Suda

What a hoot this is turning into! Suda (who needed a laugh after so many heavy thoughts recently)

Thanks for the feedback, Tonto, Act2, and wrds&works. Act2, will meet you at Salsa anytime you are in town! Sudo and I both love it. Suda

Tom Strange’s post # 573 hit a paradigm for me that I needed to work through. Instead of just having a head knowledge that many here feel this way, I’m finally beginning to see it with my heart, and, man, does that help. I know it’s been written out there, and I’ve read it, but finally I am seeing it. In untangling the incongruence between the Public and Private personas of VPW, I had to let go of the “Father in the Word” image of him because the heinous acts he perpetrated against some in his flock. I did that not soon after arriving at GSC. Yet I can still accord him due respect for the positive impact he had on my life. Yes, I realize it was God who is responsible, and I give him the glory. I give due respect only to those areas in VPW’s life where he did manifest the Christ in Him, and the gems of truth he taught in PFAL and via other teachings and publications, that were inspired of GOD. In these instances of his representation of the truth as inspired by God and teaching it, he presented the liberating information of the Bible to me and thousands of others. This, and only this, I give him due respect for. According him due respect in these areas only is, to me, giving God the glory, by recognizing God’s hand in these areas. Despite the evil nature of other areas in vpw’s life, God was able to use his teaching skills to reach me, and it is for the truth of the Word he taught that I am thankful for, not him personally. And I do believe that God was working in him “to will and to do of His good pleasure”. I do not deny that he may have stolen it from B. G. Leonard and others (I say may, because I have not researched it on my own, but will shortly. My gut certainly tells me it is true, and I do not doubt those that have told me here and elsewhere. But kinda like White Dove and Deciderator, it won’t fully meld in my mind and reach my heart until I taste the pudding for myself. That is why, to me, the honest word to use here is may. Very soon I will probably change that to “he did steal”, but until then, it’s may.) And at the same time I accord VPW due respect, I have uttermost contempt for him for peddling his private agendas to me disguised behind contorted use of scripture that were also presented in PFAL (and other teachings and publications as well). And I believe it was God working within ME “to will and to do of His good pleasure” that I never latched on to a lot of those perverted teachings. I did not escape all, but, thank God, I escaped most. Just as God directed VPW’s steps in some areas of his life, the devil guided his steps in many others. The devil is the true author of the lies vpw taught us, and the master planner of how it blended in so subliminally with the truth. Do I hold the devil responsible, and give vpw a pass because he was tricked?. Hell no! I don’t think vpw was tricked in many of the evils he propounded, rather that vpw understood the wrong decisions he made. But he chose to magnify his own ego over God, and adopted the devilish doctrines and spread them as fervently as he spread the good news of the gospel. I believe it was an error of heart of vpw’s part, not an error or judgement. I can give people a pass on faulty judgement. But not on errors of heart, as I believe they made them consciously and willfully with full understanding he was choosing evil over good. In the Bible we read of accounts where “good” people (can’t say Christian because was in the gospels) were possessed of devil spirits and that they were delivered from them. Until now, my mind saw those people as “totally marred or oozing from possession”, i.e., if I ran into them on the street, for safety sake I would feel compelled to cross the street and get away from them immediately. But in truth, many of those who were “possessed” were only partially stricken. They had mostly sane moments, many people would probably be unaware a problem existed if they just saw them walking down the street or had casual dealings with them. If they got to know them, they may say, “Overall he is a pretty good Joe, but if you hit on a sore subject with him, watch out, he goes totally berserk!” And those “sore subjects” would be the “devil spirit possession”. Just as all people have faults to some degree or another, and most faults are just that, faults. However, some people who have a lot (or less) good in them can have faults to the extreme of devil possession. And that person can manifest both the goodness of God in their lives if they are born again, as well as the evil of the devil if they are possessed. Same person. And that person can seek deliverance from God of the spirit possession, or they can so assimilate the evil into their lives and hearts that they want no deliverance in those areas of their lives. That may come about because - and this is totally conjecture on my part - if someone had been overly lustful since puberty, and saw that as virility or some such thing, they may see that as a good thing, not a bad thing, and thus not want to change. And as they continue in that manner, it grows increasingly worse - from hanging out with “women who will” to trying to persuade and manipulate “women who won’t”, to forcing women “to do”. At some point, this human lust becomes spiritual lust because “the door was wide open and the devil made himself at home”. So then they become totally selfish about that lust and find reasons to justify and rationalize their behavior and figure “If I can accomplish it by any means possible, doesn’t bother me, too bad for them. If I want it, I can take it, and dam* the consequences to that person if they can’t handle it.” And if they have this possesion and/or attitude in one area of their lives, it will creep over into other their other character weaknesses to some degree or another. They may become possessed in other areas, also, and feel no need for deliverance because their mind is seared in those parts. But other parts of their minds are not seared, and God can work with those parts. So it is quite possible that VPW was born of God’s spirit and at the same time was possessed of devil spirits. Thus, we have the description of some of his victims of “cold, dead eyes” while under the possession of the devil and the “dynamic, alive eyes” when he was teaching the Bible while manifesting the love of God. Son of the Master’s post # 562 The violation of free will is giving up your choice to choose to do what you know is the right thing to do, dismissing