GrouchoMarxJr

It seems strange to me that there are people responding to this thread who actually endorse" the myth of the 6 million"...as valid information... They seem to cling to the Wierwillian mindset of wanting to have "superior" information in their quest for the "truth"...that's why so many cult members believe in these fringe conspiracy theories...their minds are suceptible to this particular form of propaganda...they're minds are fertile dirt for the all the fringe whackos to plant their seeds of bull sh it into... ...you can take the glassy eyed ones out of the cult, but you can't take the cult out of the glassy eyed ones.

Good thread... Perhaps there are folks who do need to move on...many others of us here, already have. Like the old saying goes, those who forget the past mistakes, are doomed to relive them...we certainly don't want to live in the past, but it's important to understand what really happened and why... ...You can call it closure if you want to...but all of the twi "slamming" is not simply rehashing the past...this cult is STILL IN OPERATION! People are still be deceived and used. Those of us who can see what's really happening have an obligation to "sound the alarm" so to speak. This website is proof in itself that exposing twi for what it is, is very beneficial as there are many many folks here who have been enlightened by these many posts and have found answers and deliverence in their lives. For me, there is no "running from the past"...I looked it square in the eyes long ago.

I think there's been some good points made so far on this thread... ...It seems to me that the doctrine he taught was the doctrine that he found to be "most comfortable" for himself and his lifestyle...His Christian Family and Sex seminar was not only a joke, but was most revealing when it came to his sexual attitudes. His insistance on "informing" all of his "kids" about current sexual slang was not necessary at all. He seemed to enjoy it immensely...HIs "virteous woman" teaching was the height of hypocracy...he put his own wife into a posistion of humiliation by committing adultry and totally disregarded his wedding vows... So what is it? Some of teachings, his behavior was just the opposite of what he taught...while there were other times when he bended the scriptures to justify his own actions. This would indicate that at times, he knew his behavior was sinful and wrong while at other times, he rationalized that he was right...In either case, the man was a severe egomaniac...narcisstic and insecure. The lusts of his flesh were always just under the surface... ...How much of what he taught was designed to justify his action can be debated, but it seems certain that there was much of it that he tailor made to fit his hedonistic lifestyle, his desire to "bed down" young girls, be the mog and control people's lives and of course...generate huge amounts of revenue into the twi bank account...that's why we call him GRIFTER VIC.

If I'm not mistaken...didn't Wierwille compare the "gift of holy spirit" to a car battery? Twi's teachings clearly taught that the gift of holy spirit was an "it"... Twi taught that God (who was Holy Sprit) sent the gift of holy spirit into the person who believed in Rom 10:9,10...incorruptible seed...like some kind of "spiritual sperm" that became a part of the recipient... ...that seed (holy spirit), was incorporated into every cell of the recipient which made him a "3 part" being...body soul and spirit... I'm not taking any position on this...just explaining what twi taught.

"seems prophetic"...The operative word here is "seems". Chris Geer was very aware of the widespread adultry that was going on...he was also aware of many, many of the other abuses as well...afterall, he was PART OF IT! Once Wierwille died, it was not difficult to foresee the crumbling of twi...Geer was smart enough to know that under Martindale's reign of terror, things would soon fall apart...this was not anything prophetic, it was simply recognizing cause and effect. If you throw a lit match into barn full of hay, it's not prophesy to "predict" that the barn will burn down. I believe that Geer was merely posturing himself in order to avoid blame and to continue onward with his own splinter group once things fell apart (which he has done)...I still say that Geer was nothing more than the bus driving pimp with a black heart.

Ok, ok...So I started this thread with tongue in cheek... ... ...But...I certainly don't eliminate the possibility that Martinfail had these tendencies. I mean, scheesch...he certainly felt "threatened" by homosexuals...and it's true..we will never know for sure...unless someone steps forward and admits an encounter with him... Didn't he end the wow program because of his homo hunt?...even as he ended the roa because some teenagers were "discovering" their sexuality in the pup tents? Seems that, for a guy who was so sexually promiscious himself, he went out of his way to trash twi using "sinful" sexual activities for an excuse....makes ya wonder...the guy WAS twisted.

Geer is like the guy in the wizard of Oz...he's very secretive and hides behind the curtain. No telling how much money that the former bus driving pimp has stashed away with his own version of pfal called "Walking in Geer's power"...I think that's the name isn't it?

RumRunner...You're much too modest...if I'm not mistaken, Wierwille stole YOUR corps thesis and added it to one of his books...put his name to it of course.

They taught me that there is a sucker born every minute.

Actually...in twi, it was more like: turn on, tune in, and drop your money into the horn of plenty.

All bow to king okie... ...and grab your ankles.

How true...and Timothy Leary never asked for any abundant sharing either.

Does that mean that all the women AND the men (not to mention small furry animals), belong to the king?

Actually, there are probably some valid comparisons to being involved with twi and ingesting LSD... ...in both cases, delusional thoughts and hallucinations play a major role.

I'm afraid if we sold it to those guys the local police would start raiding it.

...Interesting. Was he also "dry humping" the male spirits as well?

