Twinky

You might find this article in Wikipedia helpful: Cult It's quite lengthy, but readable, and the main theme is about "deviant" beliefs ie, beliefs that deviate from norms - eg, deviate from Christian norms (but cults can and do exist around many beliefs - extremist Muslim beliefs, beliefs in extra-terrestrials, political views, TV programs, or even that one type of motorcycle or car is "better" than another). Here's an extract, from the introduction to the Wikipedia article: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In the sociological classifications of religious movements, a cult is a religious or other social group with socially deviant and novel beliefs and practices. However, whether any particular group's beliefs and practices are sufficiently deviant or novel is often unclear, and thus establishing a precise definition based on these criteria is problematic. The English word often carries derogatory connotations. The word "cult" has been controversial. One reason is that it (as used in the pejorative sense) is considered a subjective term, used as an ad hominem attack against groups with simply differing doctrines or practices, and without a clear or consistent definition. It has also been used selectively by proponents of mind control theory. Beginning in the 1930s cults became the object of sociological study in the context of the study of religious behavior. Certain groups have been labeled as cults and opposed by the Christian countercult movement for their unorthodox beliefs …

LCM took it to a new level, Rocky. The man was perpetually furious (aka spiritually angry). And his "teachings" were full of vitriol and vile language. (I learned some horrible swear words and expressions.) Yeah, LCM was a great Christian witness.

And yet ... ancient rabbinical teaching was based very much on the question/answer/dialog model. We see the young Jesus sitting at the feet of the temple leaders of the day - and they were amazed at his ability - his questions, responses, etc. I'm sure the young Jesus asked some very challenging and searching questions. And he probably got honest attempts to answer those questions, too. And since that was the modus operandi for teaching - it appears to have carried through into Jesus's ministry and that of the apostles. That is - those very apostles who set up the first century church that TWI supposedly modeled itself on.

If the way that a husband treated his wife is supposed to personify how Christ tends his "bride", the church - wow, I don't want to know that Christ - as personified by VPW, LCM and other "leaders". But as to how I see some church ministers today interact with their spouses - tenderly, courteously, respectfully, and giving appropriate honor - now, that's the Christ I want to know.

Thanks for posting that, Charlene. I wonder how long it will take before TWI starts proceedings or some other effort to get this removed? Someone ought to post this on the FB page for VPW's followers: FB page It's a closed group so I can't do it. I doubt it would last long there.

Interesting... It is (was) a "research, teaching and fellowship" ministry. Well...we know the research was plagiarism. Teaching...well that they abundantly, nay beyond abundantly, shared. Fellowship...was great at lower levels. Note what it is NOT: > Not a practical ministry > Not a "service" ministry > Not a healing or deliverance ministry > Not even a Christian "outreach" ministry!! A Christian organisation that I volunteer with has the strapline: Caring, Listening, Helping. And that's exactly what we do. A different Christian organisation that I volunteer with has the strapline: Compassion in Action. And that's exactly it does. Compare and contrast with "research, teaching and fellowship."

Newlife, it is a lovely location and an impressive big house. Which was run down at the time of TWI purchase. As well as the big house, there was a less pretty functional block the other side of a large parking area. This block housed a gymnasium and several classrooms/ offices. When first purchased, believers came from all over the UK and near-Europe and we slept on camp beds in rows in the gymnasium. There were some showers in the main house but not enough hot water. Nobody cared; we were glad to be there. As the months went by, the place gradually got upgraded. It was sold off quite a long time ago and became a Christian conference centre. It seems to be in other hands now. No doubt it was sold at a fair profit (having been upgraded). I wonder who got the sale proceeds? Probably not the Way in GB or the Way of the UK or whatever they were calling themselves at that point. Interestingly I found this website: The Way and it's NOTHING NEAR that organisation!!!!

Raf! CG impressed you?? :confused:/> with what??

For anyone who's interested, this is the place nowadays: Gartmore House The countryside is still fabulous. The place is much better than when I'd been - but then, it had only just been purchased and needed a lot of doing up.

That's why a prudent purchaser always purchases "subject to survey" or gets a survey before committing irrevocably to the purchase. Following the survey, the purchaser can (a) go ahead if the survey doesn't reveal anything costly to repair; (b) negotiate a reduction on account of necessary repairs; © withdraw from the proposed purchase. Either : (a) the leaks should have been known about in advance and the repair cost deducted from (negotiated off) the purchase price (and the price saving immediately utilised to carry out the essential repairs); or (b) no survey was done...which would have been very poor stewardship of the money. If you know these are the problems (because you've had a property survey done), why whinge about what needs to be done? Anyway...probably what caused the holes in the roof was CG's massive ego. It wouldn't fit into a building that size, LOL.

Admission: sheer miserliness. Other factors: Chris K was an electrician. CG probably thought he could demand of CK that he do it free of charge. Of his own free will, of course. When you buy something run-down - you have to budget upgrade costs into the price you pay. Admission: didn't know how to budget.