it completely due to your own ego, and letting spiritual lust control your action. And because publically, VPW manifested Godliness, (which we were encouraged to elevate to the point we put him on the pedestal as MOGFOD&T or "Father in the Word" or "modern day Moses", etc.) the idea of simultaneous possession never entered my mind until today. If I detected weaknesses, they were chalked up to being character flaws like everyone has to some degree or another. But when you see the unconscionable acts he perpetrated, there is no room for God in those acts. They were totally evil and therefore could only emanate from the god of this world, the devil. And that was the how the devil was able to infiltrate the twi “organization” because people could not or did not separate the Godly parts of VPW from the devilish parts, but viewed him as a whole, sound, Godly person. Nor were we able to clearly distinguish the devilish doctrines. We could distinguish them from the Godly ones however, because the devilish ones caused us confusion, trouble in understanding, hit our gut or hearts wrong, etc. It was difficult for those of us not already grounded in the Bible to distinguish between the proper use of scripture and the twisted scripture to support the devilishness. Moreover, vpw was very effective at hiding his private persona, and only displaying it to those he chose. And he also chose the degree to which he showed his real colors. Most only got quick glimpses, which they chalked up to “usual human flaws”. And, for some, when they got over the shock, and dismissed the quick glimpses, he’d show more and more, twisting scripture to justify or rationalize it. Some had the wisdom to see through his smoke screen and confront him on it. And when they did, he berated them and tried to manipulate them into accepting his reality. When they would not, he would destroy their reputations and credibility to the point they were ostracized. And that robbed the rest of us of the “wise counselors” to whom we could take our questions and concerns. According him due respect to me is giving God the glory, that despite the nature of the man, God was able to use his teaching skills to reach me, for it is the truth of the Word he taught that I am thankful for, not him personally. And I do believe that God was working in him “to will and to do of His good pleasure” much of the time when he was in his public persona. But the devil was right there too, giving him the ability to wear his sheep’s clothes to cover the wolverine facets of his being. And where was God in all this? He was always right there, in the Christ in each of us. He was the one talking, and sometimes yelling, to our conscience, saying “Warning!” “Stay Away” “This isn't right - go with your gut, your heart, don’t be tricked” “when in doubt, DON’T” “NO, NO, NO!” And just as furiously as He was fighting for us, the devil was fighting against us. He had permeated the twi organization, oozed into every nook and cranny, and was waiting for each and every opportunity to pounce on us, little and medium and great. He destroyed (via vpw and his henchmen) our wise counselors, he kept propounding his false doctrine and drilling it into our head, he manipulated us into “follow leadership at all costs - even if you make the wrong decision, God will honor it because you are following your leadership”. He STOLE our freedom of will when we were unable to battle through the darkness and confusion. God was doing his best, but his people were “dazed and confused” and overpowered by the devil’s men “who knew all the answers” and scolded and berated you if you were unable to see it. God was always there, fighting for us, trying to reach us, but we allowed ourselves to be tricked, thus allowing ourselves in those battles to be beaten by the principalities and powers of of darkness. Yes, we lost those battles, but WE DID NOT LOSE THE WAR. It still rages, minute by minute, but as we follow God, and intreat Jesus Christ as our personal savior, we win the battles. And Jesus Christ has already won the war for us. Lean unto Them, and we will win the daily battles, also. So does that mean we that were tricked are to blame? Perhaps partially. We made errors in judgement, which usually could account for no more than 20%. But the 80% or greater responsibility, the principal and dominating responsibility, was due to the devil, and those who made errors of heart and adopted the devilish doctrines as their truth, and mercilessly hammered us with them until we accepted them or left the organization. So our responsibility is contributory, their’s is the prime and principal reason and cause. So if we are not to blame ourselves, what are we to do? We are to realize and understand that we battled against the powers of darkness and lost because we failed to heed the warnings of God, and therefore walked outside His protection. Accept the wrong decision, and FORGIVE ourselves first. Then feel the anger and rage and let it all out. Go to God and our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ for comfort, guidance, and direction so that we can begin the healing process. We come to understand the where, when, how, who of being tricked, and learn how to avoid that in the future. We forgive others to the best of our ability when we are capable. It may require a little here and a little there, until it can be accomplished. We let go of the confusion and bitterness and hurt. And in that healing process, we go as quickly as we can, and as slowly as we must. We don’t skip steps and bury things. We deal with it all, no matter how long it takes, then claim in victory in Christ Jesus and then move on. T-Bone has a great post #517. Find your shoes in there, step in them, wear them until you understand where and how the blisters are coming from, then make the neccessary corrections. Then throw those damned shoes away and put on a pair that fits. Now that is just my take on it at this time. Others came to different conclusions which are as valid for them as mine are to me. Not saying I’m right and they’re wrong, or vice versa. Just that we differ. For some the progression may have followed more closely to this line of reasoning. If I accept that VPW committed unconscionable acts, they are evil and devilish and therefore he could not be born again of God’s spirit. And if he was not born again of God’s spirit, then teaching the Bible was just a vocation to him, like selling Fuller brushes is to others. And why would he choose that as the product to sell? So that he could set up an organization that would (1) provide a high standard of living, (2) provide the adulation and ego stroking he wanted, (3) as owner he