GrouchoMarxJr

In my brief encounter with CES, I saw plenty of control... ...and plenty of religion and plenty of ego trips and plenty of "following men" rather than the Lord... that's why my encounter was brief. Why is it that folks need a "spiritual guru" anyway?...

...And let's not forget something here...the top dogs of CES are not kids. These people have been involved with "Christian" ministry for what?...30-35 years! They are older folks who should know better. There's a multitude of variations in Christian doctrines and practices throughout denominational Christianity....but these variations are usually small and not that significant when it comes to practical living. These guys in CES are reaching...reaching out for some very powerful and large differences than the mainstream...why? First Momentus, then personal prophesy, now dream interpretations!...JAL even went off for awhile denying that God has foreknowledge because it made him stand out. I believe that they have this "need" to feel superior...superior in their "spirituality", superior in their knowledge and most of all, superior in their egos...it's all about THEM donchaknow... Doing the things that the average Christian does is simply not good enough for them. They seem to have a desire to stand out and be superior to other churches...and from my view, that stinks. They are denying the workings of the body of Christ with Christ as the head...they need to be the ones who show the rest of us the things we were not "able" to understand without THEIR guidence...it's about control...and they got this mindset from Wierwille IMHO. Spiritual growth comes from the individual seeking...from an individual relationship with the Lord...not from corporate guidance and being controlled by the ever wise gurus.

"I left my camel filters on the TABLE"...fulfillment abounds! I can't recall the last time I saw a thread "take off" like this one!...such passionate responses! I think that responses from the parties involved would be appropriate...Does Karen Graeser or Elizabeth or JAL or Mark Graeser or John S have anything to say?...C'mon folks don't be bashful. It would appear that the inner workings of this group have been exposed to the light of day and now face the scrutiny of critical examination...and that's NEVER good for a cult. ...Maybe Karen has had a dream about all of us here that she would like to share?...Personally, I think these people are nuttier than a Christmas fruitcake and am hopeful that they will post here to show why all their detractors are wrong....but then again, I doubt that they will because GreaseSpot Cafe thrives on differing opinions...which is not conducive for "dream interpreters"...

The "prophetic council"...sounds impressive to me. Wasn't Obi Wan Kanobi an original member? It has a ring of importance to it...a deep spiritual understanding...those to whom God makes known the things that the rest of us can't handle...the important people...those who work closely with the Lord...the "prophetic council"...I like it.... ...may the force be with you.

I don't know squat about making Yorkshire pudding but I'm just FULL of advice. :)

If she is deeply involved with The Way, I'm afraid that is an impossibility. People who are inflicted with "waybrain" have stopped considering other viewpoints and have abandoned critical thinking. It's only a matter of time before her "Way" leadership gives her an ultimatum that YOU need to convert and join their ranks or else she will be told to break up with you...she will be ostracized otherwise. It may be difficult for you, but breaking up with her is probably your best option...

It would seem that "normal Christianity", where people go to church, worship God, pray and live godly lives...is not good enough for this CES/STIFFY bunch. They seem determined to delve into para normal experiences, pycho drama and abra cadabra stuff (Momentus anyone?). They need to be a leg up on the "run of the mill" members of Christ's body with their ever so special "spiritual insight"...Even from a cursory glance these people creep me out...and for those who are up close and personal...Yikes! Isn't life short enough without subjecting yourself to this spiritually inbred bunch of hooligans? As far as these "prophetic dreams" go...maybe somebody just ate too many pickled eggs before they went to bed?

Good taste?...Rumrunner, you are a very sick man...but so am I and I thought it was hilarious! I was SO looking forward to the OJ special on TV...but damn it, they sh* t canned it before we could all have a good laugh...where's their sense of humor?

