Twinky

TMVP, try checking in one of the online Bibles, for "Adam". You will find almost all of the 27 occurrences refer to the person of what we are told is the first man (Eve's hubby) although Gen 5:2 says: 2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.[emphasis added] A further reference is to a city (in the book of Joshua, when crossing the Jordan). And then there is this ONE reference, in 1 Cor 15: 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening [live-giving] spirit. Not "the second Adam" but "the last Adam." Second Adam implies there might be another after him, the third Adam. There are NO MORE "Adams" to be referenced. From Blue Letter Bible (online resource): "Quickening" - Strongs G2227: Strong's Number G2227 matches the Greek ζῳοποιέω (zōopoieō), Outline of Biblical Usage: to produce alive, begat or bear living young to cause to live, make alive, give life by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate to restore to life to give increase of life: thus of physical life of the spirit, quickening as respects the spirit, endued with new and greater powers of life [*]metaph., of seeds quickened into life, i.e. germinating, springing up, growing The first Adam was a "living soul" - the last Adam is "a life-giving spirit." Does that make any difference to your theology, TMVP?

Dunno, waysider, you might find that there are a lot of non-trinis out there. They just go along with the standard doctrine of the church of their choice, feeling they have nowhere else to go, but finding enough spiritual succour to want to stay. For some who didn't believe trini doctrine, perhaps TWI felt like a safe place to be (more fool them... sadly).

Some scholars say that 1 & 2 Corinthians are actually fragments of other letters that have just been put together (no doubt unwittingly) and that there should be 3 and 4 Cor as well. It would be fair to say that Paul wrote many more letters than the very few that are preserved and attributed to him.

Miaow!

To do what he's (accused of) doing, he's been suffering from "a lack of oxygen framework in the brain" for a long time. At least if his larynx is damaged, he can't sweet-talk (lie to) anyone else.

About time that PoS was extradited and tried in the US.

Allan, not "sent to" NZ - commissioned in NZ. There have been WoW teams over several years now. God bless and protect the poor fools. No idea what your fave country coord is up to these days. Special training for the WoWs, perhaps :(

I'd completely agree with you that if CCTV is to be used, it ought to be kept for longer than 24 hrs before recording over it. There are various ways to record information and storage is reasonably cheap nowadays. Nobody can right the wrongs done to you, Roy, but the Healer of Broken Hearts can surely work wonders. Truly. It's good (and healing) for you to push for this to protect other children currently going through the school system.

George, simple statement of fact. I'm just saying that even where there are lots of CCTV cameras, there are still blind spots in spaces where there are cameras, and some places (like toilets!) that you wouldn't really want them. Those who wish to bully and abuse others soon locate the "blind spots." I don't know whether having cameras around is a good thing or a bad thing. Who has access to the footage? Certainly in the UK, there are few public places you can go where there aren't at least a few CCTV cameras. People and nefarious activities have been identified from security cameras attached to ("protecting") shops, bank teller machines, homes, within cars, you name it. And in schools, many children nowadays own mobile phones and are skilled at using them. And in fact, mobiles (cellphones) are themselves often used as a means of bullying other schoolkids.

Hello, Roy, it is nice to see you back here again after so long. You haven't been around for a while. I don't know about schools, but certainly in the UK some nurseries/pre-schools have CCTV that the parents can log into. I am not sure if that is a good thing or a bad one. Perhaps it is the additional confidence that it gives some parents, that they are able to observe their child should they so choose - rather than them actually observing their child. But there will always be places that there aren't CCTV cameras, where children can be abused, bullied or molested.

Looks like he's 72 today. Happy birthday, John. Time to retire. You've done your three score and ten, and then some.

Thomas - I think I was mistaken, it was another person by the same name but apparently much younger.

Shortfuse, I think the nearest you might find would be the work that the late John Juedes has done in considering TWI and its various offshoots. Have a look at his website: Juedes - EmpireNet What are you trying to achieve by your enquiry? If you can be more specific about what you want to know, you may find that there are other websites that people here are aware of.

I hope this comes up as a separate post... Our comprehension of words in our native languages varies: even simple nouns have cultural overlays. Verbs have other connotations. Tenses have different meanings: "I walked" is different in meaning from "I was walking" or "I used to walk" and even "I ambled, I paced, I strode, I dawdled," but all of these (and others) are in past tenses relating to similar actions. If you consider what words meant even 100 years ago, you'll find many have changed meanings, sometimes quite radically, even to meaning almost their opposites. What did such a word mean 1,000 years ago (if it even existed)? In pre-Christ times (BC) there are Egyptian, Sumerian, and other ancient texts. Do these translate exactly? Maybe, but more likely not. How can we possibly know the full range of meaning of an ancient word? The cultural nuances escape us, even if we have similar words to describe the nuances we do perceive. And when it comes to more abstract words, was "love" the same 100 years ago as now? 1000 years ago? I am not sure that we can say it is. Because human beings have developed huge cultural differences in how they relate to each other. All that can be said is: we should love one another, as God loves us, and we should love and be kind, to the best of our ability and understanding of what that means. The imagery of the Bible is perhaps more helpful. We can all understand a mother hen tucking her chicks under her wings. Even if a mother hen (probably) doesn't perceive "love" exactly as a human being does.