would be “boss” and would allow no “bucking the boss” and thus have total control, power, and authority, and (4) provide a steady stream of nubile young creatures to use for his pleasure. Thus, he went out and shopped around for a product to steal. He found it in B. G. Leonard’s class, and along the way picked up other people’s ideas. He then incorporated all of it into his product and called it PFAL. That product was his bait. And he was mighty good at fishing with it, and over time finally succeeded in getting a full net of “fishes” for himself. Once he got them hooked on his public persona, he could little by little expose the private persona, and since he was the boss, they either accepted it or he “fired” them. And the “groupie” fish who had similar desires for power, he could mold into his henchmen to protect his private persona from those he did not wish to expose it to. And he would get them in on all the evil acts, so that if they ever “saw the truth”, they would have to sacrifice themselves in order to expose him, and most would be unwilling to do that. Many of the fishies would never see his “true” self, because he needed them ignorant in order to tempt others with his bait. And the more people who sold his bait, the more fishies he had to keep ignorant and supply him with the dough to support his lifestyle. They are happy in their ignorant bliss, he is happy as their boss. And life goes on. And the farce goes on. And everybody is happy. And if they accept this scenario, that they were ignorant fish attracting more and more fish into their school to support his lifestyle in the farce, then they have to accept that they were duped. And thus he was evil from the beginning, and just got worse as his “school of fish” grew which afforded him more power and authority over more people. The bottom line of this scenario is summarized in WordWolf’s post #606 (whether or not it is his opinion, I do not know, as he does not state his opinion, but is asking Oldiesman a question). And I can understand that line of reasoning. But to the question above posed by WordWolf, I would have to answer no, because I see a huge flaw in it I can’t accept. And that is that I know personally, in my heart of hearts, that it was GOD that reached me through VPW. And the great majority of people I was surrounded by in twi had also been touched by GOD through their affiliation. So to me, I believe he was born again, and that God did work through him, but that he also was greatly influenced by the devil. I believe he started out hungering and thirsting for the knowledge of God and found it and ministered it to people. But along the way, the gave over his free-will control of areas of his life to the devil, and let him control them. And disaster resulted for him personally, destroyed his organization, and hurt many in varying degrees in the process. ExWayCorps, in post #918 alludes to this EyesOpen makes a good point related to this in post #622 In totality, this is true. But many (only or primarily) saw the areas in his life where he did walk the talk - his public persona - which was just as real as his private persona. And this issued in good for people in their lives. But in those areas where he did not walk the talk, that’s where the destruction of lives took place and people experienced treatment inspired and executed by the devil himself. And the “old timers” that remain in the shell of his former organization are there because, as stated by Tom Strange As Dot Matrix stated in post #484, they have failed to make an important distinction. and in #748 As we see clearly now, our loyalty is to God and his Son, Christ Jesus, only. We get tricked when we let anyone else, anything else, or any organization take Their place in our hearts, minds, and lives. The good we gained from our affiliation with twi was good because it was of God, and the evil we suffered was deplorable and unconscionable because it was of the devil. And VPW emanated both. Both God and the devil were alive and thriving in vpw and twi. And just as the good deeds we do for God resound from generation to generation, so does the evil one does for the devil. Both impacts are mighty and life altering. And on Judgment Day we will receive our just reward for the good we have done as well as be held accountable for the evil we have done. Today we reap the benefits of God’s mercy and his grace. I doubt that will be the case on Judgment Day. At the Bema each person will receive rewards for the good we have done. But we will also have to face any evils we perpetrated, and will be held responsible and accountable for those. And for those who consciously committed evil, that will scorch and sear them for eternity, imo. Their rewards will not be withheld nor negated, but it will severely handicap their spiritual utilization of them throughout eternity. So at the “final Rock of Ages” in the air for eternity, I visualize vpw and his henchmen being on eternal “honeywagon” duty, dwelling in the cesspool by day, and sleeping in the rain drenched tent city by night. The rest of us will be in the Big Top, in the audience, enjoying God on the platform, even helping and assisting Him up there. And we will retire at night, protected from the rain, thunder, and lightening, and rest peacefully in the RV camp. Rascal, you have given me a great topic for a personal word study - inheritance - in Galatians 5. "I am simply going by Galations chapter 5 that states that those who have done what vpw are of the flesh and shall have NO inheritance in the kingdom of God." (The parameters here will not allow any further quotes to stand out in quote marks. Therefore, I am putting them in quotes and centering them. Sorry!) In post #712, Larry N Moore states, "I think Gamaliel said it best when he said: ". . . for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God." I heard VPW speak words similar to this on several occasions. And we see how true it is in retrospect. The part of his ministry that was founded on men, based on devilish doctrines, justified and rationalized by twisted the scripture, that is, the organization of twi, has come to nought. But that which was of God, which led to the new birth or ignition of revival in the heart and lives of each of God’s precious children, you and me, still lives and abides in us, and will continue as long we choose to follow God. For it is “Christ IN You, the Hope of Glory!” Suda (with humility and thankfulness for all who contributed to this thread and helped me make this paradigm shift) P. S. I realize this post will anger and hurt some posters and many lurkers. Please know that I would not have posted it if I did not feel compelled to do so.

