Twinky

:offtopic:/> How did I come to miss this interesting thread when it was first started?? :doh:/>

Not to mention: 2 member(s) have a birthday today Rendie (54), star_is_born (53) Neither of whom I have ever seen post here. Perhaps before I arrived.

Yes, Mark, the two cats take the place of the absent kids. I am constantly amazed by the awesomeness of the people I meet - the quiet but great works they have done, are doing. No great Bible teachings, just good solid Christian service. People who dedicate their lives to working in healthcare and educational fields in African countries; found orphanages for children in ex-Communist bloc countries; start missions or schools or work projects in India and other countries, including countries with significant anti-Christian ethos; spend weekends cooking lunches or soups or meals for homeless, vulnerable or not-well-off people in this city; running groups or organisations for kids at risk or to give their parents some breathing space; even just simply visiting elderly shut-ins. Nobody shouts about this; it's just "what they do." Very quietly, very solidly. Some of the projects have grown to become international charities. And this is from just one church, with a current congregation of about 350 adults. There are loads of other people in other churches in this city that I've got to know,of the same ilk (well, I get involved too, so I don't know many "bums on seats"). I also know some top-class theologians, with good Uni degrees and post-grad study. Prodigious intellects. But they don't flaunt this. Instead, they quietly and patiently, teach, share, explain, and keep themselves firmly on the ground and not on pedestals. They don't flaunt their "Rev"ness but dress "normally" and you wouldn't know they were vicars until you got into theological conversations with them. I often wonder what I "bring to the party" - I just know that I am welcomed heartily and generously, and most people like being with me. Some even consider what I say (!) and think it wise. (Others wonder what part of "weird" I come from!)

Thank God, VPW was dead before I ever heard of him. I never thought that much of him, really, was very aware of some of the errors in PFAL videos. In any event, he was just another preacher, yeah? with some new insights, but nothing that made him holier than me or any of the other churchmen that I knew. Later, I met people that revered him in a way that was astounding to me. Many of these were people who hadn't met him. Did they even know he was dead, I wonder? As an aside, just a few months in the Word, I met Chris Geer. My first "experience" of him turned me right off. So "Look at me! Look at me!!!" with that big beam on his face. "You can ask me anything!" My second experience of him, the same or the next day, was a chance encounter in a room, just the two of us, and I asked him something or other, don't know what, but he just blanked me and looked at me like I'd brought dog mess in on my shoes. Never trusted him after that. Some later incidents of how he treated people confirmed what an unworthy leader he was.

Thank you, Broken Arrow. It's been a hard and painful journey. Hugs to you, Outie. :knuddel:/>

In the same way that Arbeit Macht Frei, in Wayworld, Classes Make You Free.

I keep being offered free upgrades from Win 8 (or 8.1) that I have on my laptop, to Win 10. I hated Win 8, would never have got it installed if I'd known how different and how idiosyncratic it is. There are many features that are intrusive, and many others that are just plain annoying. And I don't need fancy stuff for what I use my laptop (only my laptop) for. So I haven't taken up the generous offer of more trouble with Win 10. If you've got Win 10, what do you think? Good, bad, more annoying, more genuinely useful features? More trouble? Is it worth installing it - or would waiting till pushed into it be better? Wait for Win 10.#### (10.200?) before upgrading? Would welcome knowing of others' experiences.

Those classes, ultimately, were mind-control - to think narrowly like a good little Wayfer - and to learn NOT to listen to the enlarging spirit of God at work within us. God is able to work within us to will and to do of His good pleasure, without us having to learn to "operate" that self-same spirit of God. Heck, we're not even the organ-grinder's monkey. TWI was so keen on putting (trying to put) God in a box ... in prison, if you like. Perhaps we already manifested (without knowing it) WoK, WoW, DoS, etc - we "just knew" something or other. Those classes taught us to strain after God, demanding the "green light" to proceed - not encouraging and enabling us to simply relax in the warmth of His giving us what we need to know, to understand. Thank God He managed to shine his light into the little chinks in our minds that had not yet been boarded up by TWI. Isn't it fantastic when those walls of Waythink are torn down, when God's let out of prison, and we're free to simply enjoy His gifts to us.

Good post, your #16, MRAP. Doing our honest best is usually good enough. But it depends what has to be done. 80/20 rule. Knowing how or where we can improve is also worthwhile. The aggressive perfectionist is usually trying to compensate for his own imperfections.

