GrouchoMarxJr

Putting together another foundational class was not only predictable but essential in order to generate new revenue. After Martindale killed Veepee's cash cow, they desperately needed to come up with something "new" in order to maintain their plush lifestyles. If they were genuinely interested in the furtherence of the gospel, they would disband and tell their followers to find a good church to attend.

I'm not sure of the exact wording that he used, but in pfal, Wierwille states "You tell me who you think Jesus Christ was and I'll tell you how far you'll go with God"... ...I would add...You tell me who you think Victor Paul Wierwille was and I'll tell you how far you have come in your cult recovery. Most of us here could probably put together a "biblical class" and pass it off as our own "research". In fact, many ex twi leaders have done that very thing. Personally, I would rather earn my money by doing honest work. If I were to teach people the bible (as I understand it), I certainly wouldn't be charging money and creating an image of myself as "some great one". and yes, the claim that Veepee had all 5 gift ministries was proclaimed by numerous twi leaders on numerous occasions...Veepee was aware of this and never said "boo". He either allowed this to happen or instigated it himself. Twi was an extension of Veepee's enormous ego. After his own denomination fired him for sexual misconduct, he decided to start his own denomination with himself as the foundation (Christ was absent doncha know)... For me, reading oldies post is like going back in a time machine 20 years...the only difference is that we didn't know any better...oldies...you are without excuse.

The answer is obvious...the word taught in twi was not powerful and healing. It was twisted and used for the personal agendas of those cruel people.

The root of the problem with Martindale's "loyalty oath letter" was his total lack of spiritual understanding. Christ is the head of the body...not any organization or any man. If a Christian leader functions correctly within the body of Christ, there is no need for him to ask the question that Martindale asked. It was egotistical and only demonstrated that twi was nothing more than a worldly organization. If you were one of those poor souls who depended upon getting a paycheck from twi...then perhaps the question was appropriate...but again, it only underscores the reality that the household of twi was "something different" than the household of God as depicted in the bible.... ...Receiving a paycheck from an incorporated denomination is not the same as being a minister of Christ who walks by the spirit...if you cannot see the difference, perhaps it's not too late for you to sign the loyaty oath?

I'm not sure that a "Wierwillite" is a person who believes in his teachings because quite frankly, "his teachings" were not really his teachings...he stole most of them from other Christian teachers. I would define a Wierwillite as someone who believes something is true because Wierwille taught it...someone who "worships" Wierwille, considers him to be their father in the word, esteems him above all other contemporary Christian teachers, thinks of him as the "greatest Christian teacher since the first century", the great prophet, apostle, teacher, etc... In other words, a Wierwillite is not someone who holds his teachings in high esteem as much as they hold the man in high esteem.

I describe myself simply as a Christian...no other labels are necessary or appropriate for me.

So...Am I supposed to forgive lcm for what he did to OTHER people?... ...What lcm did to me personally, is small potatoes compared to what he did to others...I've had MANY people do far worse things to me personally than what lcm did to me, therefore I have no problem forgiving him for what he did to me...but forgiving him for what he did to others?...I think it's almost a form of egotism for me to assume the right to forgive him for what he did to other people...that's God's place (and the people to whom he did it to)...not mine.

Checking out this website is like a recovered drug addict walking into a crack house...

My suggestion is to stay away from twi and all it's offshoots... ...there's plenty of good churches around...joining up with a cult will only come back to haunt you. ...and yes, I knew John Hendricks...

If twi is an "expert" on hearing God's voice...then why didn't they know that their "ministry" was about to hit the wall harder than Mr MaGoo playing jai lai? Furthermore...if you gotta tell somebody 17 months ahead of time, that they're gonna need to put gas in their car to get there...what kind of morons are they grooming? Lemme see now...the "revelation manifestations" are supposed to be "God talking to you"...if this is a reality in their own lives...why don't they just SAY IT plainly? "Advanced class grad"...puuuleeeeze...If God ever spoke to Rosie, she would clutch her chest and die on the spot. If you ever want to hear God's voice, you better have a dark suit and plenty of snacks... My question is this...does Rosie wear a nice dress or a dark suit?

Veepee was a lecherous, lying, drunk but he DID build a successful cult... The new pope hasn't had enough time yet to prove himself one way or the other... Rosalie is not a leader at all...good bad or worst... LCM...the winner of the worst leader award in my opinion...he took a successful cult and ran it into the ground, eliminating every successful program that Veepee built...he single handedly dismantled the whole operation. ...and Chris Geer...he mighta beat out LCM for the award but he was never president of the cult...his little splinter group is a joke.

Recovering from twi is sorta like recovering from a broken thumb (I had a broken thumb)... ...At first, it seems like the thing will never quit hurting...and then one day, you realize that it just doesn't hurt anymore...it takes some time...be patient and kind to yourself. :)

I wonder if this "new class" is to distance themselves even further from the defrocked minister (lcm)... ...or if maybe Rosie saw some snow on the gas pumps and is ready to bring "new light" to twi? I seriously doubt that Rozilla would be doing any of the teaching...listening to her for more than 2 minutes is akin to the water boarding torture.

Twi disintigrated like a rotten pumpkin hitting the ground after being thrown from a helicopter.