Dooj, I'm shocked, I'm shocked! Ole Rosie Palmer, a man's best friend. Suda

Gee, I'm glad someone finally explained it to me. Now I know why I'm so bi+chy, want Sudo "where the sun do shine", and am always thinking of the heavenlies. At least I know where I blew it. I don't want him to just pulsate, I want him to gyrate. Yoo hoo! What a lunatic! Suda

Thanks for your patience. I would not have been offended if someone else had guessed it and "won". The fun, to me, is in playing. Here goes. 3 pictures. Enjoy!

Heading there now. Suda

Jeff Bridges Seabiscuit Chris Cooper Suda (sorry for the lapse in time - been busy!)

Serenity? Too many movies I've never heard of, lol. Never heard of a Serendipity, either, for that matter. Guess that's why I'm so hit and miss in this forum, narrow frame of reference. Suda

Hey ((((((Ron)))))). Have missed you, dear friend. So glad to see you and like your new avatar. But the old one was “more you”, imo. Loved your first and last reasons. Perfect! Hope to see you more frequently. Maybe in chat? Suda

No problem, anotherDan, I've been a bit pre-occupied over in the "About the Way" forum, and may be for a while longer. So, all, please proceed with his tune in place of one from me, and I will rejoin the festivities when time allows. Suda

It is also possible that when ChattyKathy was making this post, the "A Few things I learned in PFAL . . . do you still believe them?" thread was out in limbo land. It was "deleted" for about an hour yesterday but *POOF* is back again. I'm very glad it is, as at least a few of us have posted to the healing we received there, so I assume there are others in our same shoes that have chosen not to post. Suda

ChattyKathy, Your post was wonderful. I think it encapsulates the benefit to exposing the underbelly of twi while still being able to celebrate how God reached us during our affiliation with it. How grand that those threads finally allowed your healing in this are! I am so blessed for you. I think the 1st thread you may be referring to was "A Few Things I Learned in PFAL . . . do you still believe them?". I, too, was gaining great healing in that thread and going through some immense paradigm shifts I have been working towards for years. Then all of a sudden *POOF* the thread is gone. Hearing that someone else was receiving great healing let's me know I was not "all alone" in receiving great benefits from the thread, and leads to me expect that others may have been experiencing the same. It is my hope and prayer that it will be reinstated so that the healing can continue for all that were receiving it there. Suda

Understand perfectly. Having one of those times myself right now. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Suda

Great quotes by Larry N. Moore and Doojable, respectively. From the beginning of my association with twi I took statements such as those (heard many similar things from other believers before taking the class) to heart. That as a Research ministry, twi was dynamic, not static. I always felt encouraged to bring up questions when my study or gut feel, even, contradicted what twi was teaching. The great majority of the time, the questions were encouraged and there was no “VP says it, that settles it” attitude, but rather, “if that what your heart tells you to believe, then stick with it.” When I did run into VP=Truth, I would remind them that it contradicted what he, himself, had said. Too bad twi didn't stick to this. It was the core reason for the downfall, imo. Just thought those quotes were worth repeating. Suda

Deciderator, in response to your post #1090, again, I thought I had answered your question. But let me clairfy. You ask, if I had questions concerning the Hope of the Return of Jesus Christ, how would I find my answers. Per my statement above, my first source of reference would be the Bible. Before beginning my study quest, I would pray and ask God for guidance in helping me to understand clearly what is written therein. I would also employ research aids, such as Tyndale's The Word Study Concordance and Bullinger's Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, my two favorites to start any study with. I also find it helpful to read what other people's research has unfolded to them and see the "backup" upon which they base their conclusions. And I will discuss it with other people, may even start a thread here in Doctrinal to get input. In evaluating the input of others, my "gold standard" is "does what they say line up with my understanding of what the Bible says? But after all is said is done, I would , or in this case for myself.So, again, if the Word = the Bible, and nothing but the Bible, then my answer to your question would have to be no. It is the starting and the finishing point, but not the only point of reference. Suda

Well, don't that beat all?! Happy Birthday! Hope it's you "beatenest" birthday ever. Enjoy! Suda

Chas, So thrilled your search for your "perfect dog" is completed. He looks like he meets your desires to a "t". Hooray for the Chas family! Enjoy! Suda

