GrouchoMarxJr

Seriously though...Anyone who wants to post about their positive experiences in twi is free to do so, always has been. Nobody can stop you from doing this...if you feel that way, then by all means, post about it...BUT, expect criticism...for surely it will come. Why?...simple. The GreaseSpot is primarily set up to be an expose of twi's lies and manipulations and harm they did to other people. There are many here who are interested in seeing the abuse of people, that are currently still in twi, come to a stop. I personally would not mind seeing twi dissolve as an entity...Therefore, I focus on the goal...to expose them...to let other people know how manipulative and abusive this cult is. I was in twi for 13 years and of course I can remember positive experiences that I had in twi...one of them was that I met some really fine people...most of the rank and file were sincere godly people...but romanticizing about the good times does little to further my goal of exposing this dangerous cult...and that's why I'm here. Everyone has their own reason why they are here...personally, I feel that my attitude fits with the "mission statement" of this website...so to speak. This place exists primarily to expose the abuse of twi...and many of us feel strongly about contributing to that flow...not to be "negative"...but to provide a resource for others to learn of the dangers...it's to help people. Many newcomers arrive here to discover the "other side of the coin"...and many have been delivered from guilt and confusion and gone through the process of recovery, due in part to the information they learned here at the GreaseSpot....and I'm talking about the abuse, the manipulation, the uncaring attitudes, the sexual debauchery, the wrong doctrines, the damaging programs. People who were or are involved with twi deserve to know the truth... If people want to relate their positive experiences, romaticize about the good old days and emphasis the "good" in twi...go for it, but that's not why I'm here.

Jenny lingo???...Dare we ask what you wore to the bar?...

I thinks it's worth mentioning that being taught something...and actually doing it, are two different things. Efficiency comes with experience and practice. Oftentimes people were given instructions and then "shoved off the cliff" (figratively and literally). When it come to rock climbing and repelling, an individual should have had extensive pratice before endeavoring to do what twi demanded of them. Lead was not optional...if they called your name, you went. ...and yes, I recall numerous injuries. I remember some guy with a cast on his leg, another who broke his hand...people who returned were scraped up and oftentimes limping...and they were usually quite upbeat...I think they were thrilled that it was over!

The reocurring theme that was underlying to all of twi's indoctrination..."believing equals receiving"...the catch 22. Failure means that you didn't believe, it was YOUR fault...if "nothing went wrong", then you are one of us, you are a "believer". Halleleujah brother!!! :wacko: What a tremendous working tool...think about it...if what we teach, fails to deliver, it was YOUR fault. Lead was the extreme application of this sinister doctrine...the doctrine which promulgated the concept of "power of the mind". It is up to YOU to provoke and prod the Almighty into action...His right hand of blessing has been handcuffed until YOU allow Him to take off the handcuffs...and it's the "power in your mind" that is the catalyst to this spiritual unleashing. Of course it doesn't work...we don't get to pick and choose with our "believing power"...that's unbiblical and utter nonsense...but yet, twi put people's lives at risk based on this cockamamie idea....and if you fell to your death or got raped in a car...it was YOUR fault, our hands are clean...and that's the way it worked. Cold, calculated, mechanical, and heartless. No compassion, no godly sorrow, no love...it was a formula. So...if you had a good time on "lead"....good for you...you may think that you worked the magic formula of "believing" and therefore the Almighty reached down and touched you in a wonderful way...and those who died or were hurt...it was their own fault...BUT please excuse those of us who do not believe in your magic formula...who view those who were hurt with compassion and with anger towards those who truly failed, who allowed these things to happen. As far as you being "blessed" with your experience...I think more of it, as you being LUCKY!!!

Just think of the benefits...no lying, no cheating, they never ask for money, they're always at home waiting for you, they never nag, they never complain, they never have a "headache", you don't have to meet their family, you can put different colored wigs on them and call them by different names, and best of all... ...they never tie up the computer!

I agree that the top people knew it was a sham...but I also believe that the vast majority of the rank and file were sincere Christians who wanted to do the right thing. I think that the reason Wierwille wanted a waycorp was to indoctrinate enough people who would be dedicated to making money for the organization. Volunteers didn't cut it...he needed people who were totally sold out to his cause and wouldn't waver.