For the glassy eyed followers who spent time with veepee, it was MORE than just his doctrinal teachings from the bible...wierwille would go on and on spewing his opinions on everything from who is the greatest tenor in the world, to the proper way to pull taffy...he had opinions on Willie Nelson, Ronald Reagan, Wilt Chamberlain, and dozens of others...he would talk of his favorite type of sausage, the best way to grow carrots, and why fire wood should be stacked a certain way...the guy was constantly giving his opinions on things...so what you say?... ...The true wierwillites hung on every word he said! If Vic thought that polyester jackets were the way to go, everybody there would go out and buy one. Remember the old saying?..."A suggestion is tantamount to an order"...If Vic stated his opinion on something...there would be a certain number of folks who would adopt the same opinion immediately. For too many twiers, Vic took the place of their absent brain... ...talk about idolatry! They worshipped the ground he walked on...every word that came out of his mouth...people were ooohing and aaahing. Looking back, it was pitiful.

I also believe that the "tithe" was to be taken to a levitical priest... ...can anyone direct me to a levitical priest?...and does he accept mastercard?

Wierwillites hate it when you challenge their guru's doctrines... ...Pfal...(including the writen form)...is laden with errors. Probably half of what he taught was wrong. Some of wierwille's doctrines were very destructive to the individual. When the "absent Christ" doctrine and the "law of believing" doctrine are combined...Suddenly, the "way believer" can now operate power that eminates from within his/her own mind...effecting events in the external world...God is not necessary in this process and Christ has been relegated to a position of uninvolvement... the depersonalized "holy spirit" has become as a car battery...not unlike Green Lantern's power ring. Twi is Christianity without Christ.

Well sure...that makes perfect sense. You can argue doctrine all you want to but when it comes down to HOW YOU LIVE, people pay attention.... People who are in twi need to understand the reality of their situation. They are flat out being conned. They are expending their energies, their finances and their time to this group...and it's a dead end road. Believe me, Been there, done that. No debt policy?...Are you kidding me? The people telling you this crap have it made financially...they are still living off of the money that I gave them years ago...THEY don't need to go into debt...twi pays all their expenses! ...but YOU...you poor schmuck...no mortgages for you! You can be a "renter" for the rest of your days... ...twi will leave you dangling...you count on them...you lose.

Once you have overcome the "cult experience", you are like the "bridge builder" from the old poem...you stand at the crosswords where people are lost and scared and aren't certain what road to take...you hold out your hand and say "this way brother..." So many of us know what they are going through...and if WE can't help them, who can? We've been there...we understand. Even after all these years, I still stand ready...ready to extend help to anyone who has been hurt by twi...anyone who needs to talk...who needs a friend (no strings attached). Shakin' twi out of your head takes time...but when you finally emerge out of waybrain...life begins in earnest...and it's MUCH better.

suda...welcome to the cafe. Reading your posts, I assume that living with Sudo must be "interesting"... It's good to see a person who is faith filled and endeavoring to shed the best light on a "situation"...my only comment is to say that I think Wierwille was a loathsome creature and I have nothing but contempt for him...but let me compliment you on your courage to say what you have said, here at the Greasespot... ...defending Wierwille's life is a thankless job here...

Amen to that! I have been out of twi for nearly 20 years now. (I was involved for 13, including my corps experience)...Everyone here offers a unique perspective of twi. No two experiences were exactly the same...the combined experiences of the many posters here, presents not only an "insiders view" but an "overview" as well. When all the various posts are read collectively, a definite picture begins to emerge... ...I receive satisfaction from being a part of it. Knowing that some "innies" are reading what I post...maybe, helping them to "rethink" a few things... For those have recently left twi, let me assure you that there is life after twi...a better life.

Well said Kevlar...Well said. Twi, in it's frantic attempt to "biblically justify" this intrusive attempt at total control into a person's financial life, failed miserably for numerous reasons....laying your money at the feet of the apostles requires that the apostles in turn, make distribution back according to needs...the scoundrals kept too much of it for themselves...they lived like kings and queens, lording over their glassyeyed followers... ...People were giving all they had, making huge sacrifices...and there was no return on their investment. The "loving and wise apostles" that they had invested in, turned out to be abusive, legalistic, aduterous, lying, meanspirited wannabes. The fruit from this "tree" was predictable (in hindsight), and when people finally arrived at the "NO MORE" point, they fled from twi like Olympic sprinters. It's sad to see this nasty little cult still hanging on, living off of all the money from their salad days (our money)...still messing with people.

...A hook indeed! The absent Christ doctrine was their ticket to control the whole sheebang...Can't talk to Jesus...he ain't here no more...so if you wanna know the score, ya gotta go through the waytree...and yes, the bottom line was always the money..."take your foot off the hose" really means that "we sell the power of God, give us your money"...You take your foot off of the hose and twi puts their foot in your a**. .. Great example of bait and switch. Stand strong in the Lord?...First ya gotta know who the Lord is, and he better not be absent, that's for sure.

Sure...I'll have a cold one! thanx... I'm always hopeful that some "innies" will be reading these threads...maybe it will give them pause to think for themselves for a moment...use the common sense that God gave them to see that the emperor has no clothes.

Belle...My apologies to you. My remarks were not meant to offend you or anyone else who fell prey to twi's intrusive doctrines and policies. I also fell prey to many of twi's intrusive doctrines and policies over a period of some 13 years. I suppose my harsh words were prompted by my total disdain and ire towards twi and what they did to so many people...I never intended to insult the victims of this insideous cult...sorry. Because I have been out of twi for nearly 20 years now, I often find myself thinking out loud (posting)...about how different my mind works today, being independant of twi's influence. Although I believe that it's better to be debt free than to be in bondage to debt, I still maintain the position that it is not the business of a religious organization to be privy to a person's personal financial status. Managed debt (home mortages, etc) are certainly appropriate at times...and most all of use credit cards. I just don't think that it the business of the church to have access to this information.