GrouchoMarxJr

Allright boys and girls...you like good music?...obviously you do Ever heard of Steve Goodman? One in a million! ...make that...one in 100 million!

Bingo!...Disappointing is an understatement. If I were so inclined to steal someone else's work, I would at least put it in my own words and create "plausible deniability"...but Wierwille was apparently so smug...so arrogant...so lazy...so dishonest...that he wrote it down word for word! What does this tell us?...It tells us that he had no regard for honest research, no respect for the men that had put this together...no respect for US who "followed" him. He must have thought "These dumb kids will never know the difference". The guy deserves all the criticism that he gets...What was he doing for all those years that he claimed to be "working the word"?...My guess is that he was getting drunk and chasing skirts. Biblical research?...he didn't know the meaning of the word.

If you're glad then I'm glad...

Easter is a time to celebrate that he is risen...for Christians that is...if you are not a Christian just accept the fact that you get a day off of work and get to eat a baked ham...

Like I said all along...this was nothing more than a grandstand play from ducky...He couldn't stand the heat in the kitchen of the politics forum so he decided to pull this self centered little stunt...and of course it backfired on him...now everyone sees him for what he is. He has joined the ranks of people like jonny gringo who, through the frustration of not being able to hold his own in the forums, decided to pull a grade school stunt...as ducky said "it was all intended in fun"... ...of course, those with any perception know that ducky wasn't doing this for fun...he was doing this because he was bested and he knows it...he was put in his place and he doesn't like it...to that I say...if you can't run with the big dogs, stay home on the porch. His remarks concerning those with a college education is revealing in itself...I suspect that ducky feels inadequet trying to mix it up with those with college degrees...but you shouldn't feel that way ducky...I'm sure there are some remedial classes that you could take, that if nothing else, would help you with your self esteem...not having an education does not mean that you are inferior...perhaps an anger management class would be helpful to you. It all starts with liking and respecting yourself...and just a suggestion...next time don't wade into the deep water if you can't swim.

When you guys say "twi wouldn't let him back in" or that "they" would do this or that...aren't you really talking about Rosie? She has the final word...there is no accountability, or democratic vote in twi...Rosie IS twi! She has the final word and who here thinks that she would take the "mantle" off of herself and hand it back to Loy? ...and after being out in the real world for how many years?...do you think he even WANTS to come back? He's probably got his own little bunch of groupies and getting laid regularly...At least Lynn and other former twi leaders had enough balls to start another group...why hasn't he? Simple...he's a coward and a punk.

I think he should come back as one of those nasty little bugs that lives on the bottom of a septic tank and feeds on ....well, you know.

That's how we all understood it Lone Wolf...make no mistake, Wierwille was not stupid...he conned thousands of people for a long time. When you take into consideration his personality and his obsessive desire to be the "man of God" it becomes easier to see his motivations for pulling this scam... ...and it was a scam. He was an extremely insecure man and craved the attention and the adoration of his followers. From all accounts he was an immoral man, a drunk, a womanizer and a liar...snow on the gas pumps?...he copied WORD FOR WORD other people's books...if you or I did that in school we would be expelled.

Apparently he didn't have a very good "plan" for occular cancer.

Maybe it's time for a trip to the free clinic?

When the lawsuit was in full swing, Martindale resigned as president and it was announced that he would continue with twi in a different capacity...shortly thereafter, it was announced that Martindale was no longer involved with twi in any capacity. Twi reported that they had "imposed sanctions" against lcm which stripped him of being clergy, dropped him from the way corps, removed him from staff, put him on spiritual probation, and disallowed him from living at twi hdqrts...It is my OPINION (seeing that all the details of the settlement were never publically disclosed) that the actions taken against lcm were a part of that settlement. Perhaps someone here with a better knowledge of this than me can eleborate...

A defrocked minister?...a sexual predator?...a loud mouthed disgrace? I think lcm is gone for good...who would want him back? Besides, I think part of the Allen lawsuit forbids this from happening.

Welcome!...There are no strangers at the GreaseSpot Cafe, only friends we haven't met yet...make yourself at home.

They called her Rosie the sinner When she took Loy's gal out to dinner At a quarter to nine They began to dine At a quarter past ten, it was in her.

Bad things that VPW did?... ...this thread has the potential to set a new record for the number of posts in one thread.

Good things that VPW did for the Way Ministry?... ...He made his organization a lot of money. Maybe the real question that should be asked is what good things did VPW do for the body of Christ?...

