GrouchoMarxJr

I suppose what sticks in my craw is that John Lynn has gone to great lengths to present himself as a "spiritual populist"...a blue collar itinernant minister...ready to sit down and talk to anyone. Alright already!...Here we are waiting with bated breath. He elbowed his way in here, posting all this drama and then splits without another word... ...C'mon John, tell us the rest of the story...it's only fair.

Naw...I got no stories. Those guys never did anything to me personally. I just think they ought to come back and finish what they started here...all things considered, it seems only right to me.

Sitting at the master's feet...never happened by the time I entered the 10th corps. We were cattle being herded from one building to another. Taking classes that we all had taken before, sitting in "study hall" for hours after hour, providing them 4 hours a day of free labor at our assigned jobs...Hunger and exhaustion were the order of the day. The idea was to break down the person and make them glassy eyed and obedient. It was a classic example of "bait and switch"...It was not what they had made it out to be...it was bogus in my opinion...a waste of my time.

I have to admire DWBH's tenacity...He continues to ask for a reasonable reply from these guys...I have to say, I'm not holding my breath waiting... ...I think there's a lot of folks who are willing to dialogue when it' in their interest. Allow me to join in with DWBH'c appeal for these guys to be responsible for their own words...their own code of conduct. C'mon John...we want a response from you. Is that too much to ask?

In other words...The cornfield huckster was nobody's fool...He played everyone around him...and he did it well. I've always maintained the perspective that Wierwille's manipulation of people was masterful and worthy of a movie staring Anthony Hopkins...Steve Buscemi will play Howard Allen... He was a monster...the "werd" he taught was secondary to the blind obedience that he demanded from his minions. What a vulnerable position to be in...empty headed and waiting for Vic to fill it up for you...

I suppose that if I weren't ready to "deal with it", then I wouldn't be trying to recruit people and sell my books in their "hang out" to begin with...but then again, I'm not afraid of honest confrontation. The path of least resistance is to find a place where people will smile and say "bless you" rather than to hold you accountable for your own words and actions. I never asked John Lynn to air his dirty laudry at the GreaseSpot cafe...that was HIS choice... When he was trying to sell his wares here, we didn't have our heads up our azzes...we were potential "clients"...but now that we are holding him accountable for his own words, we have our heads up our azzes...interesting. anotherDan...why is it that you come across as being pious to me?

Well...I see that John Lynn (although he can't be bothered to visit us here), has found time to make his grand appearance at the "waycorps forum"...according to what he said there, you would never know that there had been any problems with CES. ...it must be nice to be a "spiritual celebrity"

I read the posts of folks who have just recently left twi and are going through the healing process...and that's a good thing. It validates the reason why many of us are still here. To share our perspective and reveal facts that twi has kept in their "lock box". Venting is a catharsis that helps people to "get over it"...to move on and begin living life without the mental burdens placed on them by a cult. As for me...I "got over it" a long long time ago. It stopped hurting years and years ago...What many do not understand is that there are many of us "old timers" who post here that are no longer in "recovery"...we are no longer dealing with the pain and the disapointment. We post here to help other people....and because we like the coffee. :) Why do we sound so bitter?...Maybe that's just your "take" on it...I'm really not bitter, I just speak the truth without mincing my words. People shouldn't confuse fatual information being imparted with "emotional hurt"...oftentimes, they read that into it when it's not there...

This discussion is about YOUR character assassination of "all men". ...and get this, if any men disagree with oldies concerning their own sexual proclivities, they must be lying or gay...that means that oldies knows what's going on inside your head better than you do... You are one sick puppy. ...oldies...how do you define "young women"? 21?...18?...14?...12? They have words for people like that...and "normal" is not one of them.

...and when did you become the spokesman for "all men"? If you really believe your own words, I would suggest that you are mentally ill.

