sprawled out

i'm not vicious or bitter, sam. but i have no patience for judgmental clowns in "christian" clothing. you don't even see it, with that beam in your eye--the smug, self-righteousness. the know-it-all attitude under the veneer of pseudo-humility. i'd feel bad for you, but to be honest, i'm fresh out of compassion for folks like you. (what did jesus call them? oh, yeah--hypocrites.) so if the object of "mov[ing] onward and upward" is to get to where you are, no thanks. nice post, rascal! well said!

it's interesting, and puzzling, to me that someone could find this a great post. it's nonsense to me. babbling. i guess it's all the code words and concepts i'm not privy to. as an outsider, it looks like you're demeaning one brand of "mumbo-jumbo" with what appears to me to be little more than mumbo-jumbo. that's not a criticism of either therebut or ductape. just an observation.

NOPE!

the last thing i gave up for lent was "giving up things for lent." :P

i'm really p!ssed you guys never told me about the beer in allen gym. or invited me up to the top floor of the library. i thought i was being reprobate, cutting 10:30 church on sunday mornings!

mmmmmm...baby soup! doesn't look like you need any help to me, dooj. YES! in part because i don't think these guys even KNOW what's in their hearts. they never stopped to look. they just tumbled from twi into ces and rode the snowball. so YES, i think they should just get out of the "minister" business for a while. if not forever. it's painfully clear that, even with all their experience, and the benefit of all that hindsight, they SUCK at it.

hey, EP--can you say "weasel?"

like EVERYTHING, gracie. i mean, GET AWAY FROM THE WHOLE THING. stop trying to "move the word," or whatever you call it. get a job--and by that i mean, a vocation other than "the ministry." put your mind, your heart, if you will, someplace else for a while. learn to think outside of the box of what you consider to be "the word." (horrors!) then, after a good long time, come back with a fresh perspective. i guess i don't really expect you to get it, as simple as it is. the problem is, these guys rolled from twi right into their own thing. and though they thought they were throwing out the bathwater, the truth is, they didn't really know what was bathwater and what was baby. to be honest, neither do you (in my opinion, of course). i know we'd disagree, but much of what's wrong with CES/STFI is painfully obvious to many of us on the outside looking in. and as bright or capable or well-intentioned as those folks (the CES BOD, etc.) are, they just don't get it. and they probably never will. surely they'd think the same of me, only worse. but there's a huge difference between us: if I'M wrong, i'm not destroying people's lives in the process. face it, gracie. they have become just another version of twi. only worse. more twisted. somebody should stop them, before they kill again.

i think the 11th should get together and see if we can straighten out JAL's new church. that's what they need now, some of that good old 11th corps "don't-f-with-me" attitude! :D

i think it's mighty hard to separate the baby and the bathwater. if you ask me, bathwater is everywhere in CES/STFI. it's in their organization, their doctrine, their hearts. and i agree with rascal--start over. BUT this time, take a break. a long, long break. take time to re-adjust mentally, to clear away the old mindsets--starting with the residual waybrain that became the "new" foundation. take a walk. go away. get a job. learn how to think for yourself. then, after a few YEARS, if you still feel the need to (and god willing, you won't), start afresh. AFRESH. re-examine everything. question everything. subject every assumption and conclusion to the harshest possible inspection. and maybe, just maybe, you'll learn from your mistakes this time. but i doubt it.

bite me. judge not, lest you be judged, right? in MY opinion, it's attitudes like yours that keep us from getting anywhere. if you can't stand the "over-the-top commentary," get out of the cafe.

"clutches?" your choice of words betrays your prejudice, Esty. perhaps you should advise the apostle paul. i guess he suffered all those lashings, imprisonment, etc. under some other yoke. EP, you seem like a nice guy (gal?), but for a deadhead, you're pretty caught up in all the rules and regs of christianity. feels pretty at odds with misfit power. hey, if the Dead were about anything (other than music), it was freedom. or perhaps more precisely, anarchy. why not let it shine, EP? let it shine.

couldn't they just "mark and avoid" me? or classify me "dropped from active churchgoing?"

mark g soiled his what?

i didn't know that jonny was "special." NOW i understand...

the brainwashing. and the sex! oh, and the brainwashing!

they are absolutely upfront about asking for money. my problem is, i have memory (though my long-term is better than my short!), and i remember them saying, in a very early incarnation: "We will never ask anyone for money." then, of course, they decided it was scriptural to ask. and they haven't stopped for a moment since!

mr. hamm: to paraphrase one of CES' own pieces of sh--, i mean, "research," Don't Blame Me! :P

just wanted to provide a place for those who are so inclined to have their humorous (or snide or sarcastic or otherwise non-serious) say on the ever-so-serious matter of the CESTFI lawsuit(s). sorry, if i can't be too straightfaced about this, folks. i realize there are people involved, and that many have sunk their hearts into this outfit. but from the outside, it's looks like a circus to me. and a circus is funny (except for the clowns). anyway: a lawyer, a minister and a prophetess walk into a bar...

one man's assumptions is another's observation. who am I? just someone who calls 'em as he sees 'em. honestly, i wasn't so much referring to you. but since you've responded... i have direct and personal experience with what's been written here. that's what i was commenting on. as for my experience with CES, i was around at the beginning. and saw enough to know, even then, which way the wind was blowing. good for you! but unlike you, all i'm hoping for is for it to go away. finally is right! keep 'em flyin'! :D

you guys can cut them slack because of potential legal ramifications all you want. but i think they should be held to a higher standard. i also think your religious allegiance has affected your ability to think objectively. what's worse, you think you're thinking "spiritually" and are therefore right. and that, my friends, is why you can't really see the problem. ("we have met the enemy, and he is us!")

you're mistaken, IMHO.

so where's that letter? can somebody post it?

not everyone, lumpy. i never wanted to be your friend.

wowie zowie! digital! CDs instead of cassettes! man, they're on the cutting edge. guess their tight relationship with God is keeping them ahead of the curve! what'll they introduce next? the iron horse? the wheel?