Twinky

Wot, another bl00dy fake "Reverend"? :smilie_kool_aid:/> Has this one even read a Bible, d'ya think?

Who do you think of, when you think of Jesus Christ? Jesus came to “put a face” on God – so that rather than the idea of a loving God, we got to see how God would work, in action. Jesus exemplified God in his earthly life. Jesus. The King of kinds. The Lord of lords. The only begotten son of God. The one now seated at the right hand of God. The one who is worthy to open the scroll and the seven seals. The one on the magnificent horse who leads his troops in the War to end all Wars. Jesus. The servant. The healer. The prophet, arguer, unsettler. The one who had time for people, yet avoided them too. The one who loved kids, but didn’t have any. Touchy-feely. Defiant, occasionally angry. Did all the right religious things, most of the time. Would talk to anybody. Jesus. A son, a brother. One of the lads, who hung around with a load of mates; the leader of the pack. Perhaps a bit of an oddity, not being married when so many his age were. Bit of a party-goer, enjoyed a drink or two, liked his food; didn't give parties though. If Jesus is the face of God, that we can relate to – who exemplifies Jesus, to you, in a way can be seen and followed now? A world leader – a politician? Mother Theresa? Archbishop Romero? The Pope? The archbishop of Canterbury? Your church minister? Your Mum, Dad, spouse, neighbour? Your boss or colleague? Medical staff? What face does Jesus wear, for you? How do you “relate” to him? There might be more than one person – perhaps most of your church congregation? (yeah, right) – that you can visualise as modelling aspects of Jesus’s life. As your role model. Holding my hand up here now – I can visualise him as a colleague, a friend, members of Christian communities that I am part of. I can see him as an intercessor and proponent (my lawyerly / courtroom background, I know what it is to plead for mitigation for offenders). But as King of kings, Lord of lords, the magnificence of who he really is? I have difficulty with that.

I don't think even with American diversity, it could be other than the norm to think that hitting other kids is wrong, stealing from the local shop is wrong, being rude to or swearing at other people is wrong. And I don't think even with American diversity, it could be other than the norm to think that being courteous to people is appropriate. These are some cultural norms from 2000 years ago. They are from a culture that might be very different from "American" culture, however you define that. From a time in history that was very different. And yet, Americans, Europeans, Japanese, Asians, most people - still think these norms are worthwhile in their cultures. Even very young kids can be taught these things. Simply. At a "five senses" level, if you like. Older kids can be taught some of the other stuff that I've omitted - sexual immorality (yeah, right), drunkenness, etc. And anyone can teach these things to kids in two ways: (1) by explicit correction of wrong behaviour; and (2) by modelling the desired behaviour. (Of course, all of us are perfect and never make a step wrong - yeah, right - that's why we can also teach (demonstrate to) kids that when we stuff up, we apologise)

Old proverb: "It takes a village to raise a child." Meaning: All (not just parents) should contribute, nurture, guard and guide, and be watchful for children as they grow. Social interaction is vital for a growing child to learn appropriate norms and mores. All can contribute. Does not mean: All have the right to beat any child. Also does not mean: All have the right to abuse a child by being "over-protective." Looking out for abused children is one thing. But the people you refer to in your news article should be prosecuted for wasting police time.

Lack of membership diversity? :biglaugh:/> :biglaugh:/> :biglaugh:/> What the heck does that mean? Not enough red, black, yellow or candy-striped one-legged blind homosexuals? More like, not enough people of working age to bring in megabucks. .. Not enough financial diversity. It's certain that a twig comprising only people of similar or even just plain "working" age, who were all working and thus "able" to ABS, wouldn't be disbanded because there were no retirees or pre-schoolers. When I was out WoW the area coordinator did send us some money to go to the beach (we were in a seaside town) and have some fun. We had a barbecue and invited our twigs and other people. The weather was surprisingly cold and windy for the time of year, but we had a good time. Later, however, he told me it wasn't ABS that he sent - it was a money gift from his own pocket. Other times, we had barbecues and social events - but we paid for them ourselves. And we still sent all our ABS to him to do whatever was appropriate. Send to HQ presumably. I never asked.

