GrouchoMarxJr

I nominate ck for moron of the year award...

...Only if he sees snow on his lotus.

I recall, that at the time Martindale was spending almost all of his time on the aos production, Wierwille was bitterly disapointed in him. Veepee thought that Loyboy should be doing the job of running the ministry as president rather than prancing around in his leotards, and devoting his time and efforts on this ridiculous "production"... ...Of course, king okie was now "el-presidente" and ignored Veepee...I believe that this production was the "trigger" that gave Veepee the realization that he was now irrelevant and to be ignored...it was also the event that catapulted twi from a "money making cult" into the realm of a "trainwreck waiting to happen". The downward spiral began in earnest with Martindale's obcession with seeing himself as "Joshua with leotards", leading the spiritual battle against the dark forces by prancing on stage like a ruptured chimpanzee...rather than to continue the programs that Veepee had successfully put in motion. All in all, we should probably thank Loyboy for this...afterall, had Veepee actually selected a competant replacement for president, many of us who walked away might still be feeding this insideous cornfield cult with our time, efforts and money.

Lemme see...No mortages...no college education...live on a need basis...and no retirement plan... ...wise as serpents?...how about, dumb as Balaams foot.

AOS ll: Perhaps if he did a sequel he could be more accurate in terms of the fate of his own ministry...Just as he leaps through the air (in his leotards), the "lust spirits" can tackle him in midair, knock him to the ground, and put the boots to him...

For those of us who enjoy a good belly laugh, no event in twi's history can even come close to the aos production. It is singularly unique in terms of it's "strangeness" and assininity (is that a word?)... ...If ridiculing twi can be compared to hitting a speeding baseball, the aos production was an underhand lob to the plate...it's hard NOT to make fun of it. Watching Loy "perform" on stage was better than most Saturday Night Live skits. He couldn't have made a bigger fool of himself than he did...it was beyond hysterical. Do you think he could be coaxed out of retirement for a sequel?

I recall quite vividly that Veepee was referred to as "thee man of God for the whole world" as early as 1975...This concept was promulgated by Wierwille himself...it was his idea, his concept, his con...all of it. He set up other people to "teach it to us"...make no mistake, Wierwille was clever. He avoided referring directly to it himself...as previously stated, he defined the terms that placed himself in this position and then sat back (sipping drambuie), while everyone else proclaimed it...he knew what people were saying, he thrived on it, he lived for it, he craved it. I'm sure we have all seen plenty of egomaniacs who crave adoration but Wierwille takes the cake... Martindale didn't join twi until 1972...the mog concept was well in place before that...loyboy simply bought into it...Veepee's goal was to be Moses...we were "his kids"...I think back to those times and I feel like blowing my lunch.

...Perhaps the difference was that the Polings were members of twi...the Martindales WERE twi... <_<

Actually, it should not have even been HER decision...The twi policy is clear...when a married couple split up...they BOTH get booted. Why did she stay? Probably because her marriage to king okie was a joke. While loyboy was committing adultry, Donna was involved in a lesbian relationship with the current twi president. It's easy enough to see why she was given "special treatment".

Georgio... Donna Martindale (if that IS still her last name), is a hard hearted, nasty person. Sins of her own?...YOU BET! Her remarks concerning Naomi Poling were not only uncalled for but unChristian as well. It's a good example of how her heart has been calloused and she is incapable of Christian compassion. She is so caught up with her vengeful feelings towards anyone who left her denomination that she has totally abandoned anything that even resembles Christian behavior. Her preoccupation with "spiritualizing" everything from HER point of view is both pathetic and meanspirited. My God, what a thing to say! I suppose if, God forbid, anything should happen to one of her children, she would blame it on the fact that her husband trashed his ministry and was shamefully defrocked and run off?... By all rights, she should have been run off at the same time that loyboy was...Afterall, those are the standards that twi holds everyone else to! The woman is desperately in need of professional help...a straight jacket would be a good start. Just who the hell does she think she is anyway? The fact that there are people (innies) who listen to her at all is a sad commentary on the state of that God forsaken cult.