Sorry, Deciderator, I thought I had answered your question. I am a Christian. I use the Bible as my source of reference for how to live a Godly life. Another cliche I like is "What Would Jesus Do?". Often when faced with a situation and uncertain as how to proceed, I ask myself this question. And I base my "best guess" of WWJD on what I learn from the Bible. Sometimes I do a new study of something; sometimes I rely on what I have already learned. But I always supplement this with prayer. I ask God for guidance and direction. And I often get an anwer back via His still, quiet voice. Sometimes I seek the counsel of someone in deciding what action to take. Most of my trusted friends are Christian. Many of the professionals I seek counsel from are Christian. Sometimes I search out other publications on the question. And one of my favorite authors is of the Jewish faith, so her advice would only come from the Old Testament, not the New Testament. From my recollection, when VPW was referring to The Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word, he was holding up his Bible which indicates to me he was saying the Word = the Bible. So do I If it has to be a definitive yes or no answer, then to be honest, I'd have to say no. But I would qualify (sorry, I just have to, not trying to side step your question) that by saying my first "source of advice" is always either prayer or the Bible. Sometimes I feel the need to supplement prayer and the Bible with input from other trusted sources, either through direct communication, or sometimes by reading a publication by an expert I respect but do not know personally. I really tried to answer your question. Did I succeed, or did I miss your point again? Suda

Deciderator, Just read your recent posts here. Feeling a bit testy tonight, are you? Hope it gets better for you. Here at the GSC you'll find peoples beliefs run the whole gamut. The Christian and Jewish faiths are present, as are Wiccans, atheists, and agnostics, and others, I'm sure. From the posts I've read, those who still consider themselves Christians regard the Bible as the rulebook of that faith. But they are very careful, as you are, to come to conclusions for themselves, and not accept someone else's interpretation or viewpoint without careful consideration. I know you've been pounded by the reactions of people to your favorite one-liner from the PFAL class. It's been a rude greetings to GSC in many ways, and I'm sorry for that, wish it had unfolded in another way. But I see a lot of truth in what skyrider posted. The leaders who transfered their alligiance from God to the the twi organization, did substitute the class, The Way Magazine, and other Way publications for the source of study and used it as their first and primary reference for study of the Bible. I met a few of them. Thankfully, most that I was in contact with did not confuse the authority of Way documents, but remained focused on the Bible and God for their spiritual compass. That sounds like the leadership you had during your twi days. But acknowledge the reality that some had PFAL shoved down their throats, and when something in their study contradicted Way publications they were scorned if they would not dismiss their beliefs as unsound. It happened, and too often. It's a pity. And that's why the institution failed. It became incapable of helping people grow spiritually and learn how to utilize their gifts effectively in His service. Suda

