sprawled out

that B&B is owned and operated by a woman named Devonna Faith, which is kinda funny in light of the place's former life as a "seminary." funny, too, because it sounds like a fake name--just like vp's fake "Dr!"

anyone know the whereabouts of Gina, a dark-haired italian girl from las vegas? she was pretty young, maybe 19. i was wow with her in dallas.

some of these things--like the house of his healing presence--are unbelievable to me. i mean, it WAS hokey, but at least it had heart. like "daddy's cookie jar." guess craigsy was too macho for that stuff. of course, i mean macho in the most homophobic sense.

wish i knew more about what exactly bg leonard taught (not enough to pay for it!), but it looks to me like he had plenty of his own goofiness. on his ministry's ugly mess of a website, i found this statement: "The King James Version of the Bible is the only Authorized and God-appointed translation of the Bible." hello? earth to bg...this is rationality calling. oh, and i like this one, too, from the foreward of his "gifts of the spirit" book: "One day God spoke to me. "If thou wilt wait patiently before me, I will give thee the revelation concerning that which is written in my Word touching these things; the revelation my people need to bring them out of their chaos and confusion." god speaks in king james english? i'm sorry, but bg either was full of it, or a few bricks shy of a full load--why in hell would god speak to a 20th-century man in 17th-century english?

beer!

still digging around in the archives...can anyone tell me what vpw doctrines were declared to be "old wineskins" by crazy uncle craig? and what they were replaced with?

there's a lot to that, i think. certainly, a lot of twi's appeal to younger people is due to what they co-opted from these movements. i can't imagine many of us would've been able to stomach the earlier incarnation--when they were still all vesper chimes churchy, prayed in king james english (with "thee"s and "thou"s), etc.

yeah, i remember that corps promo. another example of the third-rate schlock they always turned out. cheesy, low-rent, lowbrow--looking back, it could've been the intro to some super 8 porn flick. all it needed was some cheap panelling on the walls. (wait--didn't the brc have cheap panelling on the walls??) in any other realm, i'd have been so appalled by the complete lack of production value, it would've turned me off to the whole thing. but instead it endeared me to it, just like vp's cornpone amateurism did in pfal. who was brainwashed? not ME!

reading this stuff makes me nuts. i didn't get in until '76, but one of my closest friends was around in the early days in NY. i remember him talking about all these folks, but we never talked about the whys and wherefores. i guess i was too caught up with it all to care. but in hindsight, i sure wish i'd asked!

thanks, all!

maybe it's because i've been reading about the old days at the way, but that reminds me of when people would ask questions, they'd be told "take the class." i always hated that.

Anyone know why steve heefner and jim doop were booted (or left, or whatever really happened)? and while we're at it, what SPECIFICALLY resulted in the departure of david anderson and peter wade?

anyone know what craigie based his version on? (other than his numbskull?) did he have scriptural rationale? (not that he ever needed it, the wanker!)

jeez. if RELIGION is "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe," and ATHEISM is "Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods," then atheism is NOT a religion. so you can either accept these simple definitions, and the inescapable conclusion, or play with the words. hmmm, now what would a GSpotter do? ;)

it's definitely something to think about. a long while ago, i remember thinking that maybe the reason everyone seems to arrive at a different interpretation of the bible (and why there are all those denominations) is that we're SUPPOSED to. maybe, in direct contradiction to what we were taught in the way, it's all about "private interpretation." everyone sees what they NEED to see. it's radical. conservative christianity would lose its mind over this, just like they condemn "moral relativism." and it'll never fly with any church, for sure, because every church is built on the idea that they have it right (and everyone else is wrong). i know they may not say that outright, but why would this church be separate from that church unless they thought they had a reason to be separate? the idea that there ISN'T one right way to understand the bible would shake the very foundations of "organized" christianity--more than JC is not god, or are the dead alive, or any of that stuff! what a lovely thought.

i understand where you're coming from, bliss, but for ME, the ministry is anything BUT cool. vp used to say "religion is the cruelest thing i know," and that's exactly how i feel about twi. if i thought i knew the magic words that would wake them up, i would shout them from the proverbial rooftops. i hate the idea of "letting them have their own little world," when that world is so destructive, so stunting, such a deceitful prison of the heart, mind and soul.

if you think about it objectively, it seems perfectly reasonable to alert parents that "there are things in this movie you may not want your kid exposed to." kids are impressionable. i wouldn't want my kids inundated with a hard-sell evangelical message--at least until they were old enough to process it.

funny--to me, the "family table" is EXACTLY the place for "political, philosophical or religious debates!"

goey--when i click on that link i get "not available for download." any help? and dan--what about dr. smith? that he was a self-absorbed, two-faced liar? or something else?

foghorn leghorn! that kinda takes the sting out of his rants! i say, it kinda takes the sting out! (and it doesn't take much to see the elmer fudd in vp, either! "it's chwist in you, the hope of gwory! hehehehe.") :P

ba-dum-bum! (don't you love it when a thread comes full circle?)

among the many things i'd like to ask my father, this is at the top of the list: every so often, as i was growing up, my father would ask me, "Do you know what's what?" i'd say no, and he'd say "i'll tell you when you get older." but he died without ever telling me. so i'd like to know what's what. but who wouldn't?

yes, yes, he had to be savvy. and WE were the foolish ones. BUT...IT..WAS...A....JOKE!! if i could've come up with a better play on "apostle," i would have. but "imbecile" sounded right, and it was derogatory. so i went for it. maybe i should've stuck with another word that, like apostle, also has an "a" and an "s" (two of 'em!) and an "o," "l" and "e." but i thought that'd be too much of a stretch. hey! so maybe i'm the imbecile! (very topical reply, jim. nicely done!)

it was just a play on words: apostle/imbecile. (they don't look alike, but they sound alike!) sorry--just making light of the apostle discussion. (haha! apostle! light! get it?)

no, no, not scarlett! i was referring to the picture she posted of an "apostle." go scrollin', you'll find it. but i warn you, it's a little scary.