GrouchoMarxJr

White Dove... I tried to post a quote of your post...but for some reason it wouldn't work... ...But anyway...The 4 year committment to corps training was the ONLY committment that was presented to the prospective corps person. Taking assignments AFTER the 4 year committment was presented as OPTIONAL...this was also in WRITING. Optional means that you can choose to take an assignment or you can choose NOT to take an assignment. This was clear...this was in writing...this was stated publicly and privately to me by top twi leadership BEFORE I entered the corps. This was stated on the paper that twi presented to me and that I signed. There's absolutely NO DOUBT about that. The college division was offered for people who desired to pursue a secular career as a Christian leader while the corp was presented as a program that would train people for non- secular Christian ministry. Why would someone go into the corps with the intention of NOT taking assignments after the 4 year committment was up? Those reasons vary from individual to individual...the point is...the OPTIONAL assignments were twi's offer. THEY put it in writing...I didn't dream it up. If they didn't "mean what they said and said what they meant", then they were dishonest. Perhaps a person wanted the 4 year corps training so that they could DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES how they wanted to serve in Christian ministry. This was the "official" program that twi offered...A 4 year committment, NOTHING more! After they got you "hooked" into the 4 year committment, they tried to bait and switch people by changing what the person had committed themselves to. This was extremely dishonest. As I said before, they had no integrity and they still don't.

Nato...I have been of the opinion for some time now, that Martindale is probably a homosexual.

How did it ever get to that point?... ...The micro management, the intrusion into people's privacy, the mandates, making decisions for people that they themselves should have clearly been making (without any assistance from twi) for themselves... ...What nerve! They should have been happy as a pig in .... that people were even showing up and sending in their money...How dare those lowlifes try to micromanage other people's lives. There's no indication in the bible that this is the way that a Christian ministry should conduct itself. Had Wierwille attempted to do this in the early 70's, twi never would have had the "growth explosion" that it had. I'm honestly surprised that ANYONE would put up with this nonsense... ...Twisting words...this is a by product of trying to control people. At no point during my 13year involvement with twi, did I ever think that ANYONE in twi knew my heart better than me or knew what I wanted to do with my life or how I wanted to live...I was always very clear with twi leadership where the boundries were...even when I was in the corps. When I agreed to participate in their "programs", I felt obligated to what I had committed myself to...nothing more. When they attempted to pry into areas of my life, that I felt were none of their business, I let them know. When I signed up for the way corps (10th), I agreed to a 4 year training program...the 4 year committment was THEIR condition (IN WRITING)...shortly after arriving at Emporia, Martindale announces that the way corps is a LIFETIME committment and not just a 4 year committment ...I objected vehemently...and accused them of having no integrity....of course, that put me on their .... list and they considered me to be carnally minded and such... ...Fine with me. They had no integrity then and they have no integrity now. How dare them!

...Of course, even if they had only 5 or 6 members left, they would continue to plan BOD "meetings" in the Bahamas or Cancun...living off of the money that you and I supplied them with 20 years ago. They gave up any serious goals for outreach when Martindale announced years ago that the word had gone over the world...what a joke.

It was clear to me in 1987 that it was time to hit the happy trail... ...I realize that many folks didn't find out what was going on for some time after that... ...What strikes me is that Martindale was extremely insecure. Before his loyalty letter, he had twig coordinators all over the country filling out their "blue forms", which now included a category of "who's faithful and who isn't", in every twig. I flat out refused to fill that part out...They told me that I couldn't be a twig coordinator anymore... :P . I left shortly after that. It seems that Martindale was preoccupied with whether people were loyal to HIM or not...He was hung up on it. He remembered the way that people worshipped Veepee and he wanted the same...Being president of twi wasn't good enough for king okie...he wanted to be worshipped! He wanted people to scurry behind him, kissing his foot. He wanted to be the guy who was ALWAYS right. The main man, the honcho, the chosen one...when in reality, he was a horses foot.

Did I ever tell you guys that I was ordained by "The First Church Of The Last Chance"... ...It's quite a story...handling of snakes, spoon bending, drinking oxygenated water...Come hither my brethren.

...And don't forget the intangible costs...such as the guy who passed up a scholarship to the university in order to go out "wow"...instead of planting roots and building a career, he spent 15 years traveling from one city to another, washing windows...

There's a better chance of Pete Rose returning next year as the leadoff hitter for the Reds, than to see Martindale post here... The man is a self absorbed coward...he's probably "past feeling" and, as any sociopath worth the cost of his straight jacket, has no remorse... Can't wait to see those depositions posted.