In hindsight, I believe that the public persona that Wierwille displayed, was a facade. When the curtain went down, he was a drunk and a womanizer with little or no regard for other people. In that sense, he was a phoney. He was able to pull it off because of his years as a minister, his charismatic personality, and his background in studying homeletics...he also studied other people and copied their style. In my opinion, his priorities were always self serving. During my time in twi, I was always able to seperate twi from God. I enjoyed the teachings but never felt that twi "owned" them or had any special monopoly on truth. I was always bothered at how they seperated themselves from the rest of the body of Christ and I always kept my options open in terms of my allegience to twi...I held back. Because of this, I didn't buy into their guilt trips or fear tactics as much as other around me did...while in the corps, I usually kept my thoughts to myself. I went into the corps with the goal of completing 4 years of training...that was it. I had no aspirations of taking assignments or climbing the way tree. When lcm would go into one of his face melting rants, I felt somewhat detached and was only upset because of how it effected those around me. I thought he was a jerk. ...and yes, here at GreaseSpot we see a wide variety of belief systems. People have left the group think mentality of twi and have found their own ways in life. There is no consensus here. We all share the common experience of twi and we come here for various reasons. I am thankful to God for the things in my life that He has shown me...I am NOT thankful to Mr. Wierwille for his class that was full of destructive errors (that he stole from others for his own gain)...I have no guilt trips concerning my time with twi...and I highly encourage others to eliminate their own (if they have any) by whatever means works for you...they were a cult and not worthy of doing that to you.

...and because of your celebrations, the need arises to post the negatives...otherwise people would not see the complete picture. ...and you wouldn't want people to have a lopsided view that is not accurate would you? Jonny...Maybe you would like to write a letter to the family of the person who died on "lead" and tell THEM what a great program it was... Personally, I think that when a twi program kills someone, it diminishes the "good time" that someone else may have had in that program...but that's just me.

From my point of view...LEAD, the way it was operated, was both reckless and stupid. Much of this experience was based on the erroneous idea that "believing equals receiving"...it doesn't. this was yet another false doctrine of twi. They figured that if a person "believed", then they would successfully complete the Lead experience...The hitchhiking part was not only dangerous but it was also illegal. In my opinion, lead should have been an option for people...some folks just weren't cut out for that experience.

During my time in twi, I always observed the two joint limit...

I think that skyrider's depiction of corps training is right on the money. Looking back, I think that it was a microcosm of futility and despair. Herding people in and out of buildings, sleep deprivation, screaming at people, mundane activities with very little, if any, real learning. The vast majority of "classes" were mostly reviews of what we had learned before entering the corps...along with such spiritually enlightening subjects as "jet style packing", grade school spelling classes and teaching men how to shave properly. The main goal of corps training was to indoctrinate into a mind numbing obedience of religious servitude...it was like a sinister form of toilet training.

Unlike oldies, I believe that the majority of what was taught in pfal was wrong... However, as a Christian, I do believe in "eventual" eternal life and I believe that Jesus was the son of God and not God...like Catcup, I learned these things before I ever heard of twi. As far as being "thankful" to Mr. Wierwille...I'm afraid that the severe damage that he inflicted on so many people in his life overshadows any thoughts of "thankfulness" on my part...

Gosh Jonny, it seems that my sense of humor alludes you...but in regards to pot, you seem to have a much greater knowledge of it than I do...Because of it's prevalence in our society, I started this thread out of curiosity...Although I have nothing againt pot, smoking it is not on my agenda...haven't smoked any in a LONG time...I don't listen to Led Zeppilin anymore, I don't have long hair and I stopped going to rock concerts years and years ago...If calling me a "druggie" gives you a certain sense of satisfaction, then I won't rain on your parade...but for the record, ( and I hate to disapoint you)... my "drug" of choice is a cold beer every now and then... :)

I can't disagree with what you say...The young people who joined twi were sincere and hopeful and loving and really believed in what they were doing...I was one of them. I think it was people like Jimmy Doop and Steve Heefner that truly had great Christian ministries and Wierwille stepped in and hijacked it all...first he stole the class and then he stole the people from other ministries...he was a thief who sought his own glory...and in the process, ruined a lot of people's lives....

