Twinky

Ah, no thanks. Actually I did quite enjoy the RoAs that I attended but I was working all the time so it was different from "field" people coming in. And setting up for RoA was often fun, too, a respite from the usual very boring and repetitive things that we endured in rez. However... There's a big Christian festival for two weeks every summer in my country. Churches from all over get invite people to attend (no pressure) and often camp in "church groups" though again no obligation. I find I can't bring myself to attend, no enthusiasm - in fact, a profound wariness of group celebration. of this type. So I suppose RoA and the forced fun that the general populace seemed to have has left its mark on me. Maybe I should make the effort and dispose of that bugbear.

No song, but my Thursday evening (yesterday) was spent sitting outside enjoying a delicious home-cooked meal of pork loin chop, six different fresh veges, followed by sticky toffee pudding topped with ice cream; and accompanied by a tasty bottle of red wine, Merlot. All beside my firepit, which was burning perfectly, brightly to start and a lovely deep warming glow later.

Interpretation, whatever. You need to look at the whole Bible to understand what Jesus knew. And then you have to figure out his understanding of it, which will include some cultural taboos at various times throughout the OT and during his lifetime. Did Jesus "interpret" in relation only to Jewish culture? After all, he didn't visit Gentiles in their homes and we have no indication that he ate other than kosher meats. He was in many ways a strict Jew. And yet he saw much bigger things. He understood and foresaw "all nations" coming into God's love. And he certainly cut through cultural barriers of his time, by speaking with and (gasp) even touching women, to heal and to help. I would recommend the book The Bible Jesus Read, by Philip Yancey - you can pick it up at various bookshops including online secondhand places. The Bible Jesus Read | Philip Yancey | 9780310231868 | Awesome Books. It's very readable and will give you a new perspective.

Way to go! ... not. A very painful way to die, and to achieve absolutely nothing for it. He could have achieved so much more had he chosen to protest by a less violent method. I don't know that that would have been part of his cultic background, though.

We here have pretty much all had to deal with these issues, one way or another, even in not "born into" TWI. This place is but a shadow of what it used to be, but there is a lot of help and healing in the earlier posts. I stumbled across GSC - oh my, it must be 20 years ago - and what I read then firstly enraged me ("who would say such things about such a wonderful ministry?!") and then healed me, as I realised that it wasn't me that was so screwed up and useless, it was and is TWI. The wisdom and help available is immense, if you can seek it out. We've been there. We understand, without you having to explain. ("Why didn't you just walk away?" "What's the matter with you?" "You're so weak/stupid/...") Help, and be helped. It's why this place is here. Even after all these long years.

Wonder what happened to any of these CORPORATE ASSETS. Cars, motorcycles, plane(s), bus(es). Should have been sold if surplus to requirements, and the money go into general residue for the benefit of those entitled under the CHARITABLE PURPOSES of TWI. I'm guessing that the charitable purposes could well have been the private, individual, livings of head honchos. The more abundant lies life, and all that, y'know.

Crommett is a director on a number of overseas subsidiaries. Don't know anything of him personally.

Dunno, Charity. There were wars before and wars after the promise of specific land. Wars, famine, water access/rights, minerals... Greed, and refusal to share, is what runs the world as we know it. And such will continue until our planet is exhausted. (What worries me is that this is continuing into space, with people now wanting to mine the moon and asteroids - as if someone has rights to those, hahahaha.) (But that thought is way off topic.) A good question we can't know the answer to. Maybe ask it when Christ returns? According to VPW, that's what Eve thought ("I have gotten a man from the Lord."). But I don 't believe that interpretation. Sometimes people have to hit rock bottom before they can accept help - they "come to the end of themselves." Maybe that's where society was then?