In the 20 years since I have left twi (involved for 13 years), I have pondered this question numerous times... I have honestly looked at both sides and have discovered that equally intelligent people can defend their positions with both scripture and logic... The question that I pose is this...Does God favor those who are intelligent enough to figure it out versus those who are not? I thought that the way to salvation was supposed to be simple that even a fool wouldn't err. So what is it?...Those with the intelligence and know-how, who can study the scriptures properly, are on their way to heaven and those of us who are too dumb to figure it our are on the way to hell? Is that what life is all about?... What about the genetically disadvantaged?...sorry pal, God doesn't like stupid people so you miss the boat? Do all the Forest Gumps of the world lose out? ...and what about all the smart folks who drew the wrong conclusions?...it doesn't matter that you loved people and lived honestly and believed in God?...sorry Ajax, you read the wrong book or belonged to the wrong denomination...it's fire and brimstone for you. Is the doctrine of the trinity the axis that salvation pivots on? It seems that there are certain things in this life that are beyond our control...Sometimes I think that we get hung up on things that are not as important as we think they are...If we accept the lord Jesus and live our lives honestly and we extend our hearts to help others and to love others...I think we have done something godly...salvation is by God's grace and it's His call...God looks on the heart. Personally, I stopped trying to figure out the details of controversial biblical doctrines and simply live my life the best that I can.

Another wierwille apologist?...I thought they all drank the koolaid and died...no wait!...that was Jim Jones. Sometimes I get my cult leaders confused.

Ramona...Isn't this the woman who was acting as a female pimp and getting married women into the sack with lcm? I'm sure she must be a really sweet person once you get to know her...but she might want to leave the "pimp" part off of any future resumes she fills out...and hope that they don't check out the court records...

His brilliance?... I guess it takes one to know one...by the way, welcome back jonny...or is it papa gee?...

Poor ductape...First he attacks Bumpy in the politics forum and then has his feeling hurt when I call BS on him...If you can't handle criticism, then don't give it out to others. This is nothing more than a grandstand play...When it comes to these various forums, ESPECIALLY the politics forum...if you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen...as mentioned earlier, this is not "Survivor" where we vote you off the island and it's not "Momentus" where we kick you out of the lifeboat and it's certainly not twi where we M&A you... Make up your own mind and quit crying... Do you have any idea how many times that I have been attacked in the politics forum?... Perhaps you should be like a real duck and just let it roll off your back...

Maybe you should call the router rooter man?

Lone Wolf...I suppose the question that many of us have is whether or not they are really sincere in their goals of Christian service...or if they are merely trying to develope an institution that places them in a position to feed their egos and "tap into" the financial benefits afforded them... If someone feels "spiritually inclined" to share their biblical insight...fine, but personally, I've had a belly full of those who are looking to control the lives of their followers...and I have seen CES do this...firsthand. Why is it that many of these former twi "leaders" always have a "mission" from God that places THEM on the stage and in the spotlight?...

The excitement of word over the world from the mid seventies is over. As has been mentioned, the charismatic leaders are gone and they are left with a dull and boring Rosie... In my wildest imagination, I can't understand what could possibly draw and hold a person to twi today. They are less than a shadow of what they once were. I think that Rosie is simply maintaining the legal necessities to keep their tax exempt status with the IRS as a religious organization...they are financially secure in terms of their own retirement and present lifestyle...and are probably content with maintaining an organizational front. They have enough history behind them and enough doctrinal publications and classes to keep the fires burning for a long time to come...they are no longer an active evangelical ministry...they are a preservation society...with the sole purpose of maintaining their existance for their own self serving purposes. The future?...When Rosie finally retires ( or croaks), there will be a power struggle and another bunch of "administrators" and pencil pushers will arise and latch on to the "twi gravy train" that is fueled by the ABS of years gone by and the investments made of that money... ...it's become an institution of self perpetuating mediocrity that feeds off the weak and bullies the naive.

Let's put it this way...There are many many people (some of them here at GS), who were there and saw what they saw...and there's a general consensus that Rosie and Donna are gay lovers. If you look at one or two accounts, you might be able to dismiss it...but if you take ALL the accounts and put them together, a definite picture comes together...is it true?...I believe it is. It fits within the context of the sexual "climate" that has been underlying in twi for years and years... One of the very top leaders of twi from one of the very early corps told me personally that Donna had admitted to him that she was gay...he had no reason to lie to me. ...and whenever I look at Rosie, my "gaydar" starts red lining.