GrouchoMarxJr

Ain't that the truth?... Whenever you were introduced to another wayfer, the first thing eveybody wanted to know was "what classes have you taken?"...and..."how many times?" A person who had taken the foudational class 12 times was perceived as more "spiritual" than someone who had only taken it 2 or 3 times...Likewise, if you had an advanced class nametag on, you could almost expect to hear the ooohs and ahhhs from the newbies. Nametags, announcing your twi status took the place of legitimate spirituality. Like so much of twi, people's opinions skimmed along the surface and true "spiritual understanding" was replaced with "class consciousness". ...and if you had a way corps nametag...watch out! People's insecurities and egos were regularly fed with the superficial echelon of twi's class pecking order...Had Wierwille honestly wanted people to grow spiritually and become mature Christians, he would have eliminated nametags...but then again, his real agenda was to have everyone take their place in his self made power pyramid of false assumptions and ego driven control freaks. That way, he was the top bananna and had all the money and vices...

Well, it's been a while since I posted this thread and I still haven't seen Howard respond. Cat got your tongue Howie? C'mon speak up!... ...Tell us all how you never pimped young girls for Wierwille and how you always walked tall for God. C'mon Howie, I'm getting tired of waiting. Maybe he really CAN'T read? I don't know, If it weren't for Wierwille, Howard Allen would have been a handy man for some corn farmer...at least THAT would have been honorable.

Seeing that I started this thread over 2 years ago, I thought that I might as well comment further. Howard's biggest contribution to twi was that he, without ceasing, would pucker up and kiss Vics big behind at every opprotunity. THAT's why Veepee cherished him so much. He was Veepee's sidekick. Sorta like what Tonto was to the Lone Ranger. "Hmmmm, kinosabe, you want me to fetch you another young girl?"... ...The few conversations that I had with Howard, I never thought he was too bright.

Right you are skyrider...Nowhere in the bible does it say "The class will lead you into all truth" nor does it say "By their class shall ye know them"... Especially when their classes are knockoffs of other people's research and hard work. We were supposed to be able ministers of the new testament...not Amway salesmen shaking people down for money to take a class.

I think there's a lot to that statement. After Wierwille made his grand decision to centralize all the money back to New Knoxville, any attempts to make decisions locally on the "spending of money" were frowned upon. VPW wanted us to send the money, not spend the money.

I think the key to understanding this is to look at what Martindale was doing (and not doing). As soon as he became president, he abandoned the overall agenda that VPW had spent his time on and focused primarily on his "athletes of the spirit" production. He spent a lot of time on learning how to "dance" and teaching the "spiritul significance of colors"...While he was doing all this, Wierwille bitterly commented that the presidency of twi was vacant. Soon after Wierwille's death, Martindale began dismantling the programs that VPW had built and changing the teachings as well...soon after this he purged the top leaders out of twi in favor of those who were unquestioningly loyal to HIM. Geer was of the "old school" who believed in what VPW had been doing and Martindale's departure from VPW's agenda was interpretated by Geer as "turning his back on God". Twi, like most cults were built around the personality of a charismatic leader. When Wierwille died, the division, the strife and the discontent was predictable. ...And Rascal is right...It was about a "power grab".

In the same way that a hypnotist uses "trigger words", twi employed the use of it's own wayspeak. Certain words or phrases would stop a person's mind cold and turn it towards cult obedience. Oftentimes a person would think through a situation logically, only to change their mind when one of these words or phrases were used on them. "It's not best"...Meaning that no matter how logical or reasonable your decision on a certain matter was, you were wrong if it contradicted twi's directive. Twi taught that "good" was a tool of the devil and what THEY taught was "best". "That the ministry be not blamed"...This was a verse from the bible that twi used maliciously to justify and cover up their own sinful activities. If you spoke out against something that twi was doing that was wrong, you were "off the word" because you were bringing blame to the ministry. "Be not puffed up"...This was a verse that was always directed towards YOU, never THEM. "Our father in the word"...A phrase used to command obedience to VPW. Totally unbiblical and insideous in it's nature, this phrase would trigger the concept that because you were taught the "word" from this man, he was now your "father" and therefore you were obligated to support his positions on just about everything and to be obedient to him as a soldier is to his commanding officer. "Discerning of spirits"...A term that would rationalize and justify demonizing those who refused to capitulate to twi doctrine. Again, logic was abandoned the moment that a "leader" would inform you that so and so had a "devil spirit". How did he know?...discerning of spirits. Geer tried this on a grand scale during his "POP" speech...Doubtful that anyone involved with twi ever actually experienced this "mainifestation", it was used often when a "leader" wanted to both demonstrate his/her "spirituality" as well as direct people's thinking.

Wow!...What fantastic advice that has been given to Pink Lady! I can see that the GreaseSpot cafe continually evolves. The understanding, the sound advice, the concerted effort to extend hearts...Pink Lady, there's some really great advice for you here. You have found an oasis of folks who really care and are telling you the truth...our hearts are with you and you have friends here. Be strong...better days are coming.

