GrouchoMarxJr

Nobody chained us to the seat...Nobody locked the door...Nobody held a gun to our head. You still don't get it, do you?...I've seen plenty of posts where people have explained it to you...what's up? You don't understand emotional and mental dependency based on a belief system? You don't understand that the chains, locked doors and guns were mental prisons?...Have you never read of Pavlov's experiments?...Don't you realize that when a person believes that someone else is speaking on God's behalf to them that they are under "undo influence"? ...that they will make decisions based on fear...against their better judgement? The fact that it's called "brainwashing" implies that you don't NEED physical restaints...that's really not a hard concept to grasp...Reading your posts, I have to wonder whether you are simply being stubborn on your position or whether you honestly don't understand what brainwashing is...

65 years?...I discovered it 38 years ago... I read an article about some studies that were done...hundreds of people, over 10 years of research...they wanted to see what the differences were between people who had done LSD and people who hadn't...both groups were exactly the same in every regard except one... ...It seems that the people who had taken LSD had a different "perspective" on life. Hmmm, whatever could they mean?

There's no doubt that Wierwille decided to make it a very "up front" issue. He knew it would be controversial and probably BECAUSE of that, he pushed it so hard...I think it was the roa 1976 when the book came out and everyone was encouraged to buy it and "master" it...(the book itself was sophmoric at best...sorta like a high school term paper)... I tend to believe that Wierwille's decision to become anti trinity was very calculated and related to his desire to seperate his group from other churches...it was his schtick...he played it like a violin and marketed the hell out of it. It created (besides revenue), an "us versus them" mentality towards other churches...which in turn, kept the sheep in the fold... The implication of course, is that Wierwille knew he was creating a cult...unless of course, he actually believed what he taught...and at this point, thats very doubtful. Wierwille never came up with anything original...he stole everything he ever claimed was his own. Where did he get his anti trinitarian views?...and when did this happen?....don't know.

Twi lived in a pretend world...a world where they pretended that God was giving them instructions...that they had special insight that no one else had... Anything that happened...that did not fit into this "perspective" was quickly swept under the rug. It was all about maintaining this bogus image...at ANY cost. Looking back, I see no Christian ethics, compassion or desire to help others...it was all about them. They cared nothing for those that they hurt...they still do not care.

I don't go to church...I didn't go to church before I was in twi and I don't go to church now...but that's just me. I don't care much for rituals. For those who DO go...more power to them. Going to church is a social event...a true Christian walk is a private and personal thing you do on your own...I having nothing against Christians gathering together for their church events...but I recognize that there IS a difference between a personal relationship with God and living vicariously through a preacher or group of people... ...If nothing else, my twi experience made me very leery of "spiritual organizations"... ...especially when they want my money.

You mean...20% of twi doctrine screwed up 80% of their followers?

Thirty years ago, I had just completed the advanced class and was in my apprentice year of the corps... ...As I look back, I am compelled to use my experience as a warning to others...a warning to steer clear of cults! The roa starting out as being a fun time and then disitingrated into a regimented display of twi's legalism and oppression. Memories of good people?...of course...but I will not rationalize my participation as being anything other than a waste of time...I didn't need the cult experience to find Christ...

Mike...Give it a rest, the "written part of PFAL" was as flawed as the verbal traditions. I'm sorry that you are unable to see that.

The only time I was ever on the motorcoach was........hmmm, come to think of it, I was never on the motorcoach. After reading my own post, I can see where I oversimplified the problem, as Wordwolf pointed out. My apologies to anyone who was offended by my insensitivity. My intentions are to see people recover from their twi experience and of course I realize that we all had different experiences and deal with different things. Some folks have more challenges than others because of what happened to them...and I support them 100%. Groucho will now stand in the corner with his nose to the wall... :(

Signs and wonders?...Naw...more like, human traits...and if you look at the back page of the menu, at the very bottom, it says "Thunder pie"...my advice is to chew slowly and savor the taste.