When I got into twi (1975), the twig leader (not coordinator), taught what was on his or her heart. There were no "directives" coming down the holy mail shute from the cornfield pontif...If you asked a twi leader what you should teach at twig, they would smile and tell you to pray about it... ...quote "but it's still not so terrible" krys...no offense intended, but being "not so terrible" is hardly an endorsement that would entice too many folks to attend twig...Besides, telling people what to teach almost guarantees that nobody will be allowed to walk by the spirit...No thanks, don't need that kind of religion.

...Wierwille taught Ephesians but refused to live it... ...He talked about every believer having their own access to God, he talked about walking by the spirit...but he wouldn't allow it. His organizational hierarchy stifled anyone from doing so... The "Word", as it was affectionately called, was nothing more than a portal that led to the control of people's lives, by a religious organization. Had Wierwille allowed every home fellowship to be truly independant, he would have lost his place as "the great MOG who orchestrated people's lives and made decisions FOR them"...The man didn't really believe what he taught.

Just imagine...The body of Christ...throughout the world...throughout the ages...with Christ as it's head... ...and some okie with a big mouth thought he was the top banana of the whole shootin' match... Reminds me of a hypnotist I saw at a night club once...he had one guy convinced that he was the mayor of New York! The guy was waving his arms around...it was hysterical... Yeah...My middle finger still works just fine too.

The fact that Martindale demanded a signed loyalty oath speaks volumes...how insecure can a guy be? Panic? Delusions of grandeur? Maybe he was wearing his leotards too tight. In any case, Martindale made it easy for folks to walk away from the precipice...I mean, asking people to sign a loyalty oath was Martindale's public proclamation that his "cheese had slipped off the cracker". With due respect to Raf's point...I contend that anybody worth their salt walked out the door at that point.

Gosh...My eyes well up with tears over this news. This was a simple woman who did somethong great. She was expected to give up her seat on the bus because she was black...she had the audacity to say "NO" and go to jail for it. When she took this action, she had no idea that her name would go on to represent standing up against injustice and that her actions would be a catalyst for the civil rights movement. She simply thought she was going to jail for her civil disobedience...God rest her soul.

I always thought that it was curious that Mr Wierwille taught his administrational doctrine...placing a HUGE emphasis on the church epistles...but yet...saw himself as a "Moses" for God's people. He patterned his "ministry" after the old testament model, declaring Christ as absent. That's why LCM saw himself as Josuha. I thought John S did a good job teaching the old testatment, but I ain't no biblical scholar.

OK...I'll admit it. I was married at camp Gunnison...It was the first TWI marriage ever performed there...that was in 1977, Dave S did the ceremony and Veepee was in attendance. It was a beautiful and quiet place back then...looked a lot different than it does now. I lived in Colorado for 2 years and really loved that place...what a shame, what a shame.

I recall when I was a kid that McDonalds had hired Bozo the clown to help them promote their products...Bozo was everywhere pushing those assembly line, greasy burgers down everybodies throats...but then suddenly McDonalds decided they didn't want to pay Bozo the large amount of money he was getting...so they fired him!...and they invented Ronald McDonald (who works for free). Ever notice the similarities between the two? Both got red hair...etc., etc., etc. Think about it. Bozo got screwed! I don't know about you, but I grew up with Bozo the clown...and there's no getting around it, they did Bozo dirty! From now on, it's Burger King for me. What are your thoughts on this subject?

The ordinations handed out in the Universal Life Church seem about as "valid" as the ordinations in TWI...Funny, but I dn't recall reading anything in the bible about Rev. Paul or Rev. Peter. Another example of causing division within the body?...The haves and the have nots?...Oh but wait! Mr. Wierwille received "revelation" about who should be ordained! Yeah, and Bozo the clown discovered electricity too.

I suppose that pfal "caught me" at a vulnerable time in my life...I was a social misfit who scorned religion and sought truth from "unconventional" means...Wierwille's approach to teaching the bible was unique in my experience. When I think about my early experiences in twi, when I first took the class...and compare them to when lcm became prez...everything became legalistic, mechanical, and phoney. Twi had changed radically from 1975 to 1987...My heart for the truth had not changed. While observing lcm "running the show", I knew I had to leave. Whatever grifter Vic had conned me into, lcm destroyed. After I left, I began to look at the wrong teachings in pfal...I suppose that I attribute the firey personality and his disdain for churces that reeled me in... ...After he died, so did his charismatic personality...I began to look at things more honestly and from the perspective of a much older person...What I have learned in all these years is that, wanting something to be true and it REALLY being true, are 2 different things.