Interesting story, Steve. And something I'd noticed too in my sojourns in the US at TWI HQ. There were some black people in my WC, great people to be around - but on forays into the field for Lightbearers, etc, there was little evidence of black people in twigs I went to. (Maybe it was just the places I went to.) Your story reminds me of the racial segregation at the time of Roman occupation of Jerusalem. Peter goes to the house of Cornelius (gasp) (so racially unacceptable) and hears all Corny's household speak in tongues! You might want to consider why Pentecostals - or at least the black contingent within the P churches - willingly embraces SIT where so many white churches look down on it and upon others who do SIT. To look at a different side of your story, I wonder if now you'd "get away with" witnessing to prostitutes and pimps. Whether the TWI hierarchy would jump on you for hanging out with no-hopers. I gather that (long after I'd been expelled) people were forbidden to get involved with (invite to twig) prospects who didn't have a job (ie couldn't bring in ABS) or who were otherwise had problems or were socially unacceptable.

Enigmatic, Steve. Look forward to hearing your "question and answer." Your wife's counselor is an ex-Wayfer herself? Wow!! Sounds like that was unknown to all of you until your recent meeting. That'lll put a different understanding into the counseling.

Won't see 50 ... devil spirits will attack us for standing on the Word ... Heeeyyyyy - Rosalie !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I knew that'd get you going, Sky. Don't forget - I've been there too - got the T-shirt(s), the nametags, the supposed Corps status - and the scars. I could have been earning biiiiiig money if I hadn't got sidetracked by TWI. So could many others. You yourself, too, perhaps. Instead, worldly careers were brushed off, dissed, "You're leaning to your five senses" etc. WW says it right: - Not just the Corps, though. Despite what that prat VPW taught, I'd rather look at the examples within the Bible, both OT and NT, to see what their lifestyle really was. I see that some of them shared generously. They helped one another. They lived in fearless hope and joyful expectation - despite actual real risk to life. Others were bitchy and backbiting and selfish (nothing new there, then). There is a lot about how they lived. There is not so much about how they sustained physical life - their earning potential. God's not interested in that. He's interested in the inside...the place where real riches of love, joy, peace, faithfulness, patience, kindness, etc truly reside.

Okay, Sky - you mean it one way, I mean it another. I don't agree that there is "upward mobility" spiritually - in a caste system. That's pharisaical. And proper training for Christian ministry does its best to weed out those who are in it for themselves, who seek glorification through position. Downward mobility, perhaps - as one learns to serve God and fellow man better. Your OT examples are fine; but they aren't the norm. They are part of a long-term plan, God's plan, to bring protection to the Christline. A quietly overlooked OT example is the servant girl who told Naaman to listen to the prophet. No idea whether she got anything other than more servant-work to do. But don't forget that that the apostles gave up their day jobs to become ... what? And Paul became an itinerant preacher and itinerant day-jobber at saddle (or tent) making. Many in the NT died for their beliefs. So did many in the OT; we have read of persecutions, taking into exile, etc. Not to mention wars. And Bathsheba's husband's loyalty to God and man got him the reward of becoming a cuckold and then losing his life to try to hide the fact. That's hardly "upward" mobility. Forget the "American dream." It's absolutely not about how much you think God rewards you with in the here and now. Get rid of the "prosperity gospel" that so mars the American church. That Weirwille preached. There are many people who have given up potentially lucrative careers to serve as ministers within established churches, missionaries, other servant-roles for God. And there are thousands, millions, of wonderful Christian people in impoverished countries who depend day to day on God, via Christian brethren, to meet their daily needs - down to the bowlful of rice that they need to keep living. Some face execution for their beliefs; there are cases in the news right now about that. If you do achieve physical abundance and position in this life, don't be seduced by the comfort that can buy. There's nothing wrong with it - but be Godly about it. Steward your money and influence carefully and share, really share, with those brethren who are in need elsewhere.