The way I see it, the nametags were very important...How else would you have known the spiritual level of understanding that a person had? ...they made things easy. One glance at the nametag and you instantly knew who you were to obey and who was subservient to you. The nametags justified promotions within the power structure. It became clear that God's voice was dispensed to those who had advanced class nametags and were well versed in the "cookie jar" theory of hearing from the divine. Never mind that these nametags caused division...they provided the practical understanding within the pecking order. When wearing a waycorps name tag at an open public meeting, that name tag provided a "shortcut" to perceiving the natural leadership abilities within the person wearing it...why wait for them to demonstrate their leadership abilities (that takes time)...it was much more efficient to simply gaze at the name tag for a couple of seconds. and by golly, after paying all that money, a person deserved the right to wear it!...That little piece of plastic on your chest was your ticket to walk with confidence amoung the unwashed and unlearned.

...Am I to take your remarks seriously? After reading your posts over an extended period of time, I can only conclude that you enjoy the personal attacks and even thrive on them...else why do you set yourself up for them with your ludicrous and inciteful remarks? In my estimation, defending Vic Wierwille's sexual predatory behavior is akin to defending a child molester to a group of parents who have suffered this experience. Your insensitivity is beyond belief and your rationalization process is nearly off the charts. Within any large group of people, you will usually find someone who purposely takes an unpopular and minority view of an important issue for the purpose of drawing attention to himself...I suppose it could be compared to the class clown in elementary school...the kid who always acted up and did outlandish things to draw attention. The fact that this argument is even taking place demonstrates this...perhaps it's even on a subconscious level. I find the idea that Mr. Wierwille is even considered to be a Christian to be suspect...forget biblical comparisons and holding Vic up to biblical standards of behavior for Christian ministers...he failed to live up to secular standards of behavior. A decent married man does not have sex with other women...PERIOD. Wierwille was a selfish pig who had no regard for anyone but himself. ...end of story.

Larry...It's called common courtesy that they respond.

DWBH...I gotta say, your persistant. ...the weird thing is that these guys claimed to be our friends!...our "brothers"...have they soiled themselves so badly that they haven't the nads to even reply?

Ha ha ha ha ha...

You might be walking by the 5 senses if... ...You have the audacity to question why VP Wierwille's books are exactly, word for word, the same as other books that were written earlier by other authors...

"Don't look at the 5 senses"...Is that like "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?"

How about one for people?...Think of the time that could be saved at the work place...

Name...BS meter It will tell you who's lying and who ain't Start off with a basic lie detecting machine...hook up a special adaptor to plug into the television set...everything runs through a special modulator and into the lie detecting machine... it would be especially useful during the presidential debates... :)

Is it possible that there was no person named Victor Paul Wierwille?...That the guy on the stage was really an actor? Is it possible that oldiesman and Mike are really cartoon charactors that exist only in cyberspace? Is it possible that the roast I have in the oven is really an old shoe that just happens to smell good while cooking? Hmmm...deep things to ponder.

I can appreciate the sentiments posted by anotherDan...the failings of CES should not be the subject of rejoicing...it's not kind to put the boots to someone when they are on the ground. However, my concern is for the hundreds or maybe thousands of sincere people who have been led astray by wrong teachings fueled by the egos of a handful of mog wannabes...what about them? ...and if I recall, this forum was USED by CES leadership to make public their point of view. They invited this dialogue. Questions are being asked and they are refusing to answer...fine...that's their choice...but it's MY choice to draw conclusions based upon my own perceptions and I believe it's appropriate to hold them accountable for the "drama" that they inflicted upon their followers as well as all of us who hang out here at the cafe...who are ALSO our brothers and sisters. It's one thing to stick your nose in someone else's business and quite another thing to respond to someone who has stuck their nose in YOUR business.

"Making friends" while in twi was always about furthering the agenda of twi...and that agenda included baiting people to cough up the money for pfal. People were merchandise and we were taught to use them. Real friends don't use each other... Since leaving twi 20 years ago, I have learned a few things. I have learned that a true friend has no hidden agenda and is not trying to get something from you...when I find people like that, I walk away....

I say that God never worked with Wierwille (again, he was NOT a doctor)...I know that you are serious and that's very sad.

I'm fully aware of what I was taught by VP Cornfield (he was NOT a doctor)...he was a shister whose teachings should be hauled out to the place where the fires never cease... Mike...You begin with a different assumption than I do. Wierwille's personal failings, his lying, stealing and immoral activities disqualifies him as a legitimate teacher of God's word....the guy was drunk more often than he was sober...he was a fake.