Interesting post, Steve. If we think of God in parental terms, well heck, a parent treats each of his or her several children a bit differently according to the child's personality, abilities, quirks - and age. And sometimes the instruction to one child differs (and may contradict) that given to another child. How does the parent want to train, guide or discipline each child? What is necessary to bring out the best in each child? Which less desirable aspects need to be curbed? What child really understands what his parents' overall goal is? And what parent treats his 50 year old kids like the five year olds they once were? God has a bigger picture than any human parent. His vision stretches from eternity to eternity. Way far bigger than we can begin to imagine. There might be apparent contradictions. Actual contradictions. Maybe when we see from the perspective of eternity, they won't be contradictions at all.

I don't think it was even Word over Ohio. Or Indiana. Or Emporia, KS. Think how many people despised VPW in New Knoxville and surrounding areas. He might say they'd had the offer of "the Word" and rejected it ... not true. They rejected him, VPW - not Christ, not God, not the church. In all those states, no doubt you'll find plenty of people who love and respect the Living Word, Jesus Christ.

"The first century church in the 20th century" - or even worse, the 21st century. What a shocking defamation of the 1st century church. Are proponents also saying that the 1st century church was riddled with sexual immorality, and by persecutions of the fledgling church - by itself? That all the donations given, for example for the famine relief in Jerusalem, ended up in the pockets of the eleven apostles who hadn't the guts to move out of Jerusalem? That having all things in common meant that some didn't bother to share what they had - "what's yours is mine, and what's mine is my own"? Was VPW following in their footsteps by abusing his own body, even "giving his eye" for the cause? Even if giving it was self-inflicted by years of smoking, drinking and other bodily abuse? Not really quite the same as being flogged, stoned, crucified, thrown into prison, for his beliefs. There are Christians in other countries for whom these abuses are a real and daily threat. Read about what goes on in Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, South Korea, and yes, even in China, to name but a few. Here's a link: Persecuted Christians Now those people might have some justification for saying they're the first century church in the 20th/21st century. But not people in rich and free-thinking USA or Europe.

"Thousands," huh? Really.

The accompanying photo would really encourage you in thinking what a vibrant and exciting ministry it is ... not! Any other church would have a photo of ... waving holy hands; people moving about or dancing; maybe eating (what you do when you celebrate, no?); something that indicated life and vitality. True there are hands of the audience (can't really call it a congregation) applauding, but the people on stage look as if they were carved from wood, they're so rigid, formal and uninspiring. They look like they're wearing as under-garments the straight-jackets that they want to put "their people" into. I'm sorry to see that New Zealand is still in Waywarp and has sent out its own group of "Disciples." What fools.

Long time anyone's posted on this thread. I thought this merited a mention: Seth R on the Just the Facts thread in About the Way:

... a new class ... :yawn1:/>

Thanks, WW, for re-posting that record.

DWBH, the question Oakspear asked was this: and I'd be interested on your take on what you'd been told it was about. What you expected to be doing (outside of what the reality was). Where and how you expected to minister to Wayfers. Did you think you'd be taken seriously by non-Way ordained ministers? What were your expectations of this role?

Thank you, Charlene. Chockfull, when I first started attending my parent church, I daringly walked out a few times if I didn't like what was being said or sung. Because I could! Condemnation? None!! Also, I deliberately turned up late - because I could. Condemnation?? None!! I understand your irrational fear when perhaps a phrase or particular word is used. Heh, heh, funny story: about 15 or so years after I'd been M&A and when I was first tenatively starting to heal and get to know God again, my Mum asked me to go with her to a Christmas carol concert put on by the Salvation Army. I wasn't keen on the concert but did want to accompany her. It was all okay until the MC said, "And now the Corps will sing to us," and my jaw dropped, a pang went through me, it felt as though my very long hair was standing on end, and my body went into fight/ flight mode. I'm wary of people who try to guilt me into doing anything, but haven't met that at any time in my church experiences here. Only openness and acceptance. I was thinking more of doctrinal points where I don't fully understand, or where mine differs from more mainstream Christians. As I've met and worked alongside people from other churches and denominations, I find we're often a bit different and it doesn't matter. Where we all speak with the same voice is where we love God, the Lord Jesus, and enjoy working in and out from grace. I don't raise controversial points (Trinity) because actually it simply doesn't matter.

Thanks, Chockfull. It's taken a lot of work to get to where I am now. After I got M&A'd I spent ten years down the bottom of a deep dark miserable well, unable to face life, people, anything and anyone. The lost years, I call that time. Then, extreme misery compelled me to act and I was going to crawl over broken glass or whatever, to get back to TWI. Instead, I got waylaid by GSC. And I started to heal, started to recover my thinking capacity, started to feel the warmth of God's love. Lots of miraculous things happened to me then. Like God was showering me with all that love and those gifts that I'd been hiding from before, when I was down that well. He found me a church where there was space to just be, gentle kind people, great teaching... People, strangers, befriended me and made space for me in their lives and in their homes. :knuddel:/> I said weird cult-head things :redface:/>, got strange looks :blink:/>, but nobody tore my head off for not group-thinking. :rolleyes:/> My pre-TWI friends and family welcomed "me" back. :eusa_clap:/> Long-term, I don't think my "identity" - my core being - has changed except to get back to where it was, the person I used to be before TWI got its hooks into me - but my "identity" is deeper and richer and with more to give now. More compassion and understanding for underprivileged and beaten-down people. And a lot more peace of heart. Still some big confusions; maybe everyone has those? None of us really has all the answers! Life is very good :dance:/>.