GrouchoMarxJr

...As for all you God rejecters...you're all gonna burn in hell! I mean, how could a guy like Garth even exist without a God to allow it?...and as for Sudo...he's living proof that God exists!...Nobody, and I mean nobody would ever be able to stick a drill in your mouth without a God to protect them from retribution.

Cowgirl...maybe you DO get it. That's why I pick on Jonny all the time...his imagined macho image of himself is constantly projected into his posts...On one hand, he tries to come across as a devout Christian...but on the other hand, his preoccupation with his sexual prowess is constantly showing itself....usually guys that can't "rise to the occasion" talk this way...trying to compensate for his lack of "vigor" through his imagined cyber personality....that's my guess.

Is it any wonder that Cornfield Vic selected this sexual deviant to become the president of twi?...Considering his background, perhaps Martindale would have done better for himself had he found a job as a ticket taker at an adult bookstore that featured "private booths"...he would have been in his element.

You might have better luck if you called them up and asked them if they had prince Albert in a can... ...Welcome to GreaseSpot!...Come on in and sit a spell...the coffee's lousy but the seats are comfortable.

No question about it...my life, since I left twi (1987) has been so much better than the time I wasted in twi... ...it's better in every regard.

I highly encourage independant thought...my conclusions are different but that's ok... :)

THis "spiritual anger" was always a tool that was used to manipulate and control...Once rev so and so started yelling, everybody sat on their hands and accepted the "lesson" that was being given. It was a trick they had learned from Vic the flim flam man...it's the idea that if "you've already got them eating out of the palm of your hand, just get angry and see what happens!"... Spiritual understanding?...This was nothing more than a trigger word to let you know that you were a schmuck and the other guy was about to tell you how the cow chewed the cabbage. It was the "great excuse" phrase that evaded logic and defied common sense. Whatever happened, someone, somewhere was more spiritual than you and they were more than glad to dispense their spiritual credentials (name tag) in order to take control. Bottom line...only the truly spiritual ones are able to handle the money properly.

The ones who talk about it the most, are usually the ones who can't "rise to the occasion"...

My wow year was in 1976 in Chicago...2 guys and 2 girls...we were sent to New town, in north Chicago, a neighborhood filled with bars, clubs, deli , art galleries, parks (Lincoln park)...and a lot of street wise people... My wow brother and I had a remodeling business and made about $1000 a week between the two of us working 20 hours a week...my wow sisters were both bringing home good paychecks also...We had a beautiful 4 bedroom apartment on Clark street two miles from where the Cubs played... We ran four classes and made twi money...our coordinator was a 6th corps girl...at the end of our year we had saved so much money that we paid for Mel's tuition in the college division, I got a new car and my wow sisters each took their share in cash... We also donated money to the other wow families in our wow branch...some of them didn't fare quite as well as we did...

I have no qualms about selling twi crap to the highest bidder...The books are nothing by themselves...the "brainwashing" in twi occured through programs that followed standard conditioning techniques...especially, the corps training. The books are poorly written and really offer the same things that you can find in a million other "self help" books. I suspect that the people buying them are old "waybrainers" who still stalk our communities with glassy eyes and ALREADY believe all the crap that's in those books...sure pal, fork over the money, they're all yours...at least there's SOMETHING to salvage out of this "investment"...

There are a lot of really good local churches all over the country....I don't recomend "mega churches"...I prefer smaller independant churches, not answerable to some "corporate denominational board of directors", that strive towards providing programs that focus on a variety of different needs...including youth programs... ...don't be overly concerned with doctrinal differences, look for the heart...look for the love and the fruit...and don't confuse it with religious piety. There are great folks in whom the Lord works in a lot of different ways. Keep your mind open to different viewpoints. If you find a church that you are considering, I would check it out myself first before I take the kids...ask questions about what they do...not so much about what they believe...you can always find a mission statement on some pamphlet to consider their doctrinal views...I think it's healthy when kids interact together within a Christian setting... ...and who knows, you might even find some adults that you like. ;)

Oh Gawd, I almost wet myself...he DID sound like Pogo, didn't he? There it is!...Pogo! Maybe that should be Jonny's new nickname...

That's always been one of my problems...my old fashioned debating techniques. :( busted again. I don't know Bump...maybe it's just me but when I look at the overall picture, I start seeing a pattern of a guy that was playing it for all it was worth...You don't actually defend the old poobah, do you?

