GrouchoMarxJr

Twi used this section of scripture (new man/old man) deceitfully, IMHO...It has nothing to do with denominational affiliation. Before my involvement with twi, I did not follow a cult leader...after I left twi, I no longer followed a cult leader...so in that sense, yes...I returned to my "old man" ways.

I seem to recall a verse of scripture that refers to laying money at the apostle's feet... ...I suppose if one wanted money laid at their feet...this would be an appropriate title to assume. Was Wierwille an apostle?...not by anyone's definition....I have my doubts as to whether he was even a Christian.

I think that perhaps satori is being too kind to this guy. I must admit that with the exception of the politics forum, I generally agree with satori's point of view...This guy is a real ringer.

nolongerlurking...You say you felt alienated from them because they were not "living the word"...and that you "knew better" and that you were "not like them"... ...You leave out the specifics as to what they were actually doing (or not doing) to make you feel that way. If they were doing things that were illegal or immoral or were just crude and nasty...it's only natural for a Christian to feel that way... but if that's not the case...sometimes in life's situations, we discover that our personalities and lifestyles don't fit in with the people we are around...and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not sure what you mean by "ruining your life"...I wouldn't stop attending church because my friends have different belief systems and different lifestyles...I think it's better to be true to yourself and not worry about being "like them". I have numerous friends and associates that have vastly different belief systems and lifestyles than my own...but it doesn't bother me. If they are decent people, I accept them for who they are and relate to them where I can. I look for the common ground. Life can be very interesting at times when we open ourselves to different types of people and different experiences...I'm sure all these folks have good qualities that you can focus on... Twi tried to homogenize us...so we would all be the same. Life's not like that. Be true to yourself but also allow others to be true to themselves.

Wierwille was always reaching to make twi sound bigger and better than it really was... ...The fact is...twi was barely a small blip on the cult radar screen. Most people have never even heard of them...they were/are deluded with their own"self importance"...what a bunch of LOSERS!

Lcm...Vpw?...Hell, how will you feel if you see Jeffery Dahmer there? ...I too am looking forward to meeting Spiderman.

OK...I've ventured into the 'doctrinal forum" to discuss this issue, even though I generally stay away from this forum...and for good reason (at least to me)... Allow me to preface my comments by stating that I gave up, a long time ago, worshipping the bible. As I stated previously (somewhere) that the 1st century Christians didn't have the new testament to study, "rightly divide", dissect, discover the mathematical exactness and scientific precision, or turn their spirituality into an intellectual excercise...they simply lived their lives with the spirit of God within and were led by the Lord... That being said, I believe that within the scriptures, one can discover what twi referred to as the "scope"...or an understanding of the heart of it's entirety. To me, the message is clear...we are to live as compassionate and loving people...caring for one another. You can break it down into categories if you want to by saying this is the responsibilty of the "church" and not the government if you want to...I think that's a cop out. Our form of government is supposed to be a representaive form of government...in other words, when our government does something, they are doing it in MY name...and YOURS. Yes it's true that each family should take care of it's own...and that each local community should take care of it's own local problems...I believe in decentralizing power....but the reality of the situation is that we have a very powerful centralized government that is spending our money on a variety of things... ...I believe that a spiritually minded Christian should desire to see Christian principles applied in every situation possible...whether it be individually, on a local level, federal level, on a church level or a government level...or whatever. Right is right and wrong is wrong. The same bible that says that if you don't work, you shouldn't eat...also says that we should take care of the widows and those who cannot work and are in need...what about the war veterans who are now paraplegics?...what about those who are brain damaged?...what about the single mom with 5 kids and she works at Burger King?...OK...you say these things should be taken care of by the church and the private sector...I agree...but what's so damned wrong about the government ( who is spending OUR tax dollars) from playing a role in this also?...afterall...they represent us. He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword...spending billions upon billions to produce the most awesome military might the world has ever seen...and some of you guys cry like banshees when the suggestion is made to spend some of OUR money on helping people?...ever volunteer your time in a soup kitchen?...I have. It would break your heart to see the condition of so many broken people who have nothing and cannot fare for themselves.... While the greedy devilish corporations ( whose ONLY concern is profit at any cost) are ripping us off blind for billions of dollars, people are worried about some poor schmuck who's collecting food stamps just to survive?...where's your compassion? where's the love of God? I'm not going to quote you scriptures to prove my point...those days are over for me...I'll simply pray that the Lord opens your eyes and your hearts... Peace.

ck...Does this mean that you will be leaving the GSC?

sorry vaden...this website is not about my sins, it's about exposing an insideous cult that hurt a lot of people... ...if you want to read about my sins, go to grouchothesinner.com ...he taught too long...gimme a break.

...Just thought I would throw this tidbit in also... A large portion of the book "Jesus Christ our passover", was taken word for word from a corps persons research paper...when that individual confronted wierwille about it, wierwille threw a tantrum...and refused to give him credit. The true author of that book is a poster here at Greasespot...I won't mention his name...he can if he wants.