The way I've always understood this is: God grants a chunk of land to certain peoples whom he favours, to keep them safe and to give them a base. Also, he had a plan for redemption and that plan needed a safe place for the Promised Seed to be raised in safety, surrounded by safe people. A "layette," if you like, in modern parlance. A baby cot, perhaps. As the Israelites entered the Promised Land, God himself says that he will clear it as they advanced; they would not have to fight for it. Deut 2 sets out some of this, but there is much in the early chapters of the Bible on this theme. In fact, the Israelites never fully, properly, occupied all of the land that was promised to them. The far northern part was never fully realised. In the parts where they lived, farmed, prospered, the Israelites were to be an example to the nations around them. They were to welcome strangers (reminding them that they were once strangers in a strange land - Egypt), and allow them to live in their land, their community, without harassment. The Israelites were to have no king, no "boss man" but were to look to God as their leader and protector. They were not supposed to have horses etc and put their trust in material defences. They were to look to the Lord and pray for his protection. Time progressed, they demanded a king, some of the Israelites fell away, and God had to narrow his vision to protecting the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. From time to time, the ancient tribes were captured and carried off to foreign lands - perhaps a forerunner to events millennia later? They took with them their culture, their beliefs, their lifestyle. That they spread the gospel as they understood it is clear from other OT records. For example: Daniel was carried off to Babylon, rose to high rank, and is credited with teaching that lasted at least until the magi/astronomers came to see the baby Jesus. Another example: Naaman, army commander in the army in Aram, was a leper. His slave girl told him to seek help from the prophet of Israel. Thus we see that the wider outreach of God's love is being spoken about and demonstrated. Eventually the Promised Seed was born, lived, and died. Purpose for the "layette" achieved. But I do not think this is the only reason for no longer holding the "promised land." God wants his name known everywhere. He wants his people to be an example of how to live righteously according to his standards. Jesus sent his disciples throughout Israel to spread the gospel, to bring it first to the chosen people. He even sent his first tranche of disciples out without any weaponry, and strictly forbids that. But later, he knows that the gospel is to spread throughout the world, not restricted to a small group of people, but to show that God's love is for, and available to, all. A small middle eastern piece of land was no longer sufficient to hold the chosen people; God is (re)claiming the whole earth for himself for his chosen people. Disciples now are to be the "salt of the earth," salt representing commitment. Salt in a big heap isn't much good and turns the land sour. It's poisonous. Salt in small quantities, sprinkled in food, is good for preservation, flavour, enjoyment. Do we want to keep our baby cot? Maybe, as a relic and a reminder. Maybe even treasure it, as we might treasure our childhood teddy bear or blankie. But it's served its purpose. Do we want to return to, to stay, in our baby cot? Nah, life is much richer than that. Do I say that the land currently known as Israel should not exist? No, I am not saying that. There is much that could be said, but this is not the place for that. I am carefully refraining from political comment on the land currently known as Israel and the situation therein; I'm just looking at the historical roots and later background of the promise.

I encountered on Zoom a man whom I'd witnessed to decades before - passionately interested in God and became a staunch Wayfer. He now has somewhat different beliefs. He is convinced that the Earth was created and populated as stated in Genesis 1, and that the exact day that God took rest can be calculated back. It was a Saturday. That is why we should honour the Sabbath - on Saturday, and that day has been calculated and can be ascertained Biblically. It has also been carefully preserved by Jews. Keeping the "sabbath" on any day at all that is not Saturday will, apparently, result in damnation, because it is a defiling and disobedience to Ex 20:8ff. Exodus 20 - “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. | ESV.org Safe to say, I don't agree with this PoV and have (for other reasons) discontinued conversation with him. We just don't know what time lag, and what events, happened between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. Do we need to? Or do we simply need to disregard prophets and priests who claim to know?

I know of one man, highly intelligent, who thinks that the earth was made in 6 days, exactly as the Bible states. It's 4,000-something years old. Gen 1 :1 was it initially - then the Earth became void, then in 4000 years it was completely re-established. He was deadly serious in this belief. He urged me to go to a lecture by some visiting ?whatever? who knew about things like this. To expand my viewpoint (it wasn't long after TWI-escape), I did go along to the lecture. The person was so wacky that I think I walked out at half-time.

There are cave paintings that are radio-carbon dated to over 40,000 years ago. The fact that there are paintings at all - and of recognisable creatures and vegetation at that - points to much earlier human(like) creatures that had the skill to do the painting, knowledge of materials, etc etc. There are other cave paintings in other parts of the world that are also very, very old, in five figures. Any theory needs to take account of these - unless there's the allegation that these are all total fakes. Unlikely, methinks.

Lol, God SITS! Speaks in Tongues! He SITs!! What else could this mean?

Shoot, look at their income and expenditure!!! Huge increase in expenditure (way exceeding income) for 2021-22; a smaller, but not commensurate, increase in income for 2022-23. Outgoings way exceed income - ah! could they be - ah! in debt??? (No, more likely funds from TWI in the US - your abundant sharing at work.) But their income has more than doubled between 2019 and 2023. I worry for those who are being duped by this organisation. At least if you look under the "where" category, you can see where to be on your guard!