I was looking for God. I met a WOW. He was really knowledgeable in the scriptures, and on fire for God. I met some interim Corps and they seemed to have a glow about them and they seemed vibrant with life. I felt pressured by the WOW (who himself was being pressured by the interim Corps) to take PFAL, which raised a lot of red flags for me. I became disenchanted by the non-WOW people I met after the WOWs had moved on. Not very caring, as I couldn't attend regularly because I lived in another town a long way away so they thought I was just a time-waster and not really interested. Still, I wasn't impressed by any churches and their seemingly wishy-washy message. The fog years started (not that I knew that at the time). Chris Geer came to Gartmore and started his reign of terror. I found some graduated Corps who were unhappy with (and hurt by) the leadership but were wonderful people to be around. I hung out with them for a while. They helped me a lot. Things were getting worse. I prayed and miraculously was offered a job in another country and I moved to be with a tremendously tight-knit bunch of believers. Then, I stopped by at HQ for the first time ever. I got talked into entering the WC training. That was when things really started to go wrong. I was always in trouble. Well, all the in-rez Corps was. Bullied. Threatened. Worked long days. Not enough sleep. Too much to do, always. Study hall was good, but interrupted twice a week by going out to chop wood. The constant fear of being thrown out. I'd given up a high-paying well respected profession to enter the WC - expecting to be going back into the profession to spread the word within it. Still, it was "God first" and I gave it my all, nothing half-hearted with me. Yep. I drank the Kool-Aid in abundance. Huh, that profession - and all other training - was belittled all the time I was in rez, and it became known that we weren't expected to return to our previous professions or employment types. I was belittled, constantly. There were some very weird things that happened, weird in an unpleasant way. Mostly, it was a big yell-fest. I had a WoW year. When I graduated, the area and twig that I had built up from nothing was given to someone else (male), who had been unsuccessful in his WoW year, and he immediately ran off practically everyone my family had won; the area folded. I got kicked out of the WC (at the same time, losing my engagement to another Corps person) and all the last few believers (ex-WoWs) moved out back to the city they'd come from. I was left with no-one, no support, nothing. I had no self-esteem, no inner reserves, no confidence, nothing. No thing at all. Abandoned in a foreign country and too terrified to move to another city or even back to my home country. No friends in the new country; all my family and friendships in my home country in tatters. Why? You might find this hard to believe, but the Corps Night teachings were heavy-duty indoctrination sessions about the greatness of TWI, no-one else knowing the Word, and the dangerous unreliability of mainstream Christians. I was terrified of other devil-possessed Christians. I was suspicious of everyone. I was significantly depressed, horrible, spiky, aggressive to people, and near suicidal. I would stand in front of my closet and burst into tears at the effort of choosing what clothes to wear. I burst into tears at most things, actually. My weight dropped by about 40lb; I looked so gaunt. Really, I have no idea how I functioned at all. My WoW boss had kept me on and she was a real rock. She didn't understand the inner turmoil, but her own marriage had broken down quite recently and she understood some of the pain I suffered. I spent ten years in that ultra miserable state. The Lost Years, I call them. I cannot really remember what I did. Just vague things that only occasionally fit together. Somehow, after some years, I moved back to my home country. I was still desperately miserable and depressed. I can't begin to explain to you how dark those years were. I knew I needed to get back to God. To the greatness of God's Word blah blah. I was ready to crawl over broken glass back to TWI. I needed to write the most grovelly letter ever and send to them. I looked them up on the net; needed the zip code. The google search redirected to Grease Spot Cafe. I was appalled by the horrendous stories I read (with horrified fascination) about this wonderful ministry that I'd let down so badly and disgraced myself (and God) with. But the more I read these horrifying stories on GSC, the more I saw the truth, there was a ring of truth, and I realised that how I'd been treated had been systematic abuse and psychological manipulation aimed at breaking me (and many others), but not, if you like, personal to me because I was such a rat-dang individual - just part of the pattern of abuse, especially of females. The scales fell from my eyes. My healing started. Today, I am an active member of two churches, both of which have a laid-back feel to them. I thought I was kind and compassionate before; hah, nothing to what I am now. I'm involved with poor and disadvantaged people. I recognise signs of abuse and can help people move on. I can recognise God's loving kindness and demonstrate that to other people. I am safely held in God's hands and rely completely on him. I learned a lot of stuff in study hall - all I remember is what I "taught myself" through careful study. I don't remember much of TWI teachings. I have never been able to resume my profession after so very long out of it. I am significantly financially disadvantaged. However, I have (after years of fear and worry about being "out of God's protection") bought a little house - which God directed me to - and I have a mortgage till I'm 74. I am too old or too out of touch to be employed in this economic climate, and after many years of applying and being rejected, I've set up as self-employed. It's me making the best of a bad job (as the saying goes) and I earned enough (not much more than minimum wage) to meet my very frugal needs, and to give a little to others who have a little less. My client base is erratic and I don't know from one week to the next what work I'll have, but I pray about it and out of the blue I get a phone call for someone who needs my help. I have no pension entitlements. I don't read the Bible much. I do hang out with mature Christians and discuss the workings of God's love with them. Some people consider me wise; others think I have somewhat strange ideas; one person called me an apostle; others think I'm a compassionate pastor; most think I am enthusiastic (perhaps too much so) to share God's love with others. I am very careful what I accept of teachings/ sharings/ Bible studies. I learned some very bad language which I try hard not to use and now rarely slip on. I learned some very hateful behavior, again which I try hard not to use. I learned some very hateful attitudes towards some groups of people, which I have overcome since I was never wholly convinced about these attitudes in the first place. I have repaired my severely fractured relationships with my family and with some pre-Way friends. I have never married and my long-desired children will never be born, I'm past child-bearing age now. I mourn their absence. Would I do the same again? I would seek after God. But I would listen to my wiser friends and family who weren't impressed by TWI's teachings. I wouldn't wish the misery I endured at the hands of TWI on anyone. I would wish the closeness experienced within some twigs, on every group of Christians. I can't change the past. I can only draw from it to enhance my future, and perhaps help others with their futures. I wouldn't have wished to be where I am now. I feel there is a lot that I could have done to help others, that has been stolen from me and stolen from God. I have learned to be happy with my lot. Godliness with contentment is great gain. I know God loves me and will never never leave or forsake or abandon me. Despite my many failures and weaknesses, in which He delights because He can "show off" and help me through. So, MRAP. Does that answer your question? Yes, it changed my life. For good? For bad?