...and isn't it ironic that wierwille himself was never a follower. He bucked the system wherever he went. He was a maverick in his own denomination and argued with those "over him" in the hierarchy. wierwille finally decided to become the self proclaimed mog and call all the shots...Where was the chain of command in HIS life?...Who did he ever follow or listen to?...but suddenly he expects everyone to get in lockstep and march to his commands. With his phoney credentials and his stolen "research", he sets himself up as king of the cornfield...taking every shortcut he could, never proving that he could follow orders, he became the chief order giver...PATOOIE!

Some of us have so much fight left in us that we eat thunder and crap lightning... :)

C'mon George, tell us how you really feel... ...I tend to agree. I regret the whole flippin' time I wasted with that money making cult. but, but Groucho...what about the werd you learned?...oh, you mean the werd that had me giving a con man 15% on my money and pimping more suckers into the fold?...Yeah, I regret that too... A waste of time...all of it.

Recovering from cult addiction?.... ...Once you know they were wrong and abusive, you simply walk away...what's to recover from? I was involved for 13 years (10th corps), I walked away and never looked back....disapointed?...sure. Disillusioned?...sure. Slightly confused?...you betcha...but so what? Once you know they were wrong and abusive, it's cut and dried. I don't mean to slight anyone...but maybe someone can explain why it's such a problem?

...and this happened in twi? :unsure:

...Then why didn't they say it up front?... <_< ...why did they put in writing that taking assignments was optional?...They mislead at the very least...or they just out and out lied. When I entered the corps, I never assumed that serving God and being a part of twi were synonomous. The bible doesn't teach that...That is what I mean about bait and switch...they baited you with a 4 year program and switched it to a lifetime of servitude...they baited you with serving God and they switched it to serving them.... And if twi never intended it to be a 2 or 4 year program, they never should have presented it as that...they flat out lied.

...The thing is, twi still exists and is still conning people. In the old days, twi was a fast growing cult that was accumulating money, properties and followers...today, these people are merely maintaining an appearance of "Christian ministry" in order to keep their lush lifestyles intact. The numbers are small and their ability to generate revenue has diminished greatly. I think that the older people are simply coasting on the glory years (assets) of yesteryear...The young ones coming up through the ranks are the trouble makers of tomorrow... ...and twi still reads this site and these posts...they still try to steer their followers away from this site...Personally, I think it's a good idea to have different view points to consider and I enjoy contributing my own from time to time...I like the idea that there are folks in twi who may snap to their senses because of something that they read here. It would have been nice had there been a resource like this back in 1975...

What have I kept from PFAL?... ...Perhaps I can explain in it a short poem: Johnny Jump Up don't jump no more Maggie Muffins became a whore Henry Baloko blew it all While the old poop Vic had a ball.

Every moment that I spent at Emporia, I was famished. My normal food intake was cut in half and I was running 2 miles a day...besides everything else. At the end of the year, I had lost over 30 lbs. As I recall...the food really sucked.

Good point Jim...many non corps folks in twi were having a ball fellowshipping in twigs and getting together...until the corps arrived. The Youth for Hitler program was set in motion and it was quite a site to behold. Watching these stormtroopers for Christ administer their "tough love" destroyed the genuine friendships and heartfelt sharings and replaced them with ultimatums, accusations and harshness. Fear motivation became the order of the day and obligation took the place of desire...As I said in a different thread...the waycorps were the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz...

Even the concept of the corps was not original with Wierwille...E. Stanley Jones (a Wierwille favorite) wrote a book about spending time in an Ashram program entitled "Abundant Living" written, I believe in 1922. In the book, Jones explains the concept of teachers and students living together...working, eating, studying together...all of it is there. The first few corps were small in number and it was a more personal experience...by the time the 6th corps came around, it was nothing more than herding cattle through hallways and playing tapes... By the time the 10th corps came around, it was difficult to find things to do at Emporia...there were more workers than there was work to do...I was assigned to walk around campus all day with a screwdriver in my hand looking for loose screws on chairs...and I paid good money for this training! ...As far as I can see, the greatest benefit of the waycorps training was that you got to walk around with a corps nametag on...and THAT demonstrated to everyone how spiritual you were...amen and amen.

