Twinky

You make a good point, Rocky. In fact, there could be some pretty odd conversations between different Chat programs. Would they "realise"?

STL, without checking the references/reading the passages in context, I wonder if some of those strictures (rather than commandments) are in the nature of hyperbole, to underline how serious God's view of something is. (Bit tough on decent men, however, if they did have a physical deformity. Interesting, though, that a man could be as mad as a hatter and there's no complaint against service by such a man.) It could be, however, something that points to no human being really being worthy - except the Lord Jesus himself. Who indeed is physically perfect? As to the reference to Lot and his daughters, there was a lot of cultural significance in (1) carrying on the bloodline [of the male] and (2) women having lots of children [to demonstrate the virility of the male?]. Depending on the time period, there may, or may not, have been a lot of strictures about women having children outside of wedlock. Deut 22 has some suggestions, but that's much later than Genesis. It appears from the fact that the daughters were prepared to have intercourse with their father, that there weren't the taboos against incest that are prevalent nowadays.

As usual, this thread has veered off topic and is now a discussion about VPW, whereas it was originally about LCM starting his own offshoot. In light of the topic heading, maybe people might want to consider LCM in light of the information and descriptors in Joe Navarro's comments, as reported by T-Bone. IMO, he suffers from many of these traits. I draw your attention to point 35 in the list below.

This popped up in my Facebook feed today. Some of you might be interested in adding to your back copies. Do t ask me info. Don't shoot me either, I'm just the messenger. I suspect the email address should be Gmail.com. God bless you. I would like to sell my research books as well as other ministry specific items, including Way magazine, catalog, and other books from the ministry. Curious as if this is the place to do it or not. I have personally been off of Facebook for quite a few years and have recently dipped my toe back into the water If anyone is so inspired to help me to unload research material as well as older ministry stuff, I would be very grateful. Please feel free to email me. bobbyverdi@gmail

Mt 5: 43You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘Hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,s 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Do not even tax collectors do the same? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even Gentiles do the same? See, you can get blessings whether you are righteous or unrighteous - whether you do what TWI says, or whether you are a grease spot by midnight. You get sun and rain just the same. God's blessings don't depend on us being part of some organisation, or indeed on anything at all apart from God's goodness. However: Php4:Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you. If you want God's peace as well as his general blessings, there are things that you need to do. And: John 16:23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in My name. Ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. You get blessings because of your confidence and trust in God. Not because of your confidence and trust in some orgnisation. Especially a corrupt one.

I don't think they were cunning, most of them. I think they too were brainwashed. Had learned sychophantic and spying techniques. Definitely learned "reporting back" and if instructed, harassing or threatenig perceived offenders. But weren't cunning as such.

If you haven't already done this, or haven't done it recently, it would be worthwhile checking out EVERY scripture that Jesus quoted and referring back to the OT and reading the whole context surrounding the quote. Why did he say that thing at that time? To which people? What situation is being referenced in the OT, and how does that reflect on the situation that Jesus is addressing? Certainly the whole context would have been part of the whole reference brought in with just a few words, to the hearers. Just as the saying "The word of God is the will of God" brings with it to Wayfers a whole raft of connotations, so what Jesus said would bring with it a whole raft of scriptural and rabbinical teachings of the time.

Exactly! Even all these years, decades, later, I can't easily the epistles in AV (KJV). Too much negative background. The way I overcame this was to read The Message version, which is so simplistic whilst still delivering the same message. My mind simply could not run in PFAL tramlines. And then, I read various other versions. Now, I read one or two particular versions. My church uses NIV, which I don't particularly like.