Well Bump...that's the problem. Very few people were aware that Wierwille and his henchmen were drugging young girls and sexually molesting them, or that he stole the work of other people and put his name on it...had I known these things, I would have left immediately...that's why I said in an earlier post that he lied in God's name. Yes, I am guilty of putting my trust in this man...and in return for that trust, I was rewarded by deceit and evil. So what is it?...We once again blame the victims of twi for their own abuse?...this seems to be a reoccuring theme here. That young girl had freedom of will when she entered the motorcoach?...I suppose that if a doctor told you that you had a tumor and he needed $50,000 to remove it to save your life and if you found out he was lying to get your money...that would be YOUR fault because you have freedom of will?...sorry, I don't buy it.

Notice how when people expose the errors, the sexual abuse and the deceit, most, if not all the time the Wierwille apologists do not address those issues but only what "blessed" them? Rather than address the issues, they attack the person who points them out, calling them "negative"

It is MY impression that some claim to be "blessed" at what is alleged to have taken place and are determined to defend their "father in the word" by attacking those who speak out against him.

Didn't He create us unto good works?

Well...You state "...all the good that was there", as if this were a fact. Am I not entitled to believe that there was no good there?...or not enough that warrants mentioning it?...

Suda...After reading many of your posts, I have concluded that you are an honest, caring individual...you make many fine points and your motives are honorable...I think you're a very nice person. That being said...it's not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings or to chase anyone away...but on the other hand, I can't in good conscience, compromise what I believe or the reasons that I post here. I feel passionate about exposing twi as the cult they are...who mangled God's word and manipulated people...and hurt many in the process... ...So what would you have me do? Hold back my opinions so that I don't offend those who disagree with me?...minimalize the damage done to people's lives so that those who still embrace pfal as being valuable can continue to do so without being challenged?...Play nicey nice with those who defend a man that I detest? The very nature of this website is volatile...and sometimes harsh. We are dealing with a very personal subject here. I think that to engage in honest debate, one must develope thick skin...I think that Wierwille lied in God's name and crushed a lot of people in the process...I simply cannot soft soap my opinion on that for the sake of civility and "getting along" with people....each person has their own reason for being here...I don't hang out in the chat room to make friends and I've never attended any of the weinee roasts...I come here to state my opinions of a cult that stole 13 years of my life and hurt many people that I care about...I realize that I am blunt and oftentimes caustic in my remarks...I am hopeful that you will not take it personal...like I said...I think you're a nice person and I like you...and I think that you are a valuble member of the GreaseSpot community. I'm not here to eliminate opposing views...just to state my own....peace.

Maybe you should start a list...

The secret of a holy life?...by Veepee Cornhusker?... How about...The secret of a living in peace by Adolph Hitler?...or maybe, The secret of successful brain surgery by Moe Howard?...or maybe The secret of a long life by Jack Kevorkian... This is a comedy thread, isn't it?

Seperate the sin from the sinner?... ;) Actually, it's against the rules of GreaseSpot to call people names...WHAT they say is fair game...seems like a simple concept to me...and I've never called anyone a twit. There is a huge difference between calling someone stupid and claiming that what they said is stupid... For example...if I say Larry is an idiot (which I would never say), I have made a personal attack and have broken the rules of this forum...but if I say "Larry's comments were idiotic", I have not broken the rules...Kapeesh?

Of course there IS a difference between attacking another Christian and pointing out the wolves in sheep's clothing... ...and there's also a difference between attacking a person and attacking what a person says and does... right?

Larry...We all have different personalities and different ways of communicating. There are plenty of folks here who are tenderhearted, ready to hold someone's hand and tell them things gently... and much more diplomatic than I am... My posts are geared more towards folks who need a "more direct" approach to the bottom line...there's plenty of people who come here knowing that twi did them wrong but don't have sufficient information to articulate why... ...Usually, if they come here defending twi, they are here to "set us straight"...they are not looking for answers in my opinion...and they leave with tomato dripping from their chins...

No back peddling act here...This ISN'T a Christian website...that's stating fact. My pointing out where "opening a bible" is appropriate and welcomed is not telling them what to do, it's merely giving them advice...they are not required to follow it.