Suda

To me Oakspear, Bramble, Belle, Lifted Up, and Mr. P-Mosh are sterling examples of posters who have chosen non-Christian belief systems post-twi. They, among others, have helped enlighten me as to why someone would adopt agnostic/atheist/non-theist beliefs versus Christianity. Their viewpoints are well reasoned and presented in a logical manner that are easy to follow and understand. Their posts entreat you to honestly examine your own beliefs and consider them in contrast to the information they have presented. Their “attitude” in posting comes across as confident and tolerant, and open to discussion and exploration. They seem comfortable with the idea of variances in beliefs and exhibit no need to criticize another’s belief system. This leads me to believe they are at peace and at ease with their beliefs. Others who have chosen non-Christian beliefs seem to have the attitude of “reformed smokers” in their posts. Often, their posts anger me because of the arrogant, condescending tone, intolerance for differing viewpoints, and what seems close to (if not actual) venomous nature. I sometimes wonder if this is “separation anxiety”: a reflection of their disappointment in themselves for having once held beliefs they now reject. It’s almost as if they need to attack others to help appease their own self-loathing for allowing themselves to be deceived in the past. Is this like a stage of “grief” they must pass through? Is it something they overcome, or does continue forever? The only post in this thread that resembles the “reformed smoker” attitude is the one from Sudo. Comparing it to a previous post in “How can you not Believe” from December 23, 2005, the tone is less caustic, but not to the caliber of one by Oakspear or others I mentioned earlier. So here’s another question . . . why the difference in attitudes? Just poster “personality” or something else I’m missing? Suda (confused and bruised and miffed by Sudo’s posts)

Lifted Up, thanks for your response. Re: I think a personal experience of being touched by the Master’s hand would be proof to the individual, but not necessarily to anyone else. However, if they saw or heard of the “sign, miracle, or wonder” that happened in my life, it might strengthen their belief if they were already a Christian. If they were not, it could spur them to learn more and could be a stepping stone for them to eventually adopt Christianity as their belief system. However, if they have no interest in Christianity, it would not serve as proof nor a motivator to them.LikeAnEagle, I can really relate to your statement: Thanks for putting it in purple! Belle, think you’re absolutely right in Also agree wholeheartedly with Yeah, those who see it their mission to proselytize everyone to their particular mind set are annoying. To me, the witness should be in the way you live your life more than words you speak concerning your faith. Reminds me of the poem, “Sermons We See”. If someone desires to know more about my faith and beliefs, I'm glad to discuss it with them. If it comes up naturally in a discussion, I'm eager to talk about it. But I’ve never been one who was comfortable with “witnessing” just for the purpose of getting recruits. Guess the only proselytizing I’ve ever been comfortable with is in teaching my children, but I see that as my job as their momma. Now that they are of an age to make their own decisions concerning their faith, my desire for them is to find a faith and belief system they are comfortable with and that meets their individual needs. I’d love for it to be Christianity, but if it is not, I could accept their choices. Love your quote from socks, also: Thanks for all the input! Suda

Thanks for all the responses. I have enjoyed reading them. Here's another possible bottom line: I was brought up in a close-knit, warm and loving Christian home. My parents taught me their personal Christian beliefs, morals, and values from birth. They showed me how to put into practice what I had learned in my daily life, and how to make choices and decisions about my life based upon the core beliefs of our religion. My parents attended a Presbyterian Church; my fraternal grandparents were Primitive Baptist; my maternal grandparents were Roman Catholic. I was also taught the Christian beliefs, morals and values of my grandparents. I recall not discrepancies between the morals and values taught. However, there were significant differences in the Christian beliefs between Presbyterian, Primitive Baptist, and Roman Catholic faiths. Over time, I sifted through what I was taught, kept what “fit for me personally” from each, and discarded parts of each belief system that I did not agree with. Overall, my experience with Christianity was positive. It provided what I considered to be a good foundation for discerning between right and wrong, and gave some good direction in how to live my life. It provided me with a standard against which to evaluate new information and experiences. It provided me comfort and hope in bad times, and peace and confidence in good times. Had I grown up in a Christian home, with parent’s who did not “practice what they preached” and/or had an overall bad experience with Christianity as a child, I’m sure it would have spurred me to look elsewhere. Had I been reared in another religion, and had my experiences with that religion been positive overall, I think it would have taken something cataclysmic to sway me away from that upbringing. So another “bottom line” as to why I am Christian, is that it was the faith of my family, it was overall positive learning experience, and I often experience what I believe to be the personal touch of God and Jesus Christ in my life. I desired a personal relationship with them, and feel that I have developed intimate relationships with them. Suda

Another way to state the "bottom line" in my previous post could be: IMO, one can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God. Our belief or non-belief is based upon whether or not we experience what we believe to be God working in our lives. Suda

