GrouchoMarxJr

I will never forget the "dedication ceremony" in 1976 (I think :) ),,,when the bod dedicated the new campus at Rome City. I was a wow at the time and my wow family was invited to this event (as were many other wow families that lived close by)...This was only my second year with twi and I had never seen any of the real formalities yet... There were probably several hundred of us gathered when Veepee, Don and Howard all came walking out onto the stage, single file, in their CLERGY ROBES!!! Up until that moment, I never knew that twi guys wore robes! At first I thought it was a put-on...I thought they were goofing on everybody and I started laughing... I suddenly realized that I was the only one laughing...and I was getting some "nasty glares". That's when I began to see the ritualistic and ceremonial side of twi... By the time I entered the corps, I was well indoctrinated into the twi culture of protocol, ceremonies, rituals, and human sacrifice (just kidding about the human sacrifice part :) )... Some of the ceremonies I remember in twi were: holy communion salt covenant ceremony way weddings ...many of the group "ministering services" were very ritualistic. Even the protocols of standing when they enter the room...the repetition of many of these protocols led to ritualistic behavior. Most of the different functions, whether they were twig, branch or limb meetings became formulated and ritualistic. I read an article once where the author was saying that there were only two legitimate Christian rituals...holy communion and water baptism. I'm not very confident that EITHER of these rituals are legitimate. I tend to believe that the spiritual body of Christ has no need for rituals.

I left in 87, before the homo purge happened...it must have really been something. Martindale was so homophobic, that he probably saw "homo spirits" in his dreams...or maybe it was just Donna...sneaking off towards Rosie's room.

...Would you put lipstick on a pig?

I second the nomination of George Aar... ...or as Al Pacino said in "Scent of a Woman" : "If I had a flame thrower, I'd burn this place to the ground!". Ditto to what Linda Z said.

He said that in 94?...Many of the top leadership confronted lcm about his sexcapades around 87...this was part of the reason for so many leaving... Sounds to me that lcm had rationalized in his mind and justified from the bible that what he was doing was ok... The guy really WAS dumber than a box of hammers.

When twi would send me out door to door witnessing, I FELT like a Jehova's witness...

I think that Wierwille was attracted to the counterculture of the 60's because it, like him, had rejected the mainstream establishment. Wierwille had rejected the established order of denomination Christianity while the hippies had rejected the established order of society as a whole. The main difference of course, were the motivations. The hippies were idealistic while Wierwille had hidden motives. While he was involved with denominational Christianity, Wierwille was "middle management" within a large hierarchy...he had to answer to those above him and his ego was not allowed to flourish as he desired. His departure from the denomination allowed him to become the self proclaimed MOG and stand at the top as the authoritative leader. Within the counter culture, Wierwille found fertile ground in which to recruit. The hippies were young and impressionable (gullible)...His discovery of the "Jesus people" with Heefner and Doop was an open door for him to merge his ambitions with the hippies. He played them like a fine violin, using his bait and switch tactics and luring them into his fold. I'm not sure that the counter culture of the 60's influenced Wierwille all that much...he simply recognized them as a "mark" in which to pull his con...and of course he also recognized the potential for getting laid. (The established order of the denominations frowned upon his extra curricular sexual activities while the hippies took it in stride with their "free love" background)...The hippie movement was to Wierwille what children were to PT Barnum...He found his audience.

I remember "browsing" through the books of Anderson library...this was in 78-79...what I recall is that the books were old and tattered and looked as if they had been sitting in boxes in people's attics for years...and then donated in order to fill shelf space. As far as I can tell, these books were window dressing only...I mean, you hardly need a library to contain the books that twi actually used. A side note...During the dedication ceremony of Anderson library (which was held outside, in front of the library on the steps)...There were probably about 100 people there, Wierwille led the ceremony...some "townies" had slipped through the security and drove past in their car while Wierwille was speaking...when they got to the library, they started honking the horn and as everyone turned to look...one of the "townies" has dropped his pants and hung their bare foot out the car window, mooning the entire group. (I recall vividly having to bite my lip to keep from laughing)... ...In hindsite, the mooning incident was an appropriate gesture for this "dedication".

Wordwolf...By any chance are you writing a book?

Intresting stuff for sure...gives a glimpse into the mind and motivations of Wierwille. One of the underlying themes of the hippies was "do your own thing"...Wierwille. on the other hand, was a control freak who stroked his own ego by controlling and manipulating other people. What Wierwille did to Jimmy Doop and Steve Heefner was criminal and immoral...he stepped in and took control of their ministerial work and just loved the idea of all those young hippie girls that he could sexually seduce... ...the guy was a shameless pervert.

