GrouchoMarxJr

...And how long will the Wierwille apologists continue to live in denial?... ...and not just the handful that hang out here...but the many who belong to splinter groups, independant "twigs", and the many who belong to the waycorps website...this man was a monster and shame on all who continue to glorify him and sing his praises... shame on them all...

now I see... A good place to start is by questioning everything... if Wierwille DID teach anything right...it was only because he stole it from somebody else...the first thing you should get rid of is the "law of believing"...it's wrong and it's destructive. this website is loaded with good info in regrds to your quest...

Oh yes...sliders (because they are so greasy, they slide your throat)...also called "rat burgers"... There have been a few nights (after drinking more beer that I should have), we would get a "crave case"...24 sliders (rat burgers)...and snarf them down in about 15 minutes...the next day, NOBODY wanted to be standing next to you... :o

I've said it before and I'll say it again... Wierwille ordained guys that he thought could make him money. I'm sure he flowerd it up with rituals and a variety of "spiritual stuff"...but the bottom line is that is was a scam... Of course he wanted people who would be "faithful" to him...and he found them...and he made a LOT of money. The rest of it was window dressing.

As far as the topic of this thread... I was "keenly" interested in the bible before twi...I was "intensely" interested during twi...and today...I don't read it. My opinion of what the bible is has changed from my twi days...drastically. I understand the information from that book that I need to...it's time to put down the book and live what you know to be true...knowing God is not about studying a book...it's about living the truth that is within you. ...Wierwille replaced "knowing Christ" with an academic approach to becoming "spiritual"...been there, done that. hey, if reading one of the psalms late at night, soothes your soul...by all means, do it...I'm just saying that twi had it wrong and it's time to move on...time to live it instead of studying it.

There are also some great Christian boards, that those so inclined, might enjoy... The GSC is not a Christian website...Posters are encouraged to think for themselves and to feel free to express those opinions... There are rules against certain types of behavior here...being atheist is not one of them. Seems to me that if certain folks want to publicly proclaim the particulars of their faith, they should expect to see opposing views...in fact, they should WELCOME opposing views...afterall, who wants to promote groupthink? ...and if "atheistic remarks" that are sprinkled into a "praise and worship" thread bothers people...maybe they SHOULD check out a Christian board?...I honestly don't think that George would follow anyone there...

...and the "spiritualhedgeofprotection" baloney got real old too... ...wonder why twi never taught us about the financial hedge of protection?...

I always thought it a bit odd when the interpretation was always spoken in King James English... ...and yeah, practice sessions!...practice?...I thought that God gave the utterence?...looking back it's seems quite humerous to me

...as I said in my earlier post, I am a Christian (but maybe not in the "traditional" sense )... ...that being said, I always appreciate George's posts...besides making me laugh, they usually make me think also. IMHO, organized religion is almost always steeped in rituals and other "weird stuff" with no evidence that they didn't just make it up...other than "TAKE IT BY FAITH"...I keep my "spiritual beliefs" personal and private and I put little stock in the money making, holier than thou, organized "God business'" that passes as Christianity in this country today. VP Wierwille was the PT Barnum who suckered us and conned us...ANYTHING he taught is suspect at best. Lo Shanta!

At the age of 27, I turned down an opprotunity to manage an automotive paint store in Denver, Co...nice salary, nice benefits...nice future... ...instead, I went into the 10th corps...

I don't think you can lump it all together... I think that God works with individuals and not groups...I think some were real and some were not... but...I'm a Christian...not everyone here is...I imagine that for them, it was all phoney. If/when people DID genuinely speak in tongues...it was in SPITE of twi...and by the way, I think Wierwille's "tongues" was as fake as a three dollar bill..."Lo shanta kalimasita"...gime a break.

I suppose the thing that bothers me is that a lot of these guys that Vic ordained...and I'm talking about the ones who STILL consider themselves "clergy"...do so, without any credentials whatsoever!...no seminaries...no bible colleges (Emporia doesn't count)...no theological schools...no degrees...nada! The only thing that they hang their hat on is that a cult leader put his hand on his head... So what is it?...Vic was wrong about what he did and what he taught EXCEPT their ordination?... I'll toss out all the wrong doctrines but my ordination is not among them?... Some of them are still with twi...some of them are in splinter groups...some of them are doing "other things" under the tile of "reverend"... if they really want to be Christian ministers, why don't they go to Moody bible college and take the classes that Vic only pretended to take...go legit!... Here's the thing...established denominations would never consider these clowns to be clergy...and that's ok with them because Vic taught them, by example, how to make money by starting their own cult... ...Whether they want to admit it or not, they are following in the steps of the cult leader that taught them...

...or maybe they are not comfortable in an environment where dissenting opinions are allowed to be presented and debated...or maybe it is not conducive to their marketing strategies to leave the bubble of "group think" followers where they successfully promote their tapes and books to a captive audience...

Ah yes, the fast food experience... The pimply faced kid asks me, "would you like fries with that sir?"...I respond, "If I wanted fries zit face, I would have asked for them!"...I lunge across the counter throwing a right hook at the punks face...moments later, the police are leading me out with handcuffs... ...of course, the above never happened...but nevertheless, corporate fast food places are one of the forerunners in the homogenization of our culture...the death of the mom and pop places...and along with their demise, we have lost the individual touch of the home cooked meal...the wide varieties of cooking styles and regional favorites...we have lost the good manners and genuine appreciation that was shown by the local owners and the local folks who worked in them... ...instead, we get corporate chains run by kids getting minimum wage and shoveling the food across the counter as the people line up like cattle...and no matter what city in this country you are in, that Big Mac tastes the same... America has changed dear friends...and not for the better. Hmmm...here's an idea, to help off set the high gas prices, maybe people should start making their own lunches at home and brown bagging it?

The operative word here is "seems"...and that is merely your own perspective. I believe that Rumrunner communicated that he did not enjoy the polarizing political climate and the us versus them mentality on this forum...(at least, that is MY perspective on what he said in his post)... Knowing Rumrunner as I do, I would submit that a more appropriate "forum" for a discussion on this particular topic would be better served if we were all sitting in students chairs and Rumrunner was standing with his back to the blackboard, holding a pointer