Most posters here were at one time or another affiliated with twi, a ministry that was considered by those I knew personally to be a Christian organization. Most posters here have, also, left behind their affiliation with twi for a variety of reasons. After exiting, we have explored various spiritual and/or non-spiritual paths. This is as it should be, imo. The primary reason I came to GSC was to gain insight into how someone could go from being a Christian to being an atheist. The café has helped me understand this better. One bottom line may be our experiences and how we interpreted them. For those who experienced and/or saw what they considered to be “signs, miracles, and wonders” in their lives personally and/or in the lives of others, if they attributed these things to God, they may continue to believe in God. For those who experienced and/or saw what they considered to be “signs, miracles, and wonders” in their lives personally and/or in the lives of others, if they attributed these things to something other than God, they may have adopted another belief system. It may be another religion or it may be atheism or agnosticism. For those who never experienced and/or saw what they considered to be “signs, miracles, and wonders” in their lives personally and/or in the lives of others, they may no longer believe in God be an atheist, or they may be unsure as to whether or not there is a God or gods, and align themselves more closely with agnostics. Or they may have adopted some other belief system. My question is not “who is right and who is wrong” for belief systems are personal for each individual, and everyone must adopt what they feel is the right choice for them, personally. One shoe does not fit all, nor should it. I’m just sorting out what the “bottom lines” may be in adopting a particular belief system. Any thoughts? Suda (who considers herself a Christian and believes in God and Jesus Christ)

Rowing Duh, what, perplexed Thinking . . . Suda

Excellent post, Don't Worry Be Happy! Suda

My "Purple" poem was probably adapted from the one by Jenny Joseph. No author is noted. When I am old, I shall wear purple . . . with a red hat which is not in style and I shall spend my retirement on brandy and cholcolate and costume jewelry and the lottery. When I am old, I shall wear purple . . . I will dust my house with a glance and leave my nose prints on clean store windows and laugh even at myself and make up for the seriousness of my youth. When I am old, I shall wear purple . . . and go barefooted in the rain and do "midnight gradening" and learn to spit! But . . . I think I should begin a little now . . . so my friends and family are not too shocked when all of a sudden I'm eccentric and old and start to wear purple! Purple has always been my favorite color. As a child, it was next to impossible to find any "store bought" clothes that were purple. However, my grandmother was an expert seamstress and kept me outfitted nicely. It was one of her favorite colors, also. Several years ago, when I started turning grey, my natural look was the "Elvira look". The grey came in broad bands in the front around my face, the rest of my hair had little sprinkles of grey, but mostly brunette. I didn't like looking like Elvira, so decided to color my hair. And if I was going to color it, I decided to use my favorite color, purple. My hairdresser thought I was crazy but went along with it. We found a shade that colors the grey well, but is quite subtle. In the right light, you can tell it's purple, and it usually makes people take a second look, and most smile and say "I like your hair". Often it goes unnoticed, just dark and not grey. My daughter's were in high school when I started "going purple". People would ask, "what is your mother like", and their reply would be "Well, she dyes her hair purple. What do you think?". Glad I started showing my eccentric side early, so people won't be shocked as I come into full bloom as a "Red Hat Lady" sporting purple hair! Suda (into Purple Power!)

Happy Birthday, Georgio! May you always have dreams that run free, a heart that beats strong, a courageous soul, and a spirit that cannot be tamed. Happy Birthday! Have a fantastic day! Suda

The Lord is my Shepherd; I shall not want… Psalm 23:1 Joy and blessings to you on your birthday! Shepherd of my heart, lead me to pastures of peace and plenty, that I might be refreshed and strengthened for this journey of life. Grant me the wisdom to follow as You lead me beside still waters of grace and goodness. Fill my heart with a yearning to live abundantly and joyously through You, with You and in You. Amen. Have a grand today! Suda

I rarely go to theaters. (Last time was to see "The Passion".) Sudo and I like to watch movies at home, and the kids rent a couple at our Blockbuster runs. How do you know if they are "direct to video"? Not trying to "defend/justify" my mistake, but asking honestly. Not a problem, though, really, cause if I screw up, it's just a game, and we can go back to where we left off. No harm done. Suda

You got it GSG. And I'll pass your thanks on to Sudo. Suda

Which one was he the sinister man in? Superman, Batman, Spiderman - one of those I saw with my son. May have picked the wrong one. Someone else feel free to post starting with GSG's William Shatner Star Trek Generations Malcolm McDowell Suda (who will wait till her son is home next time to post so she know's the correct name. Sorry!)

Oops, my 3rd picture disappeared. City is correct for #1 #2: still to be solved #3: here's a new picture Suda

I don't have to write my autobiography now. It's already been done! Love your post, Vickles! Cowgirl, I have a poem similar to yours downstairs and love it, too. My favorite color is purple, and I love practicing! My kids were shocked at first, but now love it when I act my age and enjoy the freedom of being in the nifty fifty club! Love being who I am and wouldn't trade this age for any other. Suda

Superman: Shadow of Apokolips Tim Daly The Object of My Affection Suda

Here's a suggestion from Sudo, my personal consultant. 3 pictures. Have fun solving. Will check back for an answer after Sudo and I meet Act2 and her hubby for dinner. Anyone want a margarita while I'm headed to the bar? It's a great Mexican restaurant and I'm sure we'll have a hot and spicy time together! Suda

At the end of the day, may you look back and say "It was perfect." Happy Birthday! Suda

Speed Sandra Bullock Miss Congeniality

So, it is Eric Bana? And a Woody Allen flick? All that comes to mind is "Hannah and her Sisters". But as don't know how the people are, don't know if that makes sense. Ah, could it be "Bananas"? Suda (who would still be clueless without all the help from her friends GSG and the Strange One!)

Happy Birthday, LindaZ! Ah, Sweet youth... It's all behind us now! Happy Birthday! Hope your day is perfect in every way! Suda

Welcome to the cafe. Thanks for sharing your story. Suda

One of my favorites when growing up. Suda

Chest Anna and her twins ? Anna Paquin (all grown up) ? Suda

You got it, ADan. Sorry I'm so tardy answering you. You're up! Suda