Twinky

Thomas - I think I was mistaken, it was another person by the same name but apparently much younger.

Shortfuse, I think the nearest you might find would be the work that the late John Juedes has done in considering TWI and its various offshoots. Have a look at his website: Juedes - EmpireNet What are you trying to achieve by your enquiry? If you can be more specific about what you want to know, you may find that there are other websites that people here are aware of.

I hope this comes up as a separate post... Our comprehension of words in our native languages varies: even simple nouns have cultural overlays. Verbs have other connotations. Tenses have different meanings: "I walked" is different in meaning from "I was walking" or "I used to walk" and even "I ambled, I paced, I strode, I dawdled," but all of these (and others) are in past tenses relating to similar actions. If you consider what words meant even 100 years ago, you'll find many have changed meanings, sometimes quite radically, even to meaning almost their opposites. What did such a word mean 1,000 years ago (if it even existed)? In pre-Christ times (BC) there are Egyptian, Sumerian, and other ancient texts. Do these translate exactly? Maybe, but more likely not. How can we possibly know the full range of meaning of an ancient word? The cultural nuances escape us, even if we have similar words to describe the nuances we do perceive. And when it comes to more abstract words, was "love" the same 100 years ago as now? 1000 years ago? I am not sure that we can say it is. Because human beings have developed huge cultural differences in how they relate to each other. All that can be said is: we should love one another, as God loves us, and we should love and be kind, to the best of our ability and understanding of what that means. The imagery of the Bible is perhaps more helpful. We can all understand a mother hen tucking her chicks under her wings. Even if a mother hen (probably) doesn't perceive "love" exactly as a human being does.

Interesting post, Steve. If we think of God in parental terms, well heck, a parent treats each of his or her several children a bit differently according to the child's personality, abilities, quirks - and age. And sometimes the instruction to one child differs (and may contradict) that given to another child. How does the parent want to train, guide or discipline each child? What is necessary to bring out the best in each child? Which less desirable aspects need to be curbed? What child really understands what his parents' overall goal is? And what parent treats his 50 year old kids like the five year olds they once were? God has a bigger picture than any human parent. His vision stretches from eternity to eternity. Way far bigger than we can begin to imagine. There might be apparent contradictions. Actual contradictions. Maybe when we see from the perspective of eternity, they won't be contradictions at all.

I don't think it was even Word over Ohio. Or Indiana. Or Emporia, KS. Think how many people despised VPW in New Knoxville and surrounding areas. He might say they'd had the offer of "the Word" and rejected it ... not true. They rejected him, VPW - not Christ, not God, not the church. In all those states, no doubt you'll find plenty of people who love and respect the Living Word, Jesus Christ.

"The first century church in the 20th century" - or even worse, the 21st century. What a shocking defamation of the 1st century church. Are proponents also saying that the 1st century church was riddled with sexual immorality, and by persecutions of the fledgling church - by itself? That all the donations given, for example for the famine relief in Jerusalem, ended up in the pockets of the eleven apostles who hadn't the guts to move out of Jerusalem? That having all things in common meant that some didn't bother to share what they had - "what's yours is mine, and what's mine is my own"? Was VPW following in their footsteps by abusing his own body, even "giving his eye" for the cause? Even if giving it was self-inflicted by years of smoking, drinking and other bodily abuse? Not really quite the same as being flogged, stoned, crucified, thrown into prison, for his beliefs. There are Christians in other countries for whom these abuses are a real and daily threat. Read about what goes on in Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, South Korea, and yes, even in China, to name but a few. Here's a link: Persecuted Christians Now those people might have some justification for saying they're the first century church in the 20th/21st century. But not people in rich and free-thinking USA or Europe.

"Thousands," huh? Really.

The accompanying photo would really encourage you in thinking what a vibrant and exciting ministry it is ... not! Any other church would have a photo of ... waving holy hands; people moving about or dancing; maybe eating (what you do when you celebrate, no?); something that indicated life and vitality. True there are hands of the audience (can't really call it a congregation) applauding, but the people on stage look as if they were carved from wood, they're so rigid, formal and uninspiring. They look like they're wearing as under-garments the straight-jackets that they want to put "their people" into. I'm sorry to see that New Zealand is still in Waywarp and has sent out its own group of "Disciples." What fools.