WW, back off a bit. Please. I rarely agree with John but he is entitled to his viewpoint, just as you are. You don't have to attack him at every instance. As Ralph would say ... Peace! :knuddel:/>

Geer points out in WW's extracts how difficult it was to get on with things in Scotland. There seems to be a common factor. And that's he himself. His obnoxious style put people off. It was nothing to be with being an American. It was to do with being an obnoxious American. You folks mostly haven't seen this place. It's in a stunningly beautiful location. Access (for Scotland) wasn't too bad and there is a fast motorway, the M74, going most of the way. It's close to Edinburgh, Glasgow and Falkirk. There are airports nearby (an hour or so away). The ministry had focussed around the Manchester area. There is a lot of property in the midlands and north of England that might have been suitable, had they chosen to look around. Cheap, in the north of England. It was a choice to go there. A deliberate decision - there was no need for a last-minute change. Either his ego was suffering badly at not having his own fiefdom (a good word, being as it's Scottish) or he was going to be kicked out of the US ministry anyway. Things between him and LCM were not exactly cordial. That's what prompted the decision. Not that there were no other places available. And as regards European Corps - nothing anybody else chose would ever have been good enough for him. He demoralised the EC, the believers, trashed the country coordinator ... trashed anybody. You know anything EC might have located (no matter how suitable) would be "defective" because it was all about him!

I just thought it was a fancy bit of alliteration. Spose he could have called it Wierwille the Womaniser, but it doesn't have the same ring about it...

I am sorry that your son's friend has been so brutally murdered. Even if they weren't close, it's still especially shocking to the system. All these people who have been so cruelly murdered...they're all somebody's son, perhaps someone's father, husband, lover. All these lives affected by these atrocities. To what gain?

Your q's? Qumcats? Quinces? Quinoa? Here's a recipe for quinoa and peas, to help you mind your "qs and ps" at the very least: Quinoa and peas recipe

Be pea-sistent in prayer.

Shoulda told 'em to peas off.

I've wondered about that, too, Raf. When younger, I used to read books on philosophy, other religions, lots of stuff. I'd been brought up in a Christian household and was taken to church and it was boooooorrrrriiiiiiing, with boring old people (teenage perspective). That's why I explored other ways of thinking. Nothing I read of other religions appeared consistent. I accept an outsider could say that about Christianity in all its various colors. I decided to read the Bible and started in a different place from usual. In Acts. I was riveted. It was so exciting! I wanted that as a lifestyle for myself. I wanted to find people who wanted to live like that. Soon after, I met a WoW and he showed me even more about that lifestyle, and I did meet people who lived like that. I loathed PFAL but decided to take up the challenge of reading the epistles for three months. I demanded of God that he show me if it was real, if the epistles were right or wrong, and what was true. I started to pray according to what I'd read. Guess what? When I prayed, amazing "coincidences" happened. Consistently. Life became very exciting. Some totally amazing things happened; I'm still thrilled by them. It's true I haven't explored other religions that way. But when presented a banquet of everything you want and need, why would there be any need to explore another "restaurant"?

Giving out of obligation - is just extortion. Giving out of a thankful heart - is freeing. And, though I have no Biblical evidence to support this, I feel that money given in love, from a thankful heart, achieves more than money given merely from obligation. I know this thread is in context of tithing (money) but what about tithing YOUR TIME? Genuinely getting involved in people's lives in a helpful way - at Foodbank, hospices, hospitals, worthy charities? Involved in your church's outreach program (and I don't mean door knocking)? What about giving your surplus THINGS - we have so much in material terms! How many coats, sweaters, pairs of shoes, etc do you have, and how many do you really need? (I challenge myself...I reckon I could give away a tenth of my clothes and household clutter, and still have too much) (Yep, I'm going to do some of that right now!)

Hey, I love fruit cake. Especially heavy fruit cake. And Christmas pud (at any time of year)!

The "mass" part simply means, "meal" - something you're going to eat no matter what day it is. Christmas = Christmeal. The meal to celebrate Christ's life and death became reduced from an actual meal to a sniff of wine and a pinch of bread or flimsy wafer (what kind of a meal is that!?) The eucharist, as WW says. Feel free to call every day Christmas - to celebrate his life. If you don't have any particular traditions or desire to enjoy Christmas for yourself, newlife, I wonder if you would enjoy helping others? There are lots of places that serve a Christmas meal to elderly, homeless, hospitalised or other people who are likely to feel lonely or uncared-for. Just think of it as an opportunity to serve - not as celebrating Christmas (if that helps). PS - And throw away the vile "Christmas music" and the drummer boy and the sleigh!!!!!! :( :wacko:/>

Don't fprget that "they" put Mrs W in a nursing home when her Alzheimer's got too much for them. Didn't the W family have to pay for that, though, not TWI?

Hey Rottie, are you home yet? How was Israel? What did you see, learn, enjoy?

Bolshevik, that's known as the Aaronic Blessing. It's quite widely used in churches etc and there are some lovely posters available in Christian bookstores with photos of loving-looking dads and kids etc. Even VPW didn't need to state that he was blessing the congregation using a scripture from Numbers.