Like Goey said...it's all about the money. Nothing short of a class action lawsuit would put a dent in twi's assets... ...but the organization itself, has disintigrated to the point of no return...it's a hollow shell, nothing inside but misery and lies...and the illusion that twi tries to present, is becoming increasingly more difficult to pass off as even remotely viable. With the numbers getting even smaller, look for more downsizing to occur.

Nato...You're more than welcome...For most of us here, it's a great joy to see folks come to the GreaseSpot, and to discover the facts behind this cornfield cult. We were all there...and believe me, after being out now for 18 years...life is MUCH better after leaving twi...

Hell...When I got sucked into twi, Wierwille was a genuine "side show". He used to get so fired up, that he could hold a crowd in the palm of his hands. He was a master grifter and as charismatic as hell. Is it any wonder that all the young people showed up? ...But today...look who's running the show. Rozilla is pathetic...and that's putting it mild. Twi is like a wounded animal...it keeps trying to retreat to a safer position and hope that they can survive the bleeding. Eventually, it will be a total shell...the bod will continue to do the "requied activities" in order to maintain their legal status...They can't just dissolve the ministry and split up the dough, they are required to maintain certain requirements in order to be able to operate and "PROVIDE THEMSELVES A VERY COMFORTABLE LIFE!!!"... ...During twi's hayday, we thought that we were gonna conquer the world...that energy and determiniation...In Today's twi...that doesn't exist anymore...they are merely floating along, running a few "programs" and living high off the hog....In fact, some of the very top "leaders", look like hogs. B)

Yeah...I left during the "great purge" of 1987...Everything seemed to be falling apart at the seams, the great clergy meeting had just taken place...still no answers...Martindale continues to impliment new policies that are clearly unbiblical...Two close frinds of mine, who were both clergy, called me and invited me to come visit them for a weekend (they were in the same state)...When I informed the clergy guy in my area that I would be visiting the other two clergy guys, he went bonkers!...Told me that they had "copped out" and that if I went to see them, that I would become possessed!!! Needless to say, I went to see them. One of them was a guy that I had gotten into twi and we had been friends for 20 years... I sat there and drank beer with these guys for the entire weekend, listening to the horror stories of sex scandals, wrong doctrine, corruption throughout, my head was spinning... I KNEW these guys!...and then there were more...more top people walked out...and then I walked out...never questioned my decision...I left 18 years ago and I am even more convinced today, than I was the day I left, that leaving was the right choice. L.Craig Martindale...man of God?...far from it dear friends...far from it. B)

The last time I saw Veepee, he was wandering around hdqrts grounds by himself...he had lost a tremendous amount of weight, but was still wearing the same suit that he had when he was heavier...the thing hung on him like a hobo. He looked somewhat confused and seemed to be wondering why nobody was paying any attention to him. At the time, I wondered the same thing...I figured that they should have gotten him a new suit that fit, and had a couple of people assigned to "acompany him"...Once martindale became president, he no longer needed to kiss Vic's foot...He went from being the biggest brown noser in the world, to treating him contemptously. In hindsight, it looks to me that lcm was totally clueless. He became so obsessed with himself, so delusional, so swept away with his own "greatness", that he entered a world where the sane do not reside. He became Obi Wan Canobi...He thought that with the sweep of his hand, thousands would stop dead in their tracks and gaze at him in awe. How pathetic.

That might be awhile...I imagine that just Rozilla and Donna alone, can displace the water in Lake Erie... :P

Your right jet, light dispels darkness... ...And there were some really fine, loving folks who were involved. ...but all those things that you miss are not gone. The bible teaches that the true body of Christ is a spiritual body...with Christ as it's head. Someone told me once that they would rather know Christ without an organization than to be part of an organization where Christ was absent....The household of God is all around you...they're just not wearing name tags. After the regimented perspective of twi, it takes a little time to realize that. Not that there's anything wrong per se, with a Christian organization...in fact, there's plenty of good churches out there and other groups that are Christian oriented. I encourage people, who have recently left twi, to go out and "spread your wings"...and that means something different to each person. For some, the experience of living a Christian life "without a net" is an exhilerating experience. It's sorta like taking the training wheels off of your bicycle...A spiritual life that is not filtered through a religious hierarchy. For me, I've discovered that many of the "Christ in you people" that I know are not found sitting in church pews...I've learned that getting involved in people's lives and in different situations is a wonderful way for me to express my Christian faith... ...When I was in twi, everything was cut and dried. The household were people who had met certain orgainzational requirements, fellowship was a structured meeting at certain times, if I wanted to know the spiritual "staus" of someone or something...twi would provide a list for me. In hindsight, I wonder how much "spiritual perception" I really had while in twi...It's much more challenging, fulfilling, and REAL to trust in the Lord and not other men.