Page 6 - What’s Happening in this thread? (NOTE: Page 5 has not been posted yet, as I felt this one is what was needed tonight ) (Page 1 is post #874 on page 44 of this thread, Page 2 post #891 on page 45, Page 3 post #893 on page 45, Page 4 post #941, Page 48, Page 5 not yet posted) The Need for Empathy in Reading Posts Page 11 starts with Jonny’s response to Excatedra about m’s story. His response really gave me pause to think. In trying to understand where he might be coming from, I made up my own "Jonny Lingo story". Jonny, for purposes of illustration, please indulge me and let me fabricate a story loosely based on some things I think I recall reading in some of your posts. If I mix up some of the facts, please overlook them, as this story is just for illustration, and not intended to be true or factual in any way. If I am remembering correctly, you and your wife are the proud parents of a beautiful daughter who is now serving in the Merchant Marines. She has recently been commissioned and is based on the same ship that you served on when you started with the Merchant Marines (MM for short). For character development, I have to summarize my impressions of you from” the man you post to be”, as I have never had to pleasure of knowing you outside of the cyber world. You appear to be a real man’s man. A perfect weekend for you would be heading out into the wild with some buddies, tracking bears and killing them for dinner, or fishing for a prized salmon. The fight in landing that fish is more delightful to you than eating that big boy, and eating it is sheer pleasure. In your youth you loved fast cars and faster wimmin. You’re not cocky, but you have solid self-esteem. You’re self confident, and won’t be pushed around. You stick to your guns, and allow no one to grab you by your cajones which, to you, are as big and mighty as Alaskan King Crabs. You have a soft side which few rarely see completely exposed, but it shows through in your manner with people, especially the ladies. But you “ain’t no sissy”, your keep that soft side under control and use it to your advantage, but never let it rule or overpower you. Naw, you got that baby under control. Now for my “hypothetical facts”, they are complete fabrications fashioned to serve the purposes of my story. Let’s say the name of the ship you served on, and is now “home” to your daughter is the “USS Alaska”, the premiere ship in the fleet, the one every Merchant Marine wants to serve on. It’s where the “action is” because the Captain of that ship has the Commodore’s ear, as all the special projects the MM’s are working on are based here. Serving on this ship provides the best opportunity to learn, to network, to meet the “makers and shakers”, and lay a solid foundation for advancing your career in the MM. While a cadet at the MM Academy, your daughter was taken under the wing of a Lt. Commander working on the “latest and greatest” project of the MM’s. They just clicked together as a team, had developed a great working rapport, he became her mentor. She has great respect for him and trusts him and his judgment. Upon her graduation, he had hand picked her to join his “sea duty” team and come aboard the USS Alaska as his right hand” man” in working out the kinks in this new project and implementing it. And a real plumb is that they would daily access to the Captain as this is his pet project and he wants to be as involved as possible. If all goes well, this is his final stepping stone towards the promotion to Commodore he’s been aspiring too all his life. And retirement age was coming soon, and he wants to go out in style. You remember the bittersweet day you and your wife saw her off on her first 6 month tour of sea duty. Man, she was so beautiful and striking in that uniform. You can see her now: head held high, grinning from ear to ear brimming with excitement and anticipation, the confidence of “look out world - here I come” beaming from her eyes, stepping surely on her feet, grounded with self confidence and self esteem, as she walked up that gangplank. Once on board she turned and waved, the two of you exchanged that “secret” wink and thumbs up sign you had shared since her early childhood, then she turned around sharply with perfect military precision, and disappeared into the body of the ship, heading to her new work station in the Lt. Commander’s office to help steer the future course of the MM’s. You were so proud, and filled with anticipation for her. Your heart felt like it was bursting with joy. It seemed like the ensuing 6 months would be the longest in your life, and you looked forward to your reunion. The two of you had always enjoyed talking about your days in the MM’s, how serving on that great ship had helped shape you into a real man. It was the best training ground you could have ever experienced. She regaled in your stories, in fact, it had started the yearning in her heart to grow up to be a MM, just like her dad! You knew she’d come back a woman, no longer your little girl, but an adult now, out on her own and grabbing all the gusto of life. All of her strengths would be more solidified, and she would have worked on overcoming her weaknesses or learning how to compensate for them such that they would not hold her back from becoming all she desired to become. What a day that would be when she returned, sharing all of her excitement with you! You could both share “war stories” of the good times and the hard times you experienced aboard that grand ship and compare notes. How were things different now and what remained the same and was just as she had imagined. You couldn’t sleep the night before she got home you were so excited. She’d have a two week leave, and lots of that time would be at home with the family. You and your wife were there an hour early, just to make sure you’d be the first faces she saw as she disembarked the ship. You couldn’t wait to see that confident, beautiful “new woman” walk down that gangplank, and share the secret wink and thumbs up. The MM’s were starting to file out now, and you’re both searching the crowds for her, but can’t find her. Well, there’s someone that looks a lot like her, but can’t be her. She’s kinda slumped over, almost running with her head slightly bowed, like she escaping. But lo and behold, that is her! My gosh, she must be sick. She looks a bit disheveled, not the “sharp as a tack” look she always bore. Her eyes have an almost vacant look about them. She sees you, raises her hand with a slight wave, and gives you a quick smile. She races into your arms and gives you a hug like she’ll never let go. You ask her how she’s feeling, is everything all right? She assures you she is, just been really busy tying up the loose ends before the tour was over, hasn’t had a lot of sleep, and not much appetite. But she’s home now, and all will be well. She’ll get the TLC she needs and be able to regroup. Let’s go home now, I can’t wait to be in that sanctuary again. I’ve missed it so, and long for a shower in my bathroom to scrub the sea out of me, a nice long nap in my own comfortable bed, in my own room, where I feel safe and secure. You and your wife are concerned about her. When she wakes up you ask about the project. Went well, very few hitches. Yeah, looked like the Captain was gonna make Commodore. All the “final” paperwork on the implementation results had to be put in order. In fact, would be her assignment for the next 6 months while on shore duty. He