...Bottom feeder is right...this guy was/is a total sociopath who was constantly trying to bed down "waygirls" even though he was married to H*l*n...every interaction he had with people was always to the end of how it would advance his position or give himself some kind of "gratification"...it absolutely amazes me how Wierwille decided to give this guy a ticket to the "back room" where the elite hung out, the demons swung from the chandaliers and the drambuie flowed... ...and he was SOOOOOOOOO dumb!...my gawd, I hate to sit here and slam the guy...no, that's not true...actually I don't mind slamming him a bit...remember the "Beverly Hillbillies"?...he was like Jethro's evil twin brother...

Dooj...You're much too kind...K*n S*dd*th was a grade A arsehole...he was born that way and twi only honed his inbred skills. I recall watching him TRY to lead songs and TRY to teach...he was a buffoon if there ever was one... ...He is the proof that Wierwiile pushed certain people to the top and showed favoritism...this guy had NO leadership ability and if you looked in the dictionary under "pond scum", his picture was there...just remembering his face creeps me out...the guy proved himself to be a total lowlife... ...and I'm in a good mood or I would really tell you what I think about him.

You druggies?...Hopefully you're not assigning that label to me...pond scum was bad enough. Be that as it may...I do realize that everything is more expensive up there in the former Russian terrority that you reside in. You claim it's the 49th state?...got any proof of that?...I thought you were still a territory...

Holy zig zags Batman!...If they're paying THAT much, they ARE losers... In Texas a quarter ounce costs $20 dollars and in Ohio a quarter ounce costs $40...at least that's what I've been told. Personally, I think that when the consequences of getting caught with it are more harmful to a person than the actual substance is...there is something terribly wrong. Oh yeah...according to recent studies, people who smoke pot have no worse "short term memory loss" than people who do not smoke it...(except of course, when they are under the influence of it)...

I agree that it was really good music but consider going back?...not in a million years. I was there during the early days when Pressed Down, Good Seed and others really played some excellant music and inspired a lot of people...and yes, Catcup hit the nail on the head...behind the great music and the inspired hearts of a lot of young people stood the egotistical Wierwille and Martindale... I don't believe that there ever were any "good old days"...it's a myth that has been romanticized upon. The foundation was built upon sand from the very beginning when Vic saw the snow on the gaspumps. ...What we see today is the fruit that grew from that original tree...those who were filled with the spirit of God and lived honestly and with love have departed for greener pastures...

I would ask them their definition of friendship I would ask them what makes them cry I would ask them what is the measure of a man or a woman I would ask them to express the most joyous occasion of their lives and the most painful occasion of their lives I would ask them what they think about God I would ask them how they would want to be remembered

Catcup...Thanks for sharing your perspective on the group wedding. They ALWAYS bothered me and your detailed description sheds some light on the feelings that I have always had about them. I know that in many cases, the families of those getting married were shunned and pushed to the side. Traditionally, the mother of the bride has always been very involved with her daughter's wedding and it is supposed to be a very personal time for the family. Wierwille hi-jacked this event away from the family and took control of yet another aspect of his cult member's life. Harmony in the home?...another lie on that damned green card. PS...When I got married, it was the first wedding ever at camp Gunnison (we were the only couple)...Wierwille and his wife attended as a guest but the ceremony was done by D*ve Stan***e....at the recption ( a private location about 10 miles from Gunnison), I was informed (by Stan***e) that my bride and I were to invite Wierwille and his wife to join us at the "head table", that consisted of 4 chairs...family mambers from both sides were excluded from joining us. I reluctantly agreed, much to my regret. Wierwille always found a way to make himself the center of attention.

Perhaps oldiesman would be willing to come forth and clarify his position on this matter? Everyone is talking about his previous posts, his attitudes, his opinion on "victims" of twi...it's only fair that HE weigh in on this subject... ...C'mon oldiesman...tell us what you think about the girls that Wierwille dragged into the back of the motorcoach Were they victims or willing participants?

You got a plan?

I will not cheer him from my seat I will not cheer him on my feet I will not cheer him in a bar I will not cheer him from afar I will not cheer him for his slam I will not cheer him, Sam I am.