...As I'm reading this post, I can only shake my head and wonder...are these people smoking crack?... I posted earlier in this thread on how Mark G's wife used to be into S&M...this was NOT a joke! I heard it from her own lips at the one and only CES "fellowship" that I attended...this woman is "wacko" for sure... after reading the post of her "dreams", I can only wonder if her repressed sexuality is not playing some role in this Stephen King nightmare...or maybe it's Dean Koontz....at any rate, you folks who are involved with this insanity need to nail your doors and windows shut, just in case "Elizabeth" tries to get in your house. [edit by modcat5]

He wasn't a "real" doctor and I refuse to romanticize about this adulterous hypocrite...and yes, I was there in those years too.

Awww...doojie. You're much too cute to flame. :)

I've recently discovered some other sources that huckster Vic copied directly from...sources that I have never heard documented before...I will discuss them at a later date when I have the time and inclination. Wierwille was incredible!...he shamelessly stole from a multitude of sources...and this from a guy who claimed to have hauled all his theological books to the dump and studied nothing but the bible... If he were alive today, there would be a bounty on his head.

I second the motion...if you say ANYTHING to them, tell them to blow it out their a$$.

I crossed paths with these "dreamers" in the late 90's...My BS meter was redlining. First personal prophesies...now it's dreams! Good gravy, maybe Mark G's wife is into S&M again..."whip me, beat me, make me have bad dreams"

Maybe this sounds kinda corny...but when I hear Bing Crosby sing White Christmas my mind goes back to when I was a kid with my family at Christmas time...

..."Porrrrrgy tirebiter, he's a spy and a girl delighter...." or as Mudhead once said..."I plan to cut off the soles of my shoes, sit in a tree and learn to play the flute"

STAYAWAY...Welcome! Personally, I would give myself a 14 on the scale 14- Lowlife sexual predator who lied in God's name to use people for his own selfish and disgusting goals. "The man he knew to be"?...I contend that he didn't even know THAT. His ideas and actions can be compared to Jim Jones, Charlie Manson, and David Duke. The cornfield preacher was to Christianity what bol weevils are to a cotton patch.

Well...I guess that the ENTIRE Second corps is now gone...

Excellant thread... ...I recall quite vividly watching many people having their critical and creative thinking squelched...including my own. Leaving the confines of twi's mental prison was one of the most exhilerating feelings of my life... I recall shouting out the words "free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, I'm free at last"...that was in 1987.

I think this explains a lot...When a person first joined, they were handled with kid gloves...nothing but smiles, kisses and "bless you"..."would you like another cup of coffee?", "do you need a ride to the fellowship?" Until they got the hook into you, they were all nicey nice... For people who left twi at this early stage...they will usually have good things to say about twi. ...BUT, for those of us who stayed around for awhile...we started to see the inner workings, the REAL motives and attitudes. In other words...the less you knew about twi, the more positive your attitude would probably be...but ignorance should not be celebrated or counted as being an accurate evaluation. Twi was and is an insideous cult that uses and abuses people through fear tactics and wrong doctrines. oldiesman is a good example of the "mushbrain" that results when twi is through with you...we keep him around for laughs.

Maybe they would gain members if they would start encouraging "loose" sexual behavior... ...oops, they already tried that...bad idea.

I think that twi is only fulfilling legal requirements to the IRS to maintain their religious tax status... ...they have invested their "retirement" money and actually have little need for ABS or new members. They simply put on a facade of "outreach" and keep the trains running on time... The top tier of twi leaders have, long ago, abandoned any real efforts of "Christian" ministry.

Just a thought...if he's "new" in this belief system...his zeal and intolerance may not represent the attitudes of folks who have embraced this belief system for a longer period of time...just remembering how many of us were when we first got into twi... If it were me, I would consider throwing out an "olive branch" of tolerance and patience...as a mature Christian (which I believe you are :) ), let him know that you respect his right to make his own choices and simply be loving towards him...I think I would try to avoid confrontation and look for common ground... Have you ever read "Grandfather" by Tom Brown?...it's a great book demonstrating Native American spiritual beliefs...I gained a greater appreciation of their beliefs when I read that book... peace.

Any German import usually makes me happy...avoid US domestic beers...and by all means...forget that 2 beer limit hogwash...hic :blink:

Don't be so sure...I think he's at the store checking out the soap boxes. :)