Raf and I had our differences in the past over a couple of issues...but let me tell me you something, I have great respect for that man. He has a heart for God and there's nobody that stands as tall as Raf when it comes to personal integrity and a desire to do the right thing...I have come to respect him greatly and am confident that he will do a wonderful job for the NAHJ... :) We ARE proud of you bro...

For them to admit to all of the wrongs they have done to people would mean the end of their organization. They would have to admit that Wierwille was wrong in much of what he taught and that he was a drunken, womanizing, plagiarist. They would have to admit to Martindale's many destructive decisions and his selfish, self serving, egotistical behavior. They would have to admit that they ran off hundreds (probably thousands) of faithful men and women who had stood with them and deserved better...They would have to admit to destroying the lives of so many wonderful people... ...Where does that leave them? They would have absolutely NO credibility left...NONE. There would be no reason for them to exist any longer...and that would mean the end of their plush lives living off of all that money collected throughout the years.

For many of us, our years in twi were filtered through the prism of "This is God's ministry"...Everything spun off of that concept. I'm not saying that EVERYTHING that ever happened in twi was evil...but for so many years, people thought within the "This is God's ministry" framework... ...My critisism of twi comes from my efforts to "strike a balance" and show the other side of the coin. It's refreshing to see so many different opinions being expressed and individuality emerging from the lockstep mentality in contrast to the "groupthink" opinions that we all had in twi.

I suspect that Raf's recent lack of posts has something to do with the fact that he was recently voted in as president of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists (NAHJ)...This is a very significant position and he has an opprotunity to make an impact on our entire nation... ...I would imagine that this is a very time consuming thing for him... and knowing Raf, he is giving it 100%. We should all be very proud of him... :)

I burned my copy...on uncle Harry day... :)

Bagpipes...Take your time in absorbing all the things that are flying in your direction. 28 years is a long time to be involved...you need time to absorb, assimilate, and come to some sort of conclusion. My prayer for you is that God will not only show you what you need to know...but that He will hold your heart tenderly and massage it with His grace and comfort.... :)

I'm still looking for a Levitical priest that I can give my tithe to...anybody see one lately?

Just because you CAN display their ugly pans, doesn't mean you SHOULD!

Actually, he has a morphine drip going on...anytime he's feels the inclination, he pushes a button and get another dose... :blink: If it were me, I would be hitting the morphine button as often as they let me...

Just talked to Rumrunner...his second surgery is complete and he is doing great...two brand new hips...I can't imagine! He sounded really strong and in good spirits...he sends his regards to all and his thanks for the many prayers. :)

I'm with George on this...Life is too short to spend time romanticizing about a cult experience. While all the "leaves" on the tree were frolicking and having a good time, the roots of that tree were sending the poisons of lies, deceit, manipulation and abuse through the "nutrition system" of the entire tree... ...The underlying reality of what Veepee Cornfield and his band of henchmen were doing behind closed doors, was not the best of times...it was the reality of the times. It was our gullibility and insistance to keep our heads buried in the sands of "wayworld" that enabled them. I imagine that an ex con could think of the "best of times" in cellblock B, when he played cards with his buddies and they all laughed and had fun...somehow it seems to fall short. <_<

...ouch!

Ditto...Ya beat me to it! I talked to Rumrunner this morning and indeed, they are going ahead with part 2 of the surgery tomorrow. Originally he was supposed to wait weeks for part 2 but because he did so well they are going to get it over with on Friday. He is having both hips replaced and will soon be the bionic man.

I recall quite vividly, that when I finally walked away from twi, there was a great feeling of liberation... ...I soon realized that I could be myself again! No more pretending, no more trying to be something that I wasn't and trying to mold myself into the image provided to me by others... and sure, I've made some bad decisions in my life...but I would rather make my own bad decisions than to let some cult make them for me....and the decision that twi made for me...they were bad decisions. So...20 years have passed since I left twi...and the difference between where I am today compared to my twi days?... ...there's no comparison. I have responsibilities in my life but I do not live in any cage. Year after year, the residual effects of waybrain dissolve from your thinking patterns...until one day you realize that you are outside looking in...and you are free from their influence...liberating :)

I think that the so-called "law of believing" was responsible to a great extent in people becoming emotionally trapped within twi. It was a catch 22...when anything went wrong...it was YOUR fault for "not believing". No matter what the situation was, twi would turn it around so that it was YOUR fault...this produced co-dependancy on the ministry that "had the answers"...This, combined with their heirarchy structure (the way tree), provided both the "chain of command" and the NEED to use it. God was taken out of the equation to a certain extent...the power was in YOUR mind to make thing happen by your "believing"...of course, when things didn't turn out right, we were attached to the umbilical cord of twi's magical kindom of spiritual truth and right answers...and we were set up to be manipulated and lorded over. I think it was a slow process that accelerated when a person went in residence in the corps...and after we leave, there's a residual effect that disapears over time...especially when we know that many of twi's doctrines were wrong.