Standard technique, newlife. Just about everybody who left or was thrown out had their name blackened and was denounced as being "possessed." And if those who remained in TWI dared contact or associate with the ones who had departed, they too would become "possessed" and would "weaken the ministry." It was manipulation, pure and simple. One Rev's daughter killed herself. The Rev and his wife were banished as being possessed and not able to care for their family - it was their fault she had done this. And anyone who contacted the Rev to offer comfort would themselves become possessed. Does that sound loving? Where are the words of comfort? Where is the kindness? Another Rev had questions in the fog years. Some close friends, another Corps couple (maybe he was a Rev too) contacted them; this was found out by HQ; the second couple immediately became possessed and were ignominiously thrown out. Does that sound like kindness? Like the open response that Jesus would give to those who had doubts? TWI built up fear of the devil, fear of devil spirits ... within TWI you could learn far more about this than about the real and healing power of God and the loving ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ. Did you ever see Jesus acting in this way towards those who walked away from him? Did any of the apostles behave like this? On the contrary - for example, we see Simon the Sorcerer continuing to hang around with the apostles. And Simon had packed some "big ones." You are not, and never were, possessed, newlife. But maybe those who remained and still remain at TWI in face of all they must know, suspect or have observed - maybe they are at least influenced by d.s. Yes, they tried this on me too, and I lived with guilt and fear for years. I was afraid of other Christians - other people! - and ashamed of myself before God. Thank God, He was not ashamed of me. He found a way to drag me out of that. I hate those lying evil manipulators for what they have done to ruin so many lives. The best thing you can do, newlife, is to live your life fully, without fear, and love God the best you know how. He loves you and will never abandon or forsake you.

Not "upward mobility," Skyrider. OUTWARD mobility. Out from TWI. With God there is no "upward" - just more of what He wants us to do and to become. Perhaps, on the field, there is also more time (not much more time, granted) to think, to ponder, to consider and to hear from hurt people than there is in all the busy-work at HQ. Plus there isn't the Big Brother atmosphere of always being watched by a zillion pairs of eyes, looking out for signs of not toeing the line / having doubts / lacking in "meekness."

I remember one time in rez. It was the Superbowl. We were all given the evening off so that we could watch the game live on TV - in fact, a big TV was installed in one of the rooms for this very purpose. A whole evening off! Bliss!!! As a non-American, this event has no meaning for me. I had no idea what it was. For others in rez, some were not interested; some had other things to do; some were just plain tired and wanted some rest. This entire bunch of people did not go to watch the football on TV. The next day, LCM himself came and reamed out the non-attenders. Came to "talk" to us all, and had a real screaming fit at those who did not go and watch TV. If we'd had any interest in him, we'd have watched the game - then, we'd have understood him better. He used that very phrase; I remember it now. (Basically, we should have been interested in the game because he was interested in it.) I crawled out from that thinking, But you said it was time off. You didn't order us to attend. I'm supposed to be interested in The Word, not in your past life or history. I don't want to know what makes you tick, I want to know God better. And I still didn't know what the Superbowl was. :rolleyes:/>

He said he could be running a Fortune 500 company - not just working for it. Didn't VPW start that lie? And LCM with his massive ego sorry humility believed it. But he might be working for one now - who knows? Any Fortune 500 company he was CEO for would soon be a Fortune 500million company - if that well off. He ran TWI into the ground, financially. I don't think anyone here has any up to date information. Some years ago (10 years?) he was reputed to be working for a home handyman store or some such. He's no doubt moved or been moved on since then. Maybe moved on spiritually, too.

They taught you to fall off a bookcase? Ha ha ha ha. This would be that same ministry that expected everything to be perfect and if the books weren't arranged absolutely symmetrically or by type or size or whatever, "decently and in order," that opened the door to devil spirits. And now you have to fall off the bookcase and disrupt the display? :confused:/> Do the JWs sell anything, apart from giving away The Watchtower? One of my friends from church got away from the JWs. He has a tale to tell. He wasn't "baptised" or whatever their commitment thing is, so his mother is allowed still to talk to him. His sister, who was baptised, has also walked away and his mother is not allowed to talk to her apostate daughter. There are lots of things he told me that have an oh-so-familiar ring to them.

The girlies have enjoyed their hellos and scritches, thank you very much.

What a waste of your hard-earned math qualifications.

Peace, guys. Take it easy.

I'm far more concerned with the death of a very elderly friend last week, and his memorial service this coming Friday. VPW was dead before I even heard of TWI. Not that anybody ever said that - or commented that after the PFAL class where "If you have any questions, write The Teacher..." meant it would be someone else who responded (if they bothered).