Long time anyone's posted on this thread. I thought this merited a mention: Seth R on the Just the Facts thread in About the Way:

... a new class ... :yawn1:/>

Thanks, WW, for re-posting that record.

DWBH, the question Oakspear asked was this: and I'd be interested on your take on what you'd been told it was about. What you expected to be doing (outside of what the reality was). Where and how you expected to minister to Wayfers. Did you think you'd be taken seriously by non-Way ordained ministers? What were your expectations of this role?

Thank you, Charlene. Chockfull, when I first started attending my parent church, I daringly walked out a few times if I didn't like what was being said or sung. Because I could! Condemnation? None!! Also, I deliberately turned up late - because I could. Condemnation?? None!! I understand your irrational fear when perhaps a phrase or particular word is used. Heh, heh, funny story: about 15 or so years after I'd been M&A and when I was first tenatively starting to heal and get to know God again, my Mum asked me to go with her to a Christmas carol concert put on by the Salvation Army. I wasn't keen on the concert but did want to accompany her. It was all okay until the MC said, "And now the Corps will sing to us," and my jaw dropped, a pang went through me, it felt as though my very long hair was standing on end, and my body went into fight/ flight mode. I'm wary of people who try to guilt me into doing anything, but haven't met that at any time in my church experiences here. Only openness and acceptance. I was thinking more of doctrinal points where I don't fully understand, or where mine differs from more mainstream Christians. As I've met and worked alongside people from other churches and denominations, I find we're often a bit different and it doesn't matter. Where we all speak with the same voice is where we love God, the Lord Jesus, and enjoy working in and out from grace. I don't raise controversial points (Trinity) because actually it simply doesn't matter.

Thanks, Chockfull. It's taken a lot of work to get to where I am now. After I got M&A'd I spent ten years down the bottom of a deep dark miserable well, unable to face life, people, anything and anyone. The lost years, I call that time. Then, extreme misery compelled me to act and I was going to crawl over broken glass or whatever, to get back to TWI. Instead, I got waylaid by GSC. And I started to heal, started to recover my thinking capacity, started to feel the warmth of God's love. Lots of miraculous things happened to me then. Like God was showering me with all that love and those gifts that I'd been hiding from before, when I was down that well. He found me a church where there was space to just be, gentle kind people, great teaching... People, strangers, befriended me and made space for me in their lives and in their homes. :knuddel:/> I said weird cult-head things :redface:/>, got strange looks :blink:/>, but nobody tore my head off for not group-thinking. :rolleyes:/> My pre-TWI friends and family welcomed "me" back. :eusa_clap:/> Long-term, I don't think my "identity" - my core being - has changed except to get back to where it was, the person I used to be before TWI got its hooks into me - but my "identity" is deeper and richer and with more to give now. More compassion and understanding for underprivileged and beaten-down people. And a lot more peace of heart. Still some big confusions; maybe everyone has those? None of us really has all the answers! Life is very good :dance:/>.

chockfull, I didn't bail out, I was cast out (and then heaped with slander, of course). I hold nothing against my fiance; I held a lot against the interfering person whom I have since forgiven. We were all so Waybrained but I was the bottom of the heap, so I got the most kicking. You know how it was. Whatever happened was because the woman wasn't meek enough. I still like my fiance (now 10+ years married to someone else) and think that if we'd been left alone to get on with life, we'd have been happy enough together. It seems that we actually have quite a lot of things in common that weren't clearly seen while we were involved with TWI. Unlikely ever to meet again, but if the opportunity arose, I'd fight anyone to try to keep his marriage safe from interference by others.

