GrouchoMarxJr

...I think it's illuminating to examine HOW and WHY these group weddings began in the first place... I am of the opinion that Wierwille used this occasion to make a public demonstration of the "success" of his ministry...it was large and it was visible...and it drew attention to the fact that all those getting married were doing so under the umbrella that he provided. I also believe that he was copying the Moonies who did it first...only theirs was much larger.

Dooj...Why not post it here for all to read?... ..I have noticed over a long period of time that oldiesman has a tendency to downplay the testamonies of twi victims...and to defend twi. I think he fails to understand the dynamics of "groupthink" and other psychological factors that influence a person when they become involved with a cult... During my time with twi, I found myself doing things that I disagreed with and that I thought were wrong...why?...because when you get "swept away" by a religious cult, the tendency is to think that you must be wrong to disagree with your teachers, leaders, and those in whom you look towards for guidance...to disagree oftentimes brings feelings of guilt upon yourself... Wierwille was a middle aged man who was held in the highest esteem and considered to be the "man of God"...his followers were young people who were seeking answers and were submissive to him and defered to his judgements... ...what I just stated is nothing new here...it's been stated before...however, there have been certain people who dismiss this line of reasoning (oldiesman) and have asserted that there are no victims because people agreed to follow Wierwille...this is a cold calculated approach to logic which does not take into account the dynamics of the situation and displays an opinion that is void of understanding human nature and the relationships between teacher and student...especially in a religious setting.

Right on Rick!...You are correct, not every person who went into the waycorps was a nasty person...but a LOT of them became nasty people as a result of their waycorps training....and I WAS in the waycorp...during my time in residence at Emporia and Rome city, I continually had to fight within my own mind not to abandon my "laid back" personality, my tendencies to treat people kindly with gentleness and respect...and to hold onto my individuality (especially when it came to HOW I treated others)... The waycorps trained people to feel smugly superior, to be mean spirited and to treat others disrespectfully...and that's my opinion. Those who refused to submit to the corp's "nazi" approach to Christian service, never rose very high within the ranks of the waytree.

There's a huge difference between bowing down to Susan B. Anthony and seeking to "catch a break" for men in the workplace. I am aware that there are some women who are full of hate, bitterness and are "militant" in their views...but they are a minority and for you to point out the "chauvenism of women" to justify your position is faulty at best...you are rationalizing your position. The fact remains, men do not need to "catch a break" in the workplace.

Obviously, you are taking my words PERSONALLY...I never mentioned your names in my post (that you quoted)...I responded in a generic way with principles that apply to ALL marriages...the subject was dealing with the idea of the man being the "head" of the household versus equal authority...First you state your opinion and use yourself as an example...and then you get upset when someone disagrees with you...I have no interest in sticking my nose in your marriage and I would suggest that in the future, if you do not want opposing views, then refrain from stating your own.

My congrats to you both!...Glad you are having such a wonderful time...you deserve it my friend. My thoughts at this time...Our world is a better place because of your union...Two wonderful people, united in marriage, full of integrity, love and honor...a shining example! God bless you both.

You're joking...right? No, I don't think you are joking and that's very sad. Look...The history and traditions of our society and culture have always favored the men in the workplace. To this day, there are women who do equal work for less pay (the employer simply gives her a different "job title")...Are you oblivious to the history of "women's sufferage" and the women's rights movement?...Do you not realize that women have always held the subservient role in the work place (go make the coffee), and have very often been viewed as sex objects in the workplace? ..and you are looking for evidence of men "catching a break"?...You consistantly display an underlying chauvinistic attitude in your posts and I assume that you believe what you say. Women have made some strides in our society (even as some minorities have), but there's a long way to go. All people should be treated with respect in the workplace but when one group (in this context, women), have a long history of being treated disrespectfully and unequally, some compensation is due. I don't see where the male gender needs any special provisions to gain respect and equal footing in the workplace...women do. Your selfish attitude is a part of the problem and you offer nothing towards the solution of gaining equality and respect in the work place. ...and this post is from a man.

WOW!...That's excellant! I mean...really excellant!!! You must be proud.

Happy birthday to a guy who is old enough to be a member of AARP but too young to collect social security...

nandon...You make some valid points. Although comparing two evils (racism and steroids) does not justify either... As far as steroid use goes, it against the rules...and that makes it wrong. If they can keep Pete Rose out of the hall of fame for what he did, I think that Barry Bonds should be banned from baseball... In the Olympics, medals are forfeited...if they find out that they were on steroids...

Does this mean that in 5 years we will be going to "blackhole parties"?... ...I want to be at the one where ZZ Top is playing...they rock!

Me?...I cut the souls off my shoes, sit in a tree and play the flute...

Were you disapointed or did you just go out and buy a wig?

Actually, I'm not really interested in remembering what any of Wierwille's flunkies had to say. (As if Walter Cummins saying it adds credibity)...scheesh! ...and although I agree that there are benefits that Christians enjoy in this life, we would probably disagree as to what they are...I ditched my "waybrain" a looooooooooong time ago.

I hope it wasn't a group honeymoon as well...

You were 22 years old THEN...but the underlying theme of your "sexual conquests" that you constantly (for some reason) love to "share" with all of us, are posted NOW... I almost sound like a "jealous man"? Jealous of a guy who posts like he's 19 years old?...It's just that I expected more maturity from a guy who's 50......but you honestly seem to be clueless as to how this comes across. As far as me getting "a certain kind of job"...were you going to offer me Honalee's phone number?...No thanks, I like more mature women.

I agree with Oak...to use the term "tie breaker" implies that that the two people refused to compromise and come to a mutual agreement...I think it works better when two people can negotiate and agree than it does when one person rules over the other...

There he goes again...Jonny the ladies man...scheeesh! MUST YOU always find occassion to talk about your sexual conquests?...it really gets old.

Wow!...How did you draw that conclusion from what I said?...The context is women being subservient to their husbands... You not only jumped to some faulty conclusions, your logic catapulted you across an infinitely wide chasm! Obviously, you are of the "Wierwille school" of "there's a purpose for every word He says, where He says it, how He says it and why He says it"...sorry, but I don't buy into the bible (as it's written) being God's will verbatim. I've stated this before...the bible was written during a time when people thought differently than we do today...different culture, different norms...that does not detract from the message of the risen Christ and our salvation...to each his own.

I met him many years ago...wasn't impressed.

To some it matters...to some it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter to you, feel free to not comment on it... I started this thread because Mr. Spiritual took exception to my remarks about Barry on another thread...and he's yet to come to the defense of his hero...just goes to show you...

...And he's about to break Hank Aaron's record...HANK AARON!!!...it breaks my heart to see such a great record being broke by a guy who did it on self enhancing drugs...

It not only has a bridge, but it has a bridge that will lead you to the promised land of His prevailing wurd...and it's very reasonably priced.

It's quite reasonable...make me an offer.

Let us know Hammer...I'm interested to find out...I mean, a lot of people use the title "DR.": Dr. Doom Dr. Strangelove Dr. J Dr. Feelgood Dr. Wierwille Dr. Death (who actually IS a real doctor) Dr. Sudo (sorry, had to throw that one in ) Dr. Pepper... ...I mean, c'mon, talk is cheap.