Hi Allan :wave:/> And "bye" too, I think, didn't realise it was so late (1.35am)

2 Tim 3:7 The familiar version: King James Bible Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Some less familiar versions: International Standard Version - always studying but are never able to arrive at a full knowledge of the truth Douay-Rheims Bible - Ever learning, and never attaining to the knowledge of the truth. Darby Bible Translation always learning, and never able to come to [the] knowledge of [the] truth. Aramaic Bible in Plain English - Who are always learning and are never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Weymouth New Testament - and are always learning something new, and yet are never able to arrive at real knowledge of the truth. World English Bible - always learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary gives a slightly different slant: 3:1-9 ...Men love to gratify their own lusts, more than to please God and do their duty. When every man is eager for what he can get, and anxious to keep what he has, this makes men dangerous to one another. When men do not fear God, they will not regard man. ... Men are unholy and without the fear of God, because unthankful for the mercies of God. ...And when men have no rule over their own spirits, but despise that which is good and to be honoured. God is to be loved above all; but a carnal mind, full of enmity against him, prefers any thing before him, especially carnal pleasure. A form of godliness is very different from the power; from such as are found to be hypocrites, real Christians must withdraw. Such persons have been found within the outward church, in every place, and at all times. There ever have been artful men, who, by pretences and flatteries, creep into the favour and confidence of those who are too easy of belief, ignorant, and fanciful. All must be ever learning to know the Lord; but these follow every new notion, yet never seek the truth as it is in Jesus. Like the Egyptian magicians, these were men of corrupt minds, prejudiced against the truth, and found to be quite without faith. Yet though the spirit of error may be let loose for a time, Satan can deceive the nations and the churches no further, and no longer, than God will permit.

Krys, I don't know if TMVP is editing this stuff into paragraphs (and correcting spelling) but it's certainly a lot more readable and accessible. I think it's Raf continuing to combine and edit all TMVP's multitude of posts. TMVP isn't really engaging with the few posters that there are.