How many of you had to put up with a self serving, egotistical, minimog during your twi daze? It wasn't only Wierwille...He was the master grifter but he had plenty of disciples. I saw plenty during my time with twi...I moved around a lot and had the opprotunity to see a lot of different twi "leaders" in action. They were all kings in their own little kingdoms...nice homes provided for them, nice cars, pretty young girls assigned to "assist" them in various ways... ...All of them, barking out orders, telling people how to live their lives, strutting about with an air of superiority... In all fairness, all of them were not this way...you were lucky if you were around some of the good ones. I experienced both. All in all, twi was a breeding ground for predatory manipulators...it brought the worst out in many people...and it was ugly. Cults are centered around a charismatic leader and the trickle down effect is inevitable...If imitation is the highest form of flattery then Wierwille and Martindale have been flattered immensely...and I see many of these former twi minimogs running their own cults now...they learned well from their "father in the scam"... Any thoughts regarding your experiences with these bullies?

A lot of thoughtful insight from a lot of good folks who went through this crap... Of COURSE there was an expectation to take assignments after the fours years of training was complete...The majority of corps grads were taking yearly assignments and the few who were not, were not spoken highly of. BUT...BUT...BUT... twi presented the taking of assignments as OPTIONAL in writing!...It was on the form that I signed, when I signed up for the corps...say what you will about what twi "expected", I held them accountable for what they had put in writing...and I made a lot of enemies by doing so...I refused to give in to the peer pressure...perhaps it was my own way of maintaining my own individuality...I'm not sure but I do know that they put it in writing and I didn't care what anybody thought. To me, it was a matter of integrity...THEY put the option in writing...otherwise, I never would have signed up. I realize that what I am saying is the exception as to how people thought and acted at the time...like I said, when Martindale announced that our committment was for a lifetime and not for 4 years...NOBODY complained about it (that I know of)...except me. I was fully aware of the "corps culture" that existed...They had turned the reading of the corps assignments into a yearly twi cultural event... I knew what they expected from me...but I also knew what they had put in writing...I suppose I was a maverick that didn't quite fit in...but then again, I never was a very good arse kisser.

...Question: How could you tell when Wierwille was lying? ...Answer: When his lips were moving. How can you believe ANYTHING that man said?...He has no more credibility than Jim Jones or David Koresh. My motto is... Wierwille said it, I don't believe it, that settles it. There's an old drunk who wears an army coat and stands on the street corner preaching...I believe HIM more than anything Wierwille said. I think the bible tells us to beware of false teachers...Wierwille's lifestyle qualifies him for that and that puts everything he ever taught in serious question...

In hindsight, it's amazing how Wierwille crafted together the foundation of twi...The bible had been around for centuries and it was Wierwille's job to make himself the authority of it and thus the "spokesman for God"...The bible teachings themselves were nothing special...a mish mash of fundamentalist teachings stolen from Christian writers...it was the snow on the gas pumps that sealed the deal...it was the hook...it was the way he meshed together twi and "God"...and the stories that followed like the man in India and the snowstorm in Tulsa were designed to reinforce the original "snow on the gas pumps" story... Believing Vic's bullsh *t was not like believing other things in life...He was making a claim that was singular in importance. I mean, "God talked to this guy!!!"...how do you top that one? Better yet, how did Vic look himself in the mirror after lying in God's name and watching thousands believe him? ...and the waycorps was his dreamchild...we were the sold out minions who would grovel at his feet and carry out his money making schemes...we were the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz who carried off small children... ...I can still hear Dorothy crying, "run Toto run"...