I got a great idea! Everybody can send me their donations and I will put it into a bank account (under my own name of course) until there is enough to purchase the library...don't worry, you can trust me...afterall, I'm a pfal grad!

Considering his vehemant attacks against gays, I often wonder... Many psychologists say that people who "bad mouth" gays the most are really hiding their own repressed feelings...any thoughts on the subject?

...And furthermore: A reoccurring theme here at the GSC is that people are full of bitterness and thus, their judgement is jaded... ...I have been out of twi for nearly 20 years now. My opinions about grifter Vic and his teachings are not based on emotion or on how it affected my life...Many of you have just recently left twi...many others had personal experiences that were devastating to their personal lives... ...My personal experiences with twi are FAR behind me. If I were a Vulcan, I would say that my opinions concerning twi teachings and VPW are "logical"...the facts are the facts. The man was a lying, adulterous drunk...his teachings (most of which were stolen from others) were mostly wrong and destructive to those who believed them. You want to romanticize about the "good old days" in twi and continue to "hold fast" to the teachings of pfal? Good for you...I think you're foolish and need to find a life for yourself that is actually based in reality.

...If I'm not mistaken, Vic Wierwille was fired from his position with his denomination for ADULTRY, long before twi was ever in existance... To say that he was tempted and then succumbed because of the "success" of twi is to ignore the actual facts relating to the man's charector. Besides...throwing out the "good" with the bad? Excuse me, but if we totally ignore the behavior of Vic Wierwille and look solely at the doctrinal teachings found in pfal...pfal is riddled with error! Believing equals rceiving?...sorry, but this meets the criteria of witchcraft...Wierwille's teachings in pfal have caused far more harm to MORE people's lives than his drunken, adulterous behavior ever did...IMHO.

Lemme see here... Wierwille's class was touted as the greatest teaching of God's word since the first century... For those of you who are not good at math, that's approximately 2000 years... Suddenly, king okie decides that within a few short years, those teachings have become "old wineskins". Now...the guy who made the "old wineskins" claim, has been run out of town on a rail and the "present day truth" is being replaced by yet another version of "send us your money and God will talk to you". I understand that there are a lot of folks who would love to "know the truth"...BUT...you really can't be THAT stupid...can you?

I think twi missed it totally on all 9 of the manifestations... Did I fake it?...No I didn't. I spoke "without reference" to what I was saying...BUT, that doesn't mean jack squat...I won't pretend to be a pyschologist but it's not a far stretch to understand how a person can speak in sentences without thinking about what they are saying...(I hear it all the time in the local tavern )... ...If you look at the book of Acts, NOBODY ever went through a class to teach them how to do it. In fact, those early Christians didn't even have the new testament to study...Whatever happened on the day of Pentecost was not the same thing that happened in session 12 when grifter Vic "led us" into tongues. As far as the "revelation mannies"...first thought? Gimmee a freakin' break! Receiving so-called "revelation" was the source of untold f* ckups throughout the history of twi. Miracles?...what? finding a parking spot at the mall? Twi felt obligated to come up with a formula for the manifestations...If these things DO exist, twi never understood anything about them...at all.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?... Was it his hedonistic, self centered, egotistical, behavior that caused him to mis-interpret the scriptures? or was it...his mishandling of the scriptures that led him into a sinful lifestyle? The way I see it... Wierwille was a con man...he impersonated a "spiritual man". The guy was a drunken womanizer who stole the works of other Christian writers and tried to palm them off as his own work. Had he been an honest workman of the bible, he never would have so blatantly plagiarized. How would he know if his teachings were right or wrong? He simply copied them from other people in whom he was impressed with. Thus, the mistakes in his teachings are more of a reflection of the mistakes of those he stole from... ...Both his teachings and his behavior are a relection of the fact that his heart was far from God to begin with.

Right on johnny...Martindale took "really good" care of all of us... ...Thank you Father in the name of Craig. ...and who could ever forget the aos "comic book"...when I first saw that thing at the roa, I spontaneously said, loud enough for anyone within 20 feet of me to hear, "You GOTTA be kidding me!"...I received some very nasty stares from "gawd's elect"...Yes indeed, the mog HAD become Aquaman!!!

RumRunner...Old geezer?...Yeah, well, I suppose so... But at least I never had to wear the black robe (the only thing missing was the Darth Vader mask). So, Platig "advised" the young lady not to marry the guy? Seems consistant with so many other off the wall, none of their business, bad decisions...glad to hear that it all worked out for them. ...Yeah, Martindale seemed to think that he had all this "hidden potential" in the realm of song and dance...who remembers when king okie got on stage (at Emporia) and actually SANG a solo for everyone? It was not only laughable but I recall feeling embarrassed for him at the time. What WAS his problem? Being the "chosen one" to replace Wierwille wasn't good enough for him?...and of course, all the glassy eyed wayfers applauded him as if they had just listened to Tony Bennet performing "New York New York"... ...What a moron! But of course, so many of us were afraid to tell the emperor that he was naked a jay bird. Ah yes, the warm memories of wasting 13 years of my life in a mind control cult...Had I devoted that time to my secular education, I would probably be making a triple figure salary and spending my winters on the Mediterranean... ...and people wonder why I still harbor bitterness? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!