Perhaps someone can link into this thread the recent threads concerning RRF and this predator - there are two or three threads.

The Way was fond of telling us we were living like the first century church in the 20th Century. That we had all things in common (hence, Way home) etc – even though it was patently obvious that there were the haves and the have-nots within the Way – the Corps chalet that became an exclusive home for the Prez, for example. Here’s a different view of the first century church. It was suffering from: Factions Sexual immorality Lawsuits among believers Ritual prostitution Sexual abstinence within marriage Eating food sacrificed to idols Chaotic worship Abuse of communion Abuse of spiritual gifts Arrogance not love Leadership disregarded Yep, we really were the first century church in the 20th century. I went to the local Abbey, the local principal church, for the regular service last night. The service is very informal, and laid back. The preacher last night, Alan, is a notable theologian, well educated at various theological institutes; he is also entertaining and funny, very humble, and to the point. He’s great to listen to. He has a most interesting way of turning things on their head and making you see things in a different way. The reading was from Acts 2:40-47 – the model church. However, he went on to talk (in the current series, What’s so Special About … 1 Corinthians) about the early church in Corinth as portrayed in 1 Cor 1. He showed the above “qualities” which he addresses in the epistles to the Corinthians. Be careful what you join yourself to (and be careful not to separate what should be joined) - we're one Body, not individuals to please ourselves. We have no status as individuals within the Body - we are all bought with the same price. If you’d like to listen, here is a link: http://www.bathabbey.org/sites/default/files/140518-BTW-Alan-Garrow.MP3 Or go direct to the Bath Abbey website, find By The Way for 18 May 2014. The recording is a little quiet, especially the first few seconds, but well worth the listen. It’s not long, only about 20 mins.

Not to mention suing the grower of the lettuce and the manufacturer of the knife. And then writing a book about the whole incident. Might even just wrap it up in a clean tea towel and carry on cutting the lettuce. Yeah, very funny, BA. That kinda "gets it." :biglaugh:/>:biglaugh:/> Excie, I didn't know she'd lost her son to adoptive parents over this. To add huge insult to huger injury. I hope the adoptive parents can foster a healthy "open adoption" arrangement where Michelle and the boy can get to know each other properly. How can those lost years ever be replaced? To everyone: Life is short and we don't know what might happen tomorrow, even later today. To us, or to those we love. Enjoy the time there is now, deal with today's issues now, and be kind and forgiving to everybody.

:offtopic:/> Broken Arrow: "Philomena is a 2013 drama film directed by Stephen Frears, based on the book The Lost Child of Philomena Lee by journalist Martin Sixsmith. Starring Judi Dench and Steve Coogan, it tells the true story of Philomena Lee's 50-year-long search for her son..." Did the woman it happened to go out and write the book? No. She did go out and look for her lost child - but she didn't write the book. The story came to the attention of a journo. The journo wrote the book; he's the one who claims the credit. It made for a good film, which in fact didn't (in the way of dramatisations) match the facts. And I wonder if the film would have been made at all if there hadn't been an American connection (the son had been taken to America) - if he'd been taken to Kenya or France or Germany, would it have had the same market appeal? "Selling your story" isn't really a Brit thing - unless you're selling your story to a tabloid newspaper, a gossip rag, and you're into "kiss-n-tell" about your torrid affair with a footballer, or some such. It's not to say that journos don't chase after people looking for what they hope might be a good story. There are cultural issues here that you're overlooking. But that would be another thread.

Actually, it's not really a "failed ministry" - it might fail at ministry but it's not really failed at itself - as witnessed by the number of offshoots it has spawned, which all use more or less the same model. Not least, Young Vic's "training" program.

Sky, you forgot: chopping wood, mowing lawns, raking gravel, vacuuming the car park (yes really), killing chickens. We were all so busy that there was little time to think about integrating with other Christians or involving in other Christians' activities - we were "moving the Word" doncha know! There was rarely even free time just to think quietly. But there were "departmental secretaries" who seemed to have little to do except "being available" if someone chose to drop by their department. These departmental secretaries were graduated Corps who - far from being out "moving the Word" as their reasonable expectations might have been - were having a very hard time moving their eyelids to the Open position. What a terrible waste.