In the words of Princess Diana: "There were three of us in this marriage." She meant, the other woman. I mean: the nearest MoG / wannabe. I wasn't married - but I did get engaged. My fiance and I would discuss something and agree on it; then the twig leader above him (my own immature Corps bro) would say something else and the fiance would do that - something quite different from what we'd agreed. If I said anything ("Why did you do that thing opposite from what we'd agreed?"), I was told to defer, to be meek to my fiance. Goodness knows what a marriage would have been like. Nuff said. I'll get angry soon... :realmad:/>

Self-structured, yeah, right. Structure your time around: doing your laundry, fixing your clothes if they needed repair, waxing your boots if going LEAD, writing to your spiritual partners, catching up on sleep, get ready for the next meeting in a few hours, etc. Not too much to do I suppose, bearing in mind that you weren't allowed off campus without express permission and another person to accompany you (you'd also need transport). Yep, one's whole world encompassed by the boundaries of a small farm in NK. And don't forget that that was only for a few months - when preps for the Rock started, there was even less free time.

Jesus died for all, right? For Jew and for Gentile; and for Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, animist, atheist, witch, warlock, rich person, homeless street dweller, and all other human beings. Jesus thought the price he was to pay was worth it, for all these people. ALL these people. So who is anyone to say that any other person *isn't worth it"? Who is entitled to "look down on" any other person? Regardless of their beliefs and apparent standing in a "church" or their supposed membership of the "Body of Christ." Gal6:10 tells us: "As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith." >>>>>> "Especially" is not another word for "exclusively." <<<<<< Here's that verse in context - an exhortation not to be picky or to demand entrance to "the club" - if you're interested: Gal 6:9-15

Good one, krys.

Is it "fairly well known that there were lesbian relationships"? Donna and Rosie, certainly, and the two women living in the basement (one of whom claimed to have been delivered from lesbianism). Others? I don't know. I wasn't aware of any of that whilst I was in rez. Craig spent months on Corps nights yelling about homos. Months! Months venting his "spiritual anger" upon us. And routing or outing males supposedly caught "in flagrante." Whether they really were or not, who knows. One of the men so "outed" had been very keen on me at one time (until that friendship got banned by LCM) and I got no sense that that man was other than interested in women. It was the standard departure slander, to say that a male was homosexual and a female was lesbian; I doubt most of it was true...maybe some were, but so many? If there were so many homos/lesbians, what had happened to CP1 (in-depth spiritual perception and awareness) that either or both of VPW/LCM had let these people get in/these devil spirits infiltrate? (And don't give me that "fog years" junk). Really, LCM was venting his anger and frustration at the way his wife was being stolen from him by Rosie. A bit of a change, the boot on the other foot - when he had stolen so many other men's wives. A taste of his own medicine - and he felt powerless to stop it. Serves him bloody well right.

Just to make it clear, it was DWBH's post #21 above that was edited - what DWBH said - not what I said (above).

I don't think pro-abortion was about controlling the minions, MRAP; it was more about attempting to controlling the evidence that this "church" advocated "free love" among its head men and needed to keep that hidden from the general public (and its own followers). That attituded filtered down and eventually reached the twigs. where people had already been primed in PFAL. If there is free love among the twig members and some of them might have had abortions, it would be easier to attack those same women if they came into the Corps: their barriers against this had already been broken down.

DWBH, you make the above allegation - but how do you know this?

Very often, people who have been either heavily dependent on drugs, or in prison (let's just say, captured, for both) go through a sort of arrested development. When they come out of prison, or get free of their drugs - there their old self is, but delayed by the period they've been captured. So if someone goes to prison at age 18 for 7 or 8 years, in many ways they're still only 18 when released. And for druggies, the same. And that's despite a lot of experiences, mostly unpleasant, that were enjoyed or endured whilst captured. That's because the normal emotional growing up that they would do with their peer group has been suspended. Now think : TWI as imprisonment, drugged-up, etc.

Hit singles? You mean, like that song that made it onto YouTube - The Renewed Mind is the Key - like that? :evildenk:/> I won't offend your ears and eyes by posting it again. Ah! You didn't mean songs that were singles...