...And on it goes. No mention of king okie's name?...I'll bet it had something to do with advice from their lawyers... ...so who is this Chavoustie?...never heard of him...of course I've been out since 1987 (that's nearly 20 years. :) ). For those of you who have just recently left, let me tell you that after 20 years out, looking at twi is like listening to a Firesign Theatre album. It's all laughs. ..."Chavoustie does a mean VPW." ...does this mean we have a new target? Teaching sessions 7-12 means he's the closer. Who knows, if things don't work out for him with twi, I've heard that Benny Hinn has a real dog and pony show that's making big bucks...maybe he could latch on there. ...but seriously folks , without a class to market, they'll hit the wall harder than Mr. MaGoo playing alai lai. Fresh blood, Martindale's name omitted, looks like they've decided on their marketing strategy. I sure hope it flops...they deserve nothing but failure. Something about lying in God's name and using people that chaps my arse.

..."In the days of Pelag, the earth was divided"... ...and there was small hobbitt who one day, found a ring"...

Old Rummy has picked up his pen And he's writing us limericks again With a headful of whiskey He starts out quite risky but nods off with spit on his chin

Having never taken king okie's "class", I cannot give a first hand account...but from all I've heard, it was quite a departure from Cornfield Vic's version...not to mention a departure from Vic's down home, folksy style of luring victims in...Martindale started right from the get go, screaming and spitting all over himself. when he get's to the part where Eve's a rugmuncher, it's really hysterical. His approach to biblical research was akin to Moe Howards approach to performing brain surgery...he totally ignores what certain verses actually say and "leaps" into his fantasy land of homophobia with mental gymnastics and convoluted logic that would make any true theologian wince with horror. ...Although I would actually like to get a copy of it on CD with all the visuals...It would make for great entertainment...sitting around drinking beer and laughing my arse off.

Unbelievable!...I can't tell you how happy I am for him. For those of you who don't know the background...Rumrunner and I have been friends for 40 years...we grew up next door to each other. I remember when he he could go into a full sprint and run like the wind... To hear that he's pain free for the first time in 15 years...well, I just don't have words..... :)

...now if he could only get his pants on. Sorry, couldn't resist. Glad to hear that your making progress. How is the pain management going?

Well, being the "athelete of the spirit" that lcm was...and a "coach" to boot, he was obviously concerned with putting the best team on the field that he could. Joe Torre has Derek Jeter and A-Rod. Martindale wanted people with teeth, a job and a car. The idea of being a real Christian minister and reaching out to all of God's people never entered his mind....that's probably due to the fact that his doctrines and teachings were so ineffectual that he needed to have "winners" to start with. :blink:

Thanks Free...Karl is a real charector! The cult that snapped was an extremely funny book...He's a witty guy and was fun to have around.

Where I live, I am surrounded by Amish folks. I can't help but to admire their honest approach to life and the adherence to their faith. I haven't got as up close and personal as SafariVista, but from a distance they seem quite nice.

How about this one... "Enables you to seperate truth from error": MEANS- Extinguishes critical thinking and your ability to utilize individualistic reasoning and logic and replaces it with a group think mentality that provides a guru who thinks for you.

Had a thing for me?...but you're the one who got to have coffee with him... Did he slip a little drambuie in it for you?... I DO recall how we were told how hard he was "preparing himself spiritually" (whatever the flock that meant), for some upcoming class...funny thing though, everytime I saw old dead eye Vic he was sitting in a lawn chair downing another glass full of booze. Damn...and I though that meant he was getting ready to be "transported", coach and all.

Excellant point. If twi believes that they have "God's word", why would they treat it as a commodity that they own and have exclusive rights to? I can see it now...The apostle Paul copyrights the book of Ephesians and makes sure that nobody reproduces it without his permission...charging a hefty price, of course, for anyone who wants to learn about the body of Christ and how it functions...because afterall, he OWNS that information. Who are they trying to kid?

Strange...twi used to say that if you gave them money, God would bless you abundantly. Now they are saying that you give them money so that you won't lose heart... ...Must be that losing heart is an "opprotunity" for them these days.

That would be equivalent to asking a general "Do you expect your troops to make proper moral choices?" He responds: "I expect them to follow orders" She avoided the question by using this very ambiguous term. "Doing the word" in twi...that means that you follow company policies. Having sex outside of marriage, lying to cover your arse and using and abusing people has been justified with this rationalization. "That the ministry be not blamed", means to avoid doing the wrong thing so that it does not reflect on the ministry...it does not mean to lie so that you can avoid blame for the wrong you have done.

"I know you rider, gonna miss me when I'm gone..." :(

...As far as us men who are more advanced in years... "The older the bull, the stiffer the horn".

Somehow it fits...Martindale becoming infatuated with the sphincter muscle. I mean, anybody who prances around on stage in leotards as "gawds minister", is surely a candidate for spiritualizing the significance of the human waste system....has ever the expression "it takes one to know one" ever been more fitting?