was staying ashore, too, to make sure everything stayed on course and the final product was flawless. Don’t know how he’s ever made it so far. Comes from a well established MM family, so grew up in it. His dad had been grooming him for this while he was still active, made sure he had all the right contacts, was able to secure all the plumb assignments. He reminded her a bit of the “Frank Burns” character on M.A.S.H. She’d admit, he was a bright guy, but he must have gotten all the right breaks to get where he was. And a real weasel. A master at manipulating people, getting them to do all the work, and taking all the glory. And, man what a temper. He knew how to bark orders and get exactly what he wanted. Never took “no” for an answer. Yeah, her mentor, the Lt. Commander was okay, too. In fact, the Captain had put him up for promotion to Commander because of the success of the project. But let’s don’t talk about ship life. I’m so glad to be home and just want to bask in the warmth, comfort and love here. Feel like I’m wrapped in my favorite blanket, safe and secure. I just want to enjoy the respite. Let’s not spoil it by sharing “war stories”. I just want to forget it for a while. My time on board was so intense, I just need a break from it. After a few days, she’s well rested and fed, and starting to perk back up and resembling her old self. You and your wife share a sigh of relief. Must have been a really hard tour. She’s such a go getter, must have worked herself half to death and not taken care of herself. But that’s our girl! Heck, she’ll probably make Commodore herself one of these days! Bet she’ll even start going out with her friends some now. Has hardly even taken any phone calls since she’s been at home. Well, she’s all rested now. Looks so much better, I’m so glad. A few nights before her leave comes to an end, you are awakened in the night by horrifying screams emanating from your daughter’s room. You rush in, find her in a fitful stage of sleep, fighting some adversary, repeating “No! No! No!” over and over again, “Stop it you sick bas+ard!” and then the screaming started anew. You sit down beside her and start to shake her awake, while telling her, “It’s only a bad dream. Tell me what’s going on. What has you so terrified?” She starts to wake up, sees you and instinctively lunges towards you with a look like a mad woman in her eyes, knocking you off the bed. She’s trying to claw at you, but you pin her arms down in a forceful body hug, and are talking in a loud, firm voice “Wake up honey. It’s me, it’s your daddy. I’m not going to hurt you. It’s all a bad dream. Please, calm down, tell me what has you so frightened. Who are you so terrified of?” She finally realizes where she is, safely in your arms, at home, in her room. Thank God! Nobody will hurt me here. She bursts into tears and great sobs of grief and it is quite awhile before she is able to speak. Then she starts to tell you of her nightmare at sea. Yes, she did have the plumb assignment, on the plumb ship, with frequent access to the plumb man, the Captain. They worked side-by-side a lot, mostly in the late afternoon and early evening, often over dinner in his cabin. He had requested she give him the daily wrap up reports instead of the Lt. Commander, and while he didn’t like it, he couldn’t buck to boss. He had the morning briefings and planning sessions. Like she’s told you, she disliked the Captain, actually from the beginning. He just gave her the creeps. And something about him reminded her of that cowardly, wimpy, whiney “Frank Burns”, hiding behind false bravado and loving the power of his rank, and lauding it over others. But he was the boss, she had to obey his commands. So she was always well prepared for the meetings, ready to go over all the information in a succinct manner so that she could minimize the time alone with him. She really didn’t like having dinner in his quarters, just seemed like he was trying to make it a forced, fake intimacy, rather than the business meeting it actually was. He always insisted they enjoy a glass of one of his special wines together over dinner. That was his hobby, fancied himself as a real wine sommelier or something. Well, one night he served her his prize wine. Made a big deal about how rare and expensive it was, but it was appropriate for a celebration. All the bugs had been worked out of their project, and the first day of implementation had gone so smoothly. And it’s success was largely due to her input. Yes, she was a real smart cookie with a bright future ahead of her in the MM’s and he could make sure she made the right contacts, and she’d be his right hand “woman” on the job as they completed this project. And he would make sure she was properly rewarded. Well, the wine didn’t taste all that great to me, and as we were finishing dinner I started to fill really dizzy and nauseous. I excused myself and went to the restroom, washed my face with cold water, but it didn’t help. I half stumbled out of there, and he supported me and took me over to the couch to lie down. He tried to make me comfortable, and I told him I just wanted to get back to my room. He said, no, I looked really sick and he was going to summon the ship’s doctor to come up there and care for me. Just lay there, and he’d call from his office in the other room and the doctor would be here pronto. Well, I must have passed out, because the next thing I know I wake up naked on the couch with that bas+ard on top of me, forcing himself into me, telling me how good I looked and felt, and how he was initiating me into the world of a successful MM woman. How he was the perfect lover and how lucky I was to be able to be pleasured by him. The idiot was talking to himself, in his own dream world, not even aware that I was beginning to regain consciousness. I started telling him “No! No! No! Stop it you sick bas+ard!.” Then he got angry and physical, and easily overpowered me as I was in a drugged stupor. It was so vile, and horrifying, Dad, I thought it would never be over. When he was finally satisfied, he rolled off of me and asked, “Now wasn’t that grand! Lucky you to be my woman for this tour of duty!” I almost threw up. I was so shocked and confused and enraged. I saw him as a crazed animal. I wouldn’t even acknowledge the words he spoke to me; I just dismissed him and refused to say anything at all. I threw myself together as quickly as possible and headed straight to the Lt. Commander’s quarters and found him there. I told him what had happened and that I wanted that son-of-a-bi+ch court martialed, stripped of his authority, and buried under the dam* brig. And to my horror, he replied, I guess I should have warned you of his reputation. That is his mo. He sets his eyes on some female officer and promises to pave the way towards a glorious future with the MM’s in exchange for their “company”. Understand he’s good at keeping his promises, too, to keep them in line and “enamored” of him. Understand there’s even competition among some of the female officer’s for his attentions as he has helped the career of quite a few. Though I was a bit concerned by his assigning you the evening wrap-ups, I didn’t think he’d court a newbie, nor force himself on you. But now that you know the score, be wary of him. You’re a big girl now, and you can take care of yourself. The tour is half over. If I were you, I’d let him know in no uncertain terms that you have no desire to be his