FYI Robert Wilkinson was an electrician by trade and had a really good business going in Altrincham. He also ran a major fellowship, if not to say The Way in GB or The Way of the UK or whatever it was then called. Geer came over to the UK, and Robert, along with many other Wayfers, welcomed him. That moneysink Gartmore was purchased and Geer prevailed on Robert to help ("volunteering") to make this rundown place electrically safe. Robert tried to do the maintenance etc at Gartmore as well as keep his business going. Eventually Geer's demands got too much and he ended up basically giving up his business and going on staff for The Way of GB/Way of [or in] the UK/whatever. The business of The Way started as one name, but when Geer took over and split from the US parent, the name was changed (ie from The Way in GB to The Way in the UK, or vice versa). It's too long ago, I can't remember the details now. Neither of these entities currently exist. However, TWI has not given up. Instead, there is another entity, The Way International (UK) Ltd. It appears to have been incorporated in 1994, but what was it doing in that time? It seems it was not active. Currently there are four trustees, all appointed fairly recently (2020's) and allegedly unpaid. There is one local Trustee. And three overseas Trustees, none of whom has declared trusteeships elsewhere. Can you guess who they might be? Yep, Vern Edwards, Marcia Lombardi, and Steve Crommett. And the website link is straight back to TWI HQ. There are also 25 "volunteers." Here you are, if you want to rummage around for yourself. Charity overview, THE WAY INTERNATIONAL (UK) LIMITED - 1040198, Register of Charities - The Charity Commission. There are governing documents (required for all charities) but these are not available for public view on the Charity Commission website. These include Safeguarding Vulnerable people (yeah, right). Gift aid, surprisingly, is not available. This would enable the entity to recover the tax paid on donations - but it may require them to deal in significant ways with Inland Revenue (the tax office).

Yes, especially in the USA. Thankfully, that doesn't happen in churches in the UK. Not any that I'm aware of, anyway. Likely if any church minister here said, Vote for Candidate X, or Vote for Party Y, they'd get roundly roasted by the PCC and many members of the congregation.

Having said that, hey, Christianity is very counter-cultural - and thus political. But don't line up with "party" ideas. Line up with what the Bible says, the best you understand it. Read and think thoroughly. Do NOT take your pseudo-minister's word for it. Above all, choose with compassion. You probably shouldn't even take any political party's word for what they say they're going to do. Read their manifesto; get the small print. But even then, any govt minister will weasel out from manifesto commitments by saying that circumstances have changed / there isn't the budget / this latest emergency takes precedence. Whatever.

TWI pushed some really bizarre political views, but he didn't really have any knowledge (IMO) of what the party/ies were about. They certainly didn't have any wider perspective. I can't comment on VPW personally, only from what I've heard of old teachings and what other people said he said - he was dead shortly before I got involved. I can speak to what LCM said, and some of that was very odd (but then, he was odd himself). Not being American, I let most of it wash over me. But I did resent his comments on the EU and the nations of Europe having a common border. He was over the top in his remarks, so I kinda whitewashed them. Ite was clear he had no idea of non-US politics, of collaboration, of wanting something bigger than themselves. Stupid man. The EU with all its countries is still not as big as the USA with all its states - did he think, then, that the States should all secede and become completely independent of each other and of pan-continental legislation? Each State to its own - in everything? And his lack of knowledge of European political history, and why the EU (formerly EEC) came about - if he'd had an iota of background he'd've thought rather differently. My thoughts? Get your hands off what you know nothing about! You stick to preaching the gospel. Leave politics, and particularly European politics, well alone!!!

Nobody thinks you're crazy - at least not any crazier than some of us here have been! It's great when we all get back to some sort of "normality." Very best wishes for your future. You will be missed here. Do feel free to look in and see us occasionally.

Heck. Does anybody care about this deluded fellow? Honestly, the best thing that he can do is to join a good church that really works with disadvantaged people, then "get his hands dirty" learning to serve others. Before he does that, however, he needs to acquire a large roll of duct tape, zip his lips, and just watch and learn. Nothing that comes out of his mouth will be helpful.

I thought some of you might enjoy this lovely choral music. My choir is singing this piece (and others) at our concert in late March (the main piece is Faure Requiem). I find it hard to get this out of my head. The accompanying video is lots of shots inside various English cathedrals, some of which, or some parts of which, date back around 1000 years. Those with an architectural eye will notice a wide variety of building styles.

Game shows haven't changed much! But dang, that's almost funny.

Charity, whatever that is can't be opened.

Of course! Why not? Everything else, every other idea, is plagiarised and enhanced with VPW's ego - PFAL; books; the radio show; AoS based on Saturday Night Fever. The trip to India where he was a keynote speaker. So of course he was a vital part of the Jesus Revolution. At least his ability to hang onto others' coat tails was. /sarc/

Went to see this last night. It shows Winton as an old man, but looking through a scrapbook with details of the children rescued, and flashbacks to the time in August/September in Prague; also his mother petitioning the Home Office in the UK to get visas for the children. Quiet "now" times and lots of tension in the "then" times. It's well put together and well worth going to see. Provocative, leaves you with the pondering of what each of us would do in the circumstances. If you watch right through to the end of the credits, the director poses a question and a request. Ponder that, too.