Hi Extremist. I read here at the Cafe for a few months before I got posting. I couldn't stop reading! It was so shocking - and enlightening. Later, I found The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse (recommended above) a real eye-opener. With each chapter I read, it seemed as though everything in my heart was getting lighter. Couldn't put it down. Felt like I was floating on air when I'd finished it because all the burdens laid on by TWI had been taken away. And it doesn't even mention TWI, just goes on about typical culty behaviour. As the Good Book says: the truth will set you free. I'd suggest you read some of the better threads - first few pages are usually the most interesting, then they sometimes get derailed, but may get back on track. You will find a variety of opinions and views here, some of which will annoy you and some of which you will agree with. That's fine! Means you are beginning to think clearly again. Form your own opinion. It's very interesting when we see new people here, still a bit Waybrained and parroting the company line, and then we see them starting to put it together for themselves and really engaging with - with themselves, mostly. Enjoying the right to look outside of the Way tramlines. You may find it helpful to join a good church that preaches the gospel. Try not to be too critical in what you think of people and the gospel message presented. Are the congregation pleasant, welcoming; or aloof and disengaged? Do they appear to care about each other and socialise before or after the service? Is the message soothing and uplifting, or condemnatory? You do not have to share anything about yourself that you are not truly comfortable doing. Most of us here don't discuss our culty pasts with people we don't know well - or even then. Some people have found Divorce self-help groups useful to deal with the trauma of separation from what you've invested your life in. But having said that, a true and trusted, empathetic, non-judgmental friend or maybe a couple of friends (no more) with whom you can be very honest, may be very helpful in being a sounding board to help you sort yourself out. Your recovery strategy may to some extent depend on how you left TWI - voluntarily or kicked out, M&A'd or less viciously, and how long you'd been in. Feel free to post your wackiest thoughts here. We have all been through the process of re-setting our courses post-TWI. Some still espouse Christianity, others don't want a shred of it. We want to help people like you.

It's interesting. People have received this postcard and it has brought some old posters back to this site, people who haven't been seen in a while. Perhaps they have been lurking, watching without posting. Would be good if we could get the database that TWI is using, and send everyone The Other Side (GSC) postcards . Not going to happen, of course.

You got one too, BecomingMe?!! Hmph. Couldn't get the Weirwille family to "stand," so they think they'll have a go with the Martindale family?

Waysider! Naughty, naughty! Ouija board, maybe...?

Actually, I think that sums things up very nicely, T-Bone. We here can all see the counterfeit "GP" at work within us (well, all of us except one).

How do they know who to send these postcards to, anyway? If someone's been kicked out, especially out of the WC, who knows where that person might have departed to - and where those individuals might be now, several if not many, years later. Please don't tell me that they have a "research department" to research where ex-Wayfers are now living - by trawling through phone records, previous addresses, any recorded next of kin for ex-Wayfers, and contacting current Wayfers in the last known state. That would be akin to stalking.

Heh heh, all of us here have well "shared our testimony." I don't think it's the testimony TWI will want shared with potential new recruits. Or with current members who want to call us back to Wayland.

In all honesty, if the "great principle" causes such blindness in understanding the things of God; if it causes such stubbornness in recognising evil; if it causes one to think that Jesus Christ will return with the orange book in his hand - well, all I can say is I really don't want it, I don't want any of that. What works for me is praise and thanksgiving, acknowledging God in all my ways, and respecting (and to the best of my ability obeying) the things expected of me by God. Then I have peace, and, somehow, gentle knowledge manifests itself and I "just know" the right thing to do or say or understand. Seems a lot simpler than tying oneself in knots understanding some "great principle" that nobody can agree on - and that God didn't think important enough to spell out in minute (or any) detail in his Owners Manual.

There's another work party tomorrow (Saturday) with a view to cleaning the inside of this tatty old building. The idea is to do "warm space" in here, and bring it back into community use. (However the actual church building next door is fully heated, so why move to this horrible temporary building for Warm Space?) Anyway, it will be good to get the community back into going to the building for something. And the work party will be good. Hopefully some members of the wider community will come and help, not just church members. Working together will build links, too.

Who cares? Mike's playing games again. Mike, don't you get it? Most of us here have moved on - moved way on - in our thinking from the little box in which VPW wanted to imprison us. Do YOU remember what the one single key idea that should have run through all the Way ministry's teachings ought to have been? Unlike you - I will give you a clue. It is to do with the fact that GOD LOVES US unconditionally and would really like it if we would love HIM back. Love him. And not some man, or some idol, or some book or some thing.