Ok...In deference to jonny lingo, I will say that there were some really fine people ordained by twi... ...As I said in my earlier post, many of these folks felt a calling of God and continue to be faithful to that calling, even to this day. I knew/know many of them. It's unfortunate that a few bad apples did some real damage to people. I will take back my statement that most of them should be drop kicked...some of them should be drop kicked, not most of them.

You're right, I had never seen this article before...it looks like it is about 20 years old?

sprawled out...Welcome! Always good to see new faces here. This is one of my favorite subjects to discuss... How valid were the ordinations in twi? Very good question...A former clergyman of twi recently told me that he was ordained because he had the ability to make money for twi... In my opinion, Wierwiile ordained people based upon his carnal considerations. Personality, charisma, loyalty to Veepee and the ability to make twi money...these were the essential ingredients for ordination. No revelation involved. I suppose if a person feels "called of God" to be clergy, then they didn't need Veepee's ordination to begin with...and yes, there are a number of former twi clergy who feel this way and have stayed true to what they believe is a calling of God. In my opinion, the title "reverend" is somewhat bogus. I don't see it in the new testament at all...Rev. Paul? Rev Peter?...nope. In twi, the title rev was more often than not, a source of feeding the ego. It created the "haves and have nots"...First you become a grad of the class, then you get your wow pin, then you become an advanced class grad, then corps...it was an echelon of nametags and titles...who was more impressive?...the ultimate was ordination. ...I think MOST of them deserved to be drop kicked.

...And as far as him feeling guilty for being so "carnal"...FORGET IT...He never felt guilty...he thought he was right in doing the things he did. He had no repentance...he told lcm (concerning his sexual behavior) that he (lcm) would never be a great man of God unless he "loosened up in this category of life"...Veepee encouraged his top leaders to follow his example is screwing all the young way girls...afterall, all the women in the kingdom belong to the king. The truth is...Veepee WAS the man he knew to be. A lecherous, lying drunk who was in awe of himself and demanded the adoration of his followers.

Consider "I wish I were the man I know to be" in the context of his self promulgated image: The myths about Veepee included: 1- Greatest teacher of God's word since the 1st century 2-the man of God for the entire world 3-a man who had not broken fellowship with God for years at a time 4-a man who miraculously saw snow on the gas pumps 5-a man who had all 5 gift ministries 6-a man who had been shown the 3rd heaven and earth by revelation 7- a man who had been "transported" from one location to another 8-a man who routinely got revelation that the rest of us couldn't "handle" 9-the greatest man to live since Jesus walked on earth There are many more but you get the idea...these are all things that I heard either from Veepee himself or from his top flunkies... ...First he creates an image of himself that is incredible to say the least...portraying himself as one of the greatest spiritual giants in recorded history...and then...he says "I wish I were the man I know to be". In other words, he was trying to give us the impression that he himself felt that he should have been even GREATER! It was his way of soliciting even more adoration... He wanted people to say..."Golly gee Dr. Wierwille, you are already such a great great man, and you think that you've failed by not being even greater! Oh please sir, we admire you so much, please don't be hard on yourself because you have already accomplished far more than any of us low lifes will ever accomplish. We are in awe of you sir" THAT's what he was after! False humility? He redefined the term.

Sorry...didn't mean to take this thread by mentioning the Amish folks... Success of the Offshoots?... ...It seems to me that there was a drastic change in "recruitment practices" when twi split apart and the offshoots began. Twi was always targeting new people...the offshoots usually went after old twiers...Guys like JL, CG VF, etc etc etc, had spent years building their reputation and their following within twi...I guess they thought it was easier to grab folks who already knew them rather than to go after new folks who didn't know how "spiritual" they were. Of course, the downside was that they had a definite ceiling on the number of folks they could get into their group...and of course, the old twiers carried a lot of "baggage" into the splinter group with them... Without a plan to recruit fresh blood, their future is both limited and stagnant.