That sounds like an interesting thread, MRAP. How about you starting it? (You click on a button at the top to start your new thread in all of the forums here.) You will get some passionate responses Go for it!

You could add the next verse, too: 18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say , Amen. ... because people came to PFAL being spiritually blind, and VPW set himself up as The Teacher, the leader, to remove that blindness, and he and the organization that he founded have certainly caused very many to wander out of the way, the true Way; to wander away from knowing Jesus Christ - the Way, the Truth and the Life. So - doubly cursed then. It's established.

And didn't VPW teach this as meaning the landmarks (boundaries) in one's mind (Is that from Renewed Mind class, or one of those collaterals?) He did more to shift people's mental boundaries than a shedload of newspapers, TV shows and the modern media in general. He did this by abuse of trust. He shifted people's mental boundaries for one purpose ... for a "land grab" to steal people's hearts and minds. And to corrupt them. To introduce heretical ideas, and abusive and licentious behavior. He read it. He taught it. ... He's cursed. And all the ex Way people said, Amen.

The same thing? There were allegations of sexual impropriety (okay, rape) against Paul? Gosh, I didn't know that! Yes, can see why "most of the believers" would leave his ministry, and turn against him. They were wise ... if that were the case.

Modcat, can you add a few paragraph breaks when you merge his previous threads? Make them readable? (Just joking. You have enough to do already)

Waysider, great clip. I like the Singing Ladies, nice outfits too. Can you see them in the auditorium? Heh heh heh

She'll have a deputy appointed. All of the BoT / BoD whatever they call themselves now, all of them have a deputy. Donna. maybe? J0hn Rupp?

Very funny, John. The only hairstyle that I'm aware was disapproved of was on a younger Corps girl. She came back from Christmas holidays (yeah!) and had had one side of her head shaved from the area just below a "parting line." The other side was still long hair. She looked weird. Maybe there was a reason for it (her baby brother had superglued it? Her friend had spilled paint on it? She'd hung over a gas burner too long? Minor brain surgery over the hols?) She said she fancied something different and (of course) said she thought it looked fine. The Corps Coord told her to grow it out and not to keep shaving it. It might distract people from the Word. Especially if she was out witnessing. (I did agree with him about that.) (I thought it should have been a suggestion/ recommendation, though, not an order.)

Wow. I do remember (from where, I don't know) condemnation of the devilish game of D&D. Maybe Dave A had parted company with TWI by then so they felt free to condemn the game (actually the person, who no longer supported them financially). Invited to special parties. What a long way from our text at church this week, from Luke 14: (BTW I am not saying Dave A gave money so that he could gain kudos or a "higher place.")

MRAP, it is not about YOU "taking care of someone" or even "bringing into the word." YOU are only one individual. It's not (in TWI style) just your responsibility to ensure someone "gets into the Word" and even less that they "accept" the Word (that's their individual responsibility). For a start, you are not the only person in your victim's (?) life. (They were victims when we tried to get them to take the class!) It's egotistical to think that it's all down to YOU. Don't you think Jesus has other people helping the person he wants to "bring into the Word"? Other people that the intended lives with, works with, has as relatives or neighbors, fellow club members, drinking mates... We are fellow laborers with him (Jesus) and not take-over merchants that want the glory all for ourselves. Be thankful if your example or your words does help win someone. But it's highly likely that many others will have played a significant part too in sowing the seed; maybe you were just the last to add a little water or got the privilege to "harvest" - but it's not your harvest, you are still only one of many laborers. There are many ways to witness. Your lifestyle is key. Help at a food bank, with the Salvation Army, in a charity shop, doing something useful in your neighborhood. Whatever. Stand up alongside people who are oppressed. Confront the workplace bully. Don't get drunk but help those who are drunk. DO something, don't knock on doors or simply tell people. Let your life and your actions be the witness. That's the way you will "bring people to the Word." And you will show them right living at the same time. It's NOT lame to help other people. You don't know what simply being kind to someone in a soup kitchen might mean to them. Be prepared, yourself, to work alongside other Christians. You might just shock yourself with what you learn from them. Indeed, you might find yourself being "brought to the Word." The real Word. The Living Word.

A pratt of the first order and not worth engaging with. Great at wasting time, and useless and doing anything constructive. Surely drove that teacher mad.

Good reply, George.