GrouchoMarxJr

pinklady...Welcome to the Greasespot cafe! Always good to see someone's first post...I'm sorry to see that it was to report some more bad news from cult world. I remember Pat Powell! Anybody associated with Geer should be slapped and made to stand with their nose against the wall. Why do people follow men?...probably because they are too shallow to stand on their own convictions without someone else to reinforce them for them....

I don't have anything against churches...whatever decorates your cookies... All I would say is...It's your own personal faith that counts...whatever inspires your life towards Christian faith and behavior and not religious ritual should be sought after....just my opinion. :)

...Of course when you talk about "tuition", a person generally thinks about a college or university... ...The way corps "tuition" provided very little "bang for the buck": 1-It was an unaccredited "education" 2-You were required to become part of a FREE workforce...doing everything from cooking and cleaning to taking care of the grounds, carpentry work, concrete work, and even babysitting and cleaning the houses of the "leaders" 3-The curriculum consisted of a rehash of classes we had already taken and a few "extras" thrown in, like how to pack a suitcase, basic spelling, and and even teaching men how to shave properly! 4-A significant part of the day was spent at "study hall", when we were required to sit for several hours in our chairs (that were properly strung), not being allowed to go outside for a smoke or anything else. 5- The corps "training" was designed to keep people half exhausted all the time and to break them down so that they could be controlled more easily for the work of the cult. To call the way corps training an "education" is a far stretch...that they charged "tuition" is a crime.

The auditorium was dedicated on uncle Harry day?...maybe they should have thrown IT into the fire.

I believe that Mrs Wierwille WAS a victim...she sat alone in her house at night knowing that her husband was frolicking with some young girl in the back of the motorcoach...how did that make her feel?... ...Could she have grabbed a microphone and exposed the evil?....and then pack her bags and split? Maybe so...but it's hard to criticize a victim for the hard thing she couldn't get herself to do... May she rest in peace, she had a tough row to hoe.

My choice to play Howard would be Steve Buscemi. If a person did a lot of chair stringing, would that be "Helps"?

Bagpipes...I admire your courage and empathize with what you are going through... Let the tears of joy flow my sister...and when you play Good Seed...crank it up!

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and everyone has their own unique perspective... From where I view things, I still have to agree with George... Maybe some folks need to romanticize about the "good times" in order to convince themselves that they didn't waste a significant amount of their lives....I believe that the splinter groups are full of people like that...and good for them. If you're a decent and caring person, then all the decent and caring things that you have done in your life have value...including the decent and caring things you did while in twi... ...BUT, I for one will not give twi any credit for my own personal decency and caring, nor will I disguise a flim flam organization that used and abused people for anything other than what is was/is. ...but, but, but you say, "the people in my twig were so wonderful and we had such good times."...yeah, and the beast was picking your bones while you were singing "tempted and tried"... They lied to us in God's name...and for that I will not cut them any slack.

Ain't THAT the truth! I personally knew some folks (won't mention their names) that had achieved world class recongnition in their field BEFORE entering twi...In fact, at the same time that they were achieving their success, they were denouncing twi as a cult!...Wierwille and Martindale BOTH flew into town to court them...two years later Wierwille was marching them on the main stage at the roa! ...made me sick.

!981-84 was a strange time for me... My wife and I split up in our interim year of the 10th corps and we were divorced in 1981...Of course I was dropped from the 10th corps because of it... Martindale told me to "find a twig somewhere and keep in touch" (In between bites of his lunch, and very coldly I might add)..I did neither. I went back to school, got my degree in communications and got a job as a program director at an FM radio station instead. Made some great friends and learned a lot of stuff...had fun. In 1984 I made a huge mistake...I started going to twig again after a 3 year hiatus. They immediately made me a twig leader and of course I was associating with a bunch of corps people again...but something had changed with me. I was no longer intimidated nor impressed by twi leaders and openly disagreed with them often. They tried to control my personal life and even my business (I had quit the radio job and started a remodeling business)...I laughed at them and refused their "suggestions"...In their view I had become a problem. When lcm received the mantle and was dubbed "king okie", I was somewhat perturbed and let people know about it. BY the time the "Schoenheit controversy" had hit I was ready to split...but that was after the time period we are talking about... Looking back at it, getting the bums rush from Martindale opened my eyes. I had committed myself to twi and was ready to do whatever they asked of me...after they booted me from the corp without a second thought and without an ounce of loyalty to me...I mentally, emotionally and spiritually kept my distance. Yes, I did get involved again but I had changed and never bought into their "waytree wisdom" again, as I had once done. I suppose I would describe the years of 1981-84 as the time period when I began to think for myself again...when twi's credibility began to wane...and I put more stock in my own decisions than I did any of the twi leaders that I dealt with. They could see that in me...and didn't like it. I suppose the biggest benefit to me in going back was that when I finally left in 87, I did it on MY terms.

yeah...what you said. I sat through more meetings than I care to think about...very few of them were anything more than religious rituals and cult conditioning...we musta been nuts! ...and they would give you HELL if you were late! They shoulda been happy that I even showed up at all!