Not sure this is true. Where did VPW get this "claim"? It's not "awareness" of fault, but genuine repentance and a change of lifestyle that will "transform into grace."

Bling (Merriam Webster) The meaning of BLING is flashy jewelry worn especially as an indication of wealth or status; broadly : expensive and ostentatious ... Pretty much what TWI was: flashy, looking expensive (rare knowledge) and ostentatious (We're the only ones who know this! Pin back your ears!) OldSkool: you probably meant "blind guides" but "bling" seems to sorta fit...

Against this background, maybe one could say that the alleged 1942 promise was very successful. This story kept VPW from having to do anything worthwhile, and it gave him potential access to single females. It in fact was successful. It's kept a fake ministry going for 80 years, it sucked all of us in, one way or another. But the content - "I'll teach you the Word like it hasn't been known..." - outright fabrication.

Back to 1942. Let's see. World War 2. Many theologians, especially in Germany and continental Europe, were being persecuted for their beliefs and for their active resistance to Nazi dictats. Many other Christians set up various support networks to help escapees from persecution, at risk of, and often at cost of, their own lives. And many other lives, Jewish and otherwise, were saved. Some of these rescuers are honoured by Israel as being "righteous among the nations." Churches, especially in Germany, were corrupted and only allowed to preach an adulterated version of Christianity that supported the Nazi Aryan view. But many ministers stood up against such requirements and were themselves imprisoned and some murdered, for their stance. Some we know about, many others we don't know about. Here are some events and people you may have heard of. They lived their faith - and taught many others. Against this background, a nonentity, lazy, cowardly mid-west American man has the idea to have a fake vision and thereafter avoids doing any serious work of his own. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Righteous_Among_the_Nations_by_country - if you read this carefully, you'll see many churches and church leaders listed (esp in the Netherlands section) - there's no telling without checking every name whether their faith sparked their resistance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer - his works are still widely published and read. Well respected, and his writings are still influential. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrie_ten_Boom - her works are still widely published and read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsie_ten_Boom

1942. Let's see. What else was going on at that time? The rest of the world was engaged in violent conflict. The USA was slow to this party, not joining until December 1941. In the USA, young men were being rounded up and sent overseas to fight. The draft was approved September 1940. By December 1941 America's military had grown to nearly 2.2 million soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines. By late 1942 all men aged 18 to 64 were required to register for the draft, though in practice the system concentrated on men under 38. The draft boards considered factors like the importance of a man's occupation to the war effort, his health, and his family situation. Many men volunteered rather than wait to be drafted. That way, they could choose their branch of service. I cannot recall how old VPW would be at that time. I can foresee that setting up his own church might be seen as a way to escape being drafted. I don't know if clergymen were drafted, or might volunteer because they could provide succour to fighting men; both happened in other countries. I can also foresee that, with men being drafted and sent overseas, that would provide a fair number of temporarily unaccompanied nubile females. Perhaps New Knoxville, being a farming area, might have a number of exemptions, since food production might be an essential industry (though in other countries, women did the farming, because the men were away fighting - or dead). Nonetheless, there were likely to be more "single" females who might welcome a hug (or more) from a "kindly" (?) minister. Against this backdrop, finding an excuse not to get drafted might become of prime importance to a lazy, cowardly man. He might be able glibly to claim that he could provide home succour and comfort, keep up morale, etc.

Right, so J and LCM had a long-standing thing. WHY would Ed put up with that? Repeatedly - over a long period, by the sound of it. Why would any husband put up with that? Why?? Yet I know that G@ry B@rnes knew his wife J@nuary was seeing LCM. He'd watch her get ready: she told me this, years later. She told me he felt powerless to stop her. And she had changed, to feel that he was contemptible and weak. How can that wicked man LCM make a man feel so? How can an organisation make men and women feel so? (I think I'll just go upstairs and scream quietly into my pillow. So angry!) Thank God P@ul Allen wasn't powerless to stop what was happening to his wife, despite both inducements and threats.

I don't like to ask. Don't like to imagine. Tell me this is imagination, and didn't happen.