Twinky

Just looked at what the video was for point 32. If only the tantrums in TWI were that mellow. Instead of spitfests and vile language.

Sure it makes room for them, excie. Makes room for them in the punishment cell. They used talents and abilities and secular skills if it suited them but woe betide you if you had some better skill than the leader of your work group. If you could point out a better way to do something, then you were "leaning to your own understanding" and not listening to the work group leader, who had the revelation on the best way to do any task. Yeah right.

There is therefore now great condemnation to them that are in The Way Ministry. Always.

Is it not that the first 5 books were attributed to Moses (ie not written by him) and only some time later actually written? (In the same way that the gospels were circulating as oral stories rather than written ones for quite some time before being committed to papyrus). Some say the "Moses" (and other) books were actually written down by scribes retained by Soloman. Others say that these books were redacted by scribes in the Ezra/Nehemiah restoration period. And by either time, camels would have been domesticated and would have been a symbol of wealth. So would that then be adding something later that demonstrated the wealth at the preceeding time? (You could say, for example, that the Conquistadors had "thousands of doubloons" to spend on their invasions...wouldn't mean as much as if you said they had "millions of dollars," which conveys the value/amount better.) Some versions of the Bible in the English language attempt to do something similar by substituting common names - pounds (weight) for example or inches (as cubits don't mean much nowadays to the average reader). Whose image is this on this "penny"? But that isn't what the unit of currency was called (denarius), and neither does the apparent value (penny) convey the amount/meaning, which was actually a day's wage. In our time, we might have said, whose image is this on this $50 / $100 bill? So perhaps saying Abraham had camels might be a reasonable way then of expressing his wealth, that "communicated" at the time the books were written down. Maybe nowadays we'd say that he had top-of-the-line motor vehicles, luxury yachts, transport fleets, or football teams. Or Cayman Islands bank accounts. He was uber-rich.

IIRC is "If I Remember Correctly" Google is a wonderful thing. I wondered that, too.

Thomas, look at the dates. Steve posted well before Raf's latest thread on Genesis.

:offtopic:/> You're surely not telling me that in litigious ole USA people were not required to have at least third party vehicle insurance? What happened if someone had a vehicle accident where a victim was seriously injured? Does the vehicle driver sell his house, wife and kids to pay the medical bills, or just declare bankruptcy? Or are you talking about comprehensive insurance, which covers third parties and also one's own vehicle? Actually, at least in the UK, that's (perversely) often cheaper than TP-only insurance. What a false economy - not to get insurance.

Wasn't The Way's view that the earth was created - some time - and became void and without form (tohu bohu). Then, some undefined time later, the spirit of God breathed on the waters and all the things in Genesis took place and that was 6000 years ago. And creation of the things that we know took place. Didn't that wellknown playwright sorry plagiarist VPW declare that dinosaurs etc occurred in the time before tohu bohu, way before the 6000 that the earth as we know it was (re-)created? I have trouble with the firmament as a sort of membrane holding back earth-sized quantities of water. Much more it's something figurative or, as you put it Raf, the Hebrew worldview of the time. And WW, what you write may or may not be true. We don't have the length of knowledge to say that (yet). Granted, it seems plausible to us all now. Maybe theories will change in 300 years time. Just as 300 years ago you would have believed, quite reasonably, something different from the current Earth-story.

One month later: The underlings were highly skilled when he wanted them to be - and inexperienced and useless when he didn't want them to be. Sound familiar? Blatantly disregards orders. Both in the incident Waysider reported, and in the extract above, just a month later. Sound familiar? Brought to book( and even relieved of his command) - so goes and starts up something he can command - absolutely. Sound familiar?

Nice one, Excie.

Strange, but all these reports of clergy refusing to pray for unbelievers/those who no longer fellowship brings (now) to mind that dozy PFAL story of the man who heard VPW was on the train and sought prayer "but I do not believe in your Jesus." And the man was healed. And VPW was granted the freedom of the city. If the story is even remotely true, it shows VPW or some of the entourage was willing to pray for this unbeliever male - not only that, but that the pray-er expected the prayer to be answered. Which is apparently was. And yet - that is so not the behaviour of TWI as a whole. Pray for unbelievers? Pah! Pray for those who no longer fellowship with the Way? Double Pah! Forget it! Did Jesus pray with the Samaritan woman whom he met at the wellside? Doesn't say. Did he pray with the citizens of Samaria, when he'd stayed for a little while? Again, doesn't say. But as he was welcomed to preach and teach, it would be surprising if he didn't pray with some of them. And also teach them how to pray for themselves. ... Spot the difference ... !

Unbelievable!! :confused:/> The rain falls on good and bad alike - but clearly prayers don't ...

I occasionally look at online Daily Bread and this week’s topic is the book of Job. There is an introductory section outlining the background to the book. This includes the following: I’ve heard in TWI teaching of Satan the Accuser – never that it is some sort of functional or legal role. And I thought of Jesus being our Righteous Advocate- always there, defending us. His role, his position, his choice. I think maybe TWI might have described him as our Defence Attorney. Also, (the) satan had come into God’s presence from walking to and fro upon the earth. But Jesus is always there, always ready to defend. He doesn’t need to walk about to and fro. Hmm. I’ve never seen these roles put together quite like this and thought the juxtaposition was interesting and brought out a new aspect of the “role” of both. A new perspective. Or perhaps that’s just my legal background speaking.