Wierwille's spin on "1st century church in the 20th century" was part of his bait and switch con...and yes, we swallowed it hook, line and sinker. Nothing could be further from the truth. Twi twisted scripture to make it appear that the apostle Paul was at the top of some hierarchy...not so...not even close. The 1st century church operated as each individual was led by the spirit...there was no chain of command...Christ was the head of the body...in twi, Christ is absent. Wierwille proclaimed that the written word (which he was the authority of), took the place of the "absent Christ". The 1st century believers had no written word (at least no new testament)... ...As I look back, I am astounded that so many of us (myself included) bought into this con...and it's the same con that twi followers buy into today. With Christ absent in twi, there is no lordship of Jesus...there is only a corporate structure that lords over people.

I can see Evan strutting like a proud peacock...and justifiably so...and I somehow know that you're a great dad to this wonderful lass!...how wonderful...congrats. :)

Go Sabres!!!...It's been a long time coming and I truly hope they go all the way this year...a great team that deserves the cup! Howdy Hills...been a while since I've had the pleasure to read any of your posts (don't come to this forum often)...Hope your doing well...

...and when they finally die, they will probably be denounced for not believing to live. How old is Rosie now anyway?...she looks like shes older than E.W. Bullinger. I wonder if Donna puts a bag over her head?

Actually ck, I like your new signature...it's a constant reminder to me of my need to continue posting at the Grease Spot Cafe...That there are still people whose minds have been warped and are in need of the truth that exposes Wierwille for the fraud he was. Not only was Victor Paul Wierwille NOT an apostle, he was not even a legitimate Christian minister. The man was a lying, womanizing drunk who taught erroneous doctrine...His pretense of "loving" people was merely a pretense for his egotistical need to be the center of attention and to use people for his own selfish agenda...and I knew the man well....apparently, you didn't know him at all. Oh yeah...back to the topic: A definite hint that I ignored was that the money collected from people was always more important than the people who gave it... PS- Hey ck...Bart is speaking to you.

My goodness...Even after the "great purge" of the 80's and 90's...when their numbers had been reduced to a mere fraction of what it once was...with only a handful of followers left...after all those that had the courage to disagree left or were fired... ...even after they have "circled the wagons" with a small number of faithful follwers...they are STILL in a mess? At this point, I would imagine that if there was only the bod left, they would still be in a "mess"... Well...at least they still have all that money.

I think that Way productions is a good example of Wierwille's isolationist approach to the rest of the body of Christ. He virtually ignored anything outside of the little world that he controlled. We were held hostage in wayworld and deprived of some wonderful Christian music that didn't have "wayprod" stamped on it. Recently, a Christian musician friend of mine played a variety of old Christian gospel music for me that he was really into... The Happy Goodmans featuring the great Vestal Goodman The Blackwood brothers Jake Hess J.D. Sumner George Younce Great talent, great heart and great music...Apparently there are thousands of Christians who have been enjoying this music for years and years...I, on the other hand had never heard of any of them. Another example of how the cult experience deprives a person of so many other things that the world has to offer. In all fairness though, I did think that "America Awakes" had some good stuff on it.

It seems this thread was started to show how ridiculous and to what extreme the thinking of VPW was... The amazing thing that I have learned while reading the various posts here are that there are still people who buy into this anti-semetic diatribe. In the political forums I have often been labeled as a liberal who goes against the tide of the establishment and the current government propaganda...in other words, I am often skeptical and often cynical of what many consider to be accepted information...THIS, however, is beyond ridiculous. Oldies contends that this thread is not about the views of VPW...I would refer oldies to the title of this thread. ...and of course, it's merely a coincindence that the same people who worship VPW are the same ones who contend that the holocaust was a myth...

I once asked Sudo how old he was when he first had sex...he told me he was 13 I then asked him how old his partner was...he said "OH, I didn't have a partner until I was 27"

...Of course many of the old farts still there could simply put in for their retirement and live comfortably on their twi pension...whats that you say? There is no twi pension? Hmmm...that does present a problem, doesn't it? I guess the bod could just kick them to the curb and replace them with the youthful glassyeyed ones... ...but how would that make them look? I mean, 30 years of service and then "hit the road jack"? You would think they'd at least have a "Fountain of living waters pocket watch" coming.

...Is that the saddle horn between John's legs? ...or maybe he DID see that damned gay cowboy movie.

Well sure...I can understand that. Those in "God's household" need to be educated that having sex with animals is wrong ...otherwise, how would they ever know? I mean...c'mon you guys...really! My only question is... ...Is Rosie exempt from this rule also?.... ...All the German Shepards in the kingdom belong to the queen?

Right you are, runner of the rum. ...and I would defer to Belle's last post, I think she said it quite well.

It would seem that oldies is more intent upon using his intellectual abilities in defending his position rather than being honest and re-evaluating it. ...denying the holocaust requires blind allegience to an erroneous notion...Too bad oldies...too bad.