paramour, avoid him as much as possible, and keep your mouth shut. He has such a huge ego, to be deflected by a beautiful young woman like you will be a real slap in the face. And don’t tell anyone else. I’ll keep your confidence. I’d hate to think what he’d do if he “lost face” with the staff and crew. He can be villainous, you know, and he has all the right contacts. He would try to crush your career, as well as anyone who tried to help you. I’d say it’s not worth the risk. Just suck it up and deal with it the best you can. You are resourceful, bright, and strong. You can handle it. Hey, look on the bright side, you’re a woman and have the right equipment to open doors men don’t have. Use it to your advantage. I had no where else to turn. I could either suck it up and face it, or jump overboard in the middle of the ocean. I’m no quitter, I’m a fighter. So I was determined not to let that SOB touch me again. Easier said than done. He took every opportunity he could to “loosen” me up when were alone, letting his hand linger just too long, give me a pat on the butt, etc. He raped me, forcefully and cruelly on two more occasions. I finally decided it would be better not to fight him, but to have it more on my terms. I initiated the next encounter, stroked his ego, did whatever it took to please him. I let him know I’d choose a special night every week to do this, to please him, but to build anticipation he could never make any sexual advances towards me. Never. Well the “Frank Burns” wimp in him took the bait, and then I was in control. But I knew I was nothing but a wh*re. “Why didn’t you tell me?” you ask. She replies, “Why? How could I tell you your daughter prostituted herself? Would that make you proud? I am so ashamed of myself, I feel so dirty, and guilty. What did I do to make him think I was anything less than a professional MM? What vibe did I give off for him to think I wanted to be his paramour. Where did I go wrong? How did I screw up so badly? How did I let myself down? I scorn women who try to sleep their way through life. They are the scum of the earth to me. Yet now I have to accept that is precisely what I have become. How did I shatter my dreams? How did I disappoint myself so wretchedly? And you and mom? How can you ever forgive me?” And after she’s poured her heart out to your, your reply would be: He!! no, Jonny. You’d be more likely to say: Forgive you, honey, for what? You did nothing wrong. This is not your fault. You did nothing to ask for this or deserve this. You are completely innocent! That son-of-a-bi+ch violated you. He is 100% responsible. He took a young Ensign in his charge and abused her for his own pleasure. You had no one to turn to. After I kill that Captain, I’m gonna kill that Lt. Commander for betraying you and putting you in harm’s way. He knew better. He should have made it clear this could happen, so that you could have used that information to make your decision on what assignment to choose. They both abused you. Do NOT blame yourself in any way, shape, or fashion.” All you posters out there, when you hear stories of sexual abuse, try to put yourself in the shoes of the mother or father of that girl, and not the “arm chair quarterback” critiquing the re-runs of a game. That’s not the time to try and solve the problem, point our what mistakes she made, or the “red” flags she overlooked. Believe me, she has beat herself up more throughly than anyone else will ever be able to do. She’s looked at it from every angle to see where she blew it. She’d criticized and condemned herself over and over again to the point it’s extremely difficult to look at herself in the mirror. That haunted face staring back at her torments and confuses her, and reminds her of what she was once, and lost, and can’t figure out how. Most importantly, she is still blaming herself, internalizing the whole horrid incident. And she feels horribly ashamed and it takes every ounce of courage and then some for her to dump her heart out to you. LET HER DUMP. When she pauses to catch her breath, don’t rush to fill her pauses with chatter. Don’t try to fix it, don’t try to give her advice, don’t try to smooth it over, don’t try to make it less horrifying than it was. When she has the courage to confide in you, let her relive it as fully as she chooses and needs, let her dump it all over the place. Then when she’s finished, enjoy some quiet solitude for a bit, just comforting each other. When she’s ready, she’ll ask "What will I do? How can I regain my old self?" Then build her back up, encourage her, show her the villain’s role and make it distinct from hers. Help her to forgive herself. Get her counseling. And keep loving her through the healing process. Don’t bring the subject up to her to discuss it later, let her take that initiative when she’s ready and not feeling vulnerable. Then is the time to offer advice. And don’t change your image of her. Always remember she is the same wonderful person she always was, and treat her that way. The last thing she needs is your pity. Or worse, your scorn. And when you read stories, take that same stance and put your empathy and compassion to work. It’s so easy to look at a situation with 20/20 hindsight and pick out the objective errors she made, what she could or should have done differently to avoid the situation. But try to understand what was going on subjectively, how she missed the clues, how she let herself get into a compromising position, or do things against her better judgment. For lack of a better phrase, try to “feel her pain”. If you can do that, then your words concerning such stories here will portray the heartache you can feel for her, and will not come across as judging her. Nothing could hurt her worse than to feel belittled or as if she’s being treated like Chevy Chase treated Jane Curtain on Saturday Night Live newscast “Jane you ignorant slu+”. That will just send her spiraling back down into the depths of condemnation, and will stunt her healing unbelievably. Just my sermonette for tonight from someone who has been there, and is so grateful for those who comforted her and brought her back to life, and has forgiven those whose “ignorance” of how to treat the aftermath of the destruction hurt her during that time. Jonny, hope you don’t mind I used you for an example. You have made such good use of stories, and I thought it was a good way to handle what I wanted to communicate. I meant no malice or harm towards you at all. If I make my next post, it will be what I worked on last night as I was re-reading pages 5-10 of this thread and trying to see it through the poster’s eyes and hear it through the receiver’s ears. It’s long, so don’t know if I’ll make the effort or not. But it would give the background to what I was thinking and why this post struck me the way it did and what inspired the story above. So far I have only read through Jonny’s post on the top of page 11 in this thread. I’ve caught the tail end where it was when I rejoined, but need to read middle to know what it’s all about. Suda (hoping she’s not boring you all to tears with her musings)

Is it "A Summer Song" by Chad and Jeremy? The year, ummmmmmmm . . . my pre-teen years, so guessing mid 60's. 1964? 65? 66? Not really sure, but do remember singing along to the song. Suda

Too funny! Suda

Still coming up with a blank. But I'll keep thinking. Suda

Gee, too late. I knew that one! Wonder why I'd know Memphis, TN. Hmmmm.... Suda