I really don't remember how much it cost me to be in the corps...my wife's parents (I was married at the time), were quite wealthy and paid for the whole shot. I watched other people struggle to get their money together...some did and some didn't. The bottom line was...it didn't matter how hard you tried, or how committed you were, or where your heart was at...it was how much money did you cough up. Twi's middle name was filthy lucre. They sold "God" for money...and that was their main concern. They were scumbags and lowlifes... ...they still are.

More than anything, Martindale loved to be "da man"...he craved the adoration and obedience of his followers...he loved to stand in the pulpit and pontificate and scream and have everyone pay heed to his words. He loved the lofty position of president and being in the spotlight to feed his enormous ego... Even if he still pulls the strings...all of THAT is gone.

Once again Wordwolf aptly and effectively explains twi's position on the gift ministries and shows Veepee as the deceptive snake that he was. I would add that Veepee got OTHER people to proclaim his "gift ministries" and spiritual superiority to the rank and file... ...For example, some corps grad would be "sharing" with a group of new people and would casually say with a smile on their face, how "Dr. Wierwille (he was not a doctor)...had the ministries of an apostle, prophet and teacher....while the new people would all look at each other with mouths agape, and say..."wowwww" Wierwille was to the body of Christ what Jack Kevorkian was to medical treatments.

One would think that twi would have learned their lesson with the lawsuit that resulted in Loys expulsion... Are they so desperate for "leadership" that they would continue to condone such activities? ...Or are they so reprobate that they still do not realize that sexual misconduct is sinful and wrong? ...and the guy is sent to Hawaii!!!!!!!!!!!!! A simply gorgeous (and high dollar) vacation place by anyone's standards...You would think they would have at least given him "spiritual probation" and sent him to some place like southern Lebanon.

It was reported by several folks that Howard slipped "mickies" to young girls and carried them into the back of the motorcoach for Vic... ...Uncle Harry was known as "scary Harry, the furniture king".

...It looks like twi is making an impact afterall.

I studied the art of baiting worms and wanted my masters...oh, never mind... congrats! :)

Yeah...twi seemed to bring out the worst in all of us... I suppose the fact that you recognize that you hurt people is a big step. Like coupcake said..."You know the answer". Life is too short to get hung up on this stuff...simply move on and resolve yourself to treat people well. :)

Yeah...Wierwille loved to speak in superlatives... HA was the greatest Christian layman in the world, Claudette was the greatest female gospel singer in the world, etc etc etc... I suppose his REAL point was to let us know that he was qualified to make those determinations...without being called into question. I once claimed that Mickey Mantle was the greatest hitter that ever played the game...people jumped all over me like Mel Gibson at a barmitzvah!...

Standard proceedure to get clearance for a backyard barbeque? Yesterday, I spontaneously threw some charcoal in the grill and called up a couple of buddies. We sat around, ate chicken and drank beer. I simply cannot imagine the mindset involved with getting "clearance" to do something like that. Who in their right frickin' mind would call a "branch/limb leader" to get permission to have a cookout with some friends? Lifestyle bondage anyone?...no thanks boy...no church with you.

I remember well...The branch leader would tell us all that we were to take our twigs out "door to door witnessing" that week. Some kiss foot schmuck would always go "Allll riiiight", as if he really liked it. ...Of course, the strategy was NOT to tell the twig members ahead of time because if you did, they wouldn't show up that night... :( When the dreaded night would come, you would announce it right after opening prayer...immediately, most of the folks there would get a look on their face like they just smelled a really bad fart... and usually, at least one or two would say..."Oh, I meant to tell you but I can't stay long tonight...My child has whooping cough and I have to get home early"... I never had a fear of knocking on doors, as much as an apprehension to looking like a "Jehova Wirness" to whoever answered the door...I might as well have taken a magic marker and wrote "religious fruitcake" on my forehead. At the end of the night everyone would put on their believer face and pretend that they had some "potentials" who were interested...the fact of the matter was that most of us couldn't wait to go home and have a "tall cold one" or maybe "fill the bowl" ... ...some of those nights were like getting a root canal with no novacaine.

Do we get to keep our pets?

Spankings?...Wooden spoons? Where was I? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh...you mean the kids!

...Or, metaphorically speaking...bending over and grabbing your ankles? ...and there goes George again, reminding us all that the horn of plenty was ALWAYS what twi was about. You could make a lot of mistakes running a home fellowship but God help you if you ever forgot to pass the blessed horn...and don't forget to have prayer...just before you pass it. "Oh gracious and merciful heavenly Father, thank you for the priviledge it is to give money that I needed for the electric bill (not to mention, NO BEER tonight)...and to be a part of this wonderful cult. My heart thrills knowing that I have contributed to the financing of this mean spirited, sexually abusive, lying bunch of pharisees...and I know that by the time they are finished with me, I will be a mindless f*** chimp currying for favor and living the life of my worst nightmares....and I pray in the wonderful name of the absent Christ who has been replaced by VeePee Cornfield for the time being...amen." Ah yes....the ritual of the horn of plenty....just bend over and take the horn...and don't forget, "open end towards the recipient".