Bumping this up. I just found this thread by accident today. Shocking.

newlife, I understand your problem here. Something I wrestle with too. I feel I know God ... but Jesus? Sometimes. Not enough. A one-time poster here recommended a teaching in March 2014 by K Guigou at CFFM. He talks about this very thing. And talks about praying to Jesus and getting to know him, Jesus, more clearly. I found it helpful. And (being Kevin) you know what his background is and where he's coming from. Here's a link: Guigou teaching (Try to ignore the applause and standing ovation - other recent threads in this forum refer.)

Soon after I got into TWI (which was in the UK of course), Gartmore was purchased and many of the Brit believers went up to help get it ready one way and there was an opening ceremony. We slept on camp beds in the gym which also doubled as the auditorium. Quite good fun. But then, the gym turned into the auditorium with a stage and lecturn etc. I was with some WoWs and we ended up in the front few rows. Enter CG at stage right. Everyone stood up for his entrance and applauded. I was bewildered by this but at the prodding of the WoWs who'd brought me, also stood up. And this beaming EGO bounced onto the stage, basking in the applause, and then gently shushing the congregation whilst egging them on a bit too. It gave me the creeps. Other things happened and I rapidly understood that very weekend that he said one thing publicly and was quite different (nastily so) privately. I saw right through him that weekend. I was unsurprised when the split from Ohio took place. No decision for me.

Time to go to Soap Opera, methinks.

Outie, I am shocked at you. Don't you remember that the Way mags were the "epistles" for our day and time? :biglaugh:/> WW, I do agree with you about gmir. Best thing in the mag. And then it ... just stopped being there. Know why, now.

Red Thread was all about JC in books of scripture. This thread is about (in summary) seeing the Christ in others. How Christ might seem, in action, today. Real-life examples that we can look at and learn from. As Paul said; Be ye followers of me. Well, Paul is dead too. So whose example can we follow today?

The poor kid doesn't even have his own name. Much less his own mind, his own thoughts, his own life.One day, he's gonna sit back and think, What's it all about? Where's my life gone? What do I really think and believe? Hmmmmm.....

I don't think "impulse control" comes into it. The yelling by LCM was entirely deliberate, preplanned, an intimidation tactic. A bully, shouting loudly, because that's what he knows. He knew when to scream, when to have a hissy fit - and when to speak quietly or act sorrowfully at the waywardness of the Corps. It was manipulation. Not impulsive at all.From what I've learned here, that's what VPW was like as well. I have also seen this in other leadership - eg, J0hn R3yn0lds, who I've seen angry and shouting at people down the phone. End of conversation, then a pause for breath and to refocus on someone else - and he was gentle and sweet again. I think they could all do it, when they were "spiritually riled up" about where someone had not been "spiritually obedient." It was showmanship. But as for the rank and file, which is what this thread started out as - yeah, we were expected to be enthusiastic and passionate, at all the right moments. And I do believe some people genuinely were.

Regarding LCM: That's pretty much a Greasespot Gem, Kit.

Sad but true ... one year we were out Lightbearers. We got a class together (at the second attempt) and it ran and completed with all the students. One of the lads in it was soooooo proud of "graduating." Said he'd never graduated from any class in his life before. The local believers were a really great bunch, well, one family among them was. God, I wonder where that lad is now? I know the local family (God bless 'em, I think of them often) would really have done their best for him.

Would even SOWERS stoop so low? And anyway - it's the Wierwille inheritance that's important. Passing the mantle to the grandson...what VP1 was after. Keeping (from the grave) his family on track.

That's it, really. Who are our examples today? For me - my Mum nowadays. We fought horribly when I was growing up - I ran away from home because either she would kill me or I would kill her, so it seemed. We've both changed and mellowed. Now, despite never having had much money, she seems determined to give it all away before she dies. Mostly to Christian charities. She's taken homeless people into her home and helped set them up with training and uniforms. She has always given a tithe-amount to her church despite having very little, and has gently challenged those on much higher incomes to give more than a few small coins a week. She has always been there for her kids (including me), not stinting in the support she gives. My late Dad would do anything for anybody (only partly because we needed the money as the family grew). If anyone asked for help he gave it. It was not always reciprocated by the beneficiaries of his kindness, more just taken for granted. He had to work shifts as the family grew but one of his things was that even if he was tired, he polished all the family's shoes when he came home. He was great at giving hugs, holding hands, and having fun. He loved us and showed it. And now, perhaps, some of the people at church, who give wise and gentle answers, give generously of their time, are community-oriented and live out the gospel in practical ways. I suppose some of us might be exemplars for other people (oh heck!). Gosh! Hope they can sort out the wheat (the Christ) from the chaff (my own rubbishy actions).