits ... within TWI you could learn far more about this than about the real and healing power of God and the loving ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. Did you ever see Jesus acting in this way towards those who walked away from him? Did any of the apostles behave like this? On the contrary - for example, we see Simon the Sorcerer continuing to hang around with the apostles. And Simon had packed some "big ones." You are not, and never were, possessed, newlife. But maybe those who remained and still remain at TWI in face of all they must know, suspect or have observed - maybe they are at least influenced by d.s. Yes, they tried this on me too, and I lived with guilt and fear for years. I was afraid of other Christians - other people! - and ashamed of myself before God. Thank God, He was not ashamed of me. He found a way to drag me out of that. I hate those lying evil manipulators for what they have done to ruin so many lives. The best thing you can do, newlife, is to live your life fully, without fear, and love God the best you know how. He loves you and will never abandon or forsake you.

Not "upward mobility," Skyrider. OUTWARD mobility. Out from TWI. With God there is no "upward" - just more of what He wants us to do and to become. Perhaps, on the field, there is also more time (not much more time, granted) to think, to ponder, to consider and to hear from hurt people than there is in all the busy-work at HQ. Plus there isn't the Big Brother atmosphere of always being watched by a zillion pairs of eyes, looking out for signs of not toeing the line / having doubts / lacking in "meekness."

I remember one time in rez. It was the Superbowl. We were all given the evening off so that we could watch the game live on TV - in fact, a big TV was installed in one of the rooms for this very purpose. A whole evening off! Bliss!!! As a non-American, this event has no meaning for me. I had no idea what it was. For others in rez, some were not interested; some had other things to do; some were just plain tired and wanted some rest. This entire bunch of people did not go to watch the football on TV. The next day, LCM himself came and reamed out the non-attenders. Came to "talk" to us all, and had a real screaming fit at those who did not go and watch TV. If we'd had any interest in him, we'd have watched the game - then, we'd have understood him better. He used that very phrase; I remember it now. (Basically, we should have been interested in the game because he was interested in it.) I crawled out from that thinking, But you said it was time off. You didn't order us to attend. I'm supposed to be interested in The Word, not in your past life or history. I don't want to know what makes you tick, I want to know God better. And I still didn't know what the Superbowl was. :rolleyes:/>

He said he could be running a Fortune 500 company - not just working for it. Didn't VPW start that lie? And LCM with his massive ego sorry humility believed it. But he might be working for one now - who knows? Any Fortune 500 company he was CEO for would soon be a Fortune 500million company - if that well off. He ran TWI into the ground, financially. I don't think anyone here has any up to date information. Some years ago (10 years?) he was reputed to be working for a home handyman store or some such. He's no doubt moved or been moved on since then. Maybe moved on spiritually, too.

They taught you to fall off a bookcase? Ha ha ha ha. This would be that same ministry that expected everything to be perfect and if the books weren't arranged absolutely symmetrically or by type or size or whatever, "decently and in order," that opened the door to devil spirits. And now you have to fall off the bookcase and disrupt the display? :confused:/> Do the JWs sell anything, apart from giving away The Watchtower? One of my friends from church got away from the JWs. He has a tale to tell. He wasn't "baptised" or whatever their commitment thing is, so his mother is allowed still to talk to him. His sister, who was baptised, has also walked away and his mother is not allowed to talk to her apostate daughter. There are lots of things he told me that have an oh-so-familiar ring to them.

The girlies have enjoyed their hellos and scritches, thank you very much.

What a waste of your hard-earned math qualifications.

Peace, guys. Take it easy.

I'm far more concerned with the death of a very elderly friend last week, and his memorial service this coming Friday. VPW was dead before I even heard of TWI. Not that anybody ever said that - or commented that after the PFAL class where "If you have any questions, write The Teacher..." meant it would be someone else who responded (if they bothered).

Perhaps someone can link into this thread the recent threads concerning RRF and this predator - there are two or three threads.