That's right Tom...A lifelong quest for spiritual truth and knowing God wasn't enough to get people to show up for every session...it was the hundred bucks... :blink:

If twi leadership "operated all 9 all the time", why didn't they see that twi was about to hit the wall harder than Mr. MaGoo playing Hai Alai?

...Of course Geer's position of modern technology being evil is not new...the Amish folks think automobiles are evil and still get around in their horse drawn carriages... ...I don't suppose Geer would agree with that one, seeing he was the "bus driving pimp"...

...It was common, in my twi experience, to tell people to "practice" sit by "thinking of letters in the alphabet". Alashanta...belino...cantiki...donatos...elephantos..,frankfurtitoes...etc etc etc By doing this, it would "expand" our vocabulary in the spiritual realm of sit... ...even back then I questioned this...If we are adding to the process with "our understanding", how can it be genuine? I was told not to question it because the mog had approved this technique... ...What a crock of horse sh it... The whole thing was phoney in my opinion.

I think it's worth mentioning that as far as twi's impact on the Christian world...twi was barely a small blip on the radar screen...most church people had never heard of them, or if they did, they considered twi a cult. Wierwille's impact was marginal at best. Outside of twi, he was barely a footnote and had no real "impact" on Christian churches... ...As far as the offshoots go, they exist because of the egos of former twi leaders and the need (real or imagined) of some former twi members to continue with what they find to be familiar and comfortable. All that being said...The body of Christ is a spiritual church with only one head... As soon as someone starts a church/organization, they give it a name, appoint leaders, hoist their flag, and figure out a way to collect money...it then becomes political. To each his own...As for me, I don't like to "clutter up" my personal faith with the politics of organizations.

Although the information on this thread has been familiar to many of us for years, there are many other new folks who probably were not aware of these events... ...I think that the reading of the POP along with the clergy meetings demonstrate the extreme thinking and actions that were taking place in twi at that time. Wierwille handpicked some real whackos and placed them at the top...Why you ask?...Don't forget that Wierwille was a whacko himself (snow on the gaspumps) and "likes" are drawn to each other. Chris Geer, by all accounts, was/is nuttier than a fruitcake. With the death of Wierwille, everything began to unravel. When the rank and file began to see the tip of the iceberg, they left in droves (myself included)... Twi today is what remains of this insideous little cult. After thousands and thousands had left twi, Martindale announced that they had reached the goal of word over the world and, IMHO, they gave up and simply decided to live fat off of the abs money collected over the years.

It should probably be mentioned that this MOG concept is not unique to twi... It seems to be one of the defining characteristics of a cult. Thier leader is always the guy that "God speaks to"...Rev Moon, David Koresh, Jim Jones, the list goes on...Wierwille was one of those guys...he was either delusional or a con man or both...A lot of guys who make that claim, end up in nut houses...in Wierwille's case, he was charismatic, intelligent, and educated in the art of homeltics...people believed him. It wasn't until after Wierwille died that the "spell" lifted for a lot of folks...Their heads cleared, they started to think for themselves again.

I'll try to give you the short version...Man Of God...or MOG is a title bestowed upon the one single person that God Almighty has selected to be his principal spokesperson to the entire human race...The old testament model of Moses is the classic example and is probably the origin for the concept as promulgated by twi. There were of course, other men of God as well...but they were "lesser" men of God because they had not been selected as the "chief spokesman for the entire human race"...as such, they were subservient to THEE man of God. Wierwille taught the MOG concept on a regular basis...His entire heirarchy (the waytree) was based upon this idea...the titles that were given to people in the waytree were actually their "rank"...Wierwille ruled his kingdom using the old testament model...he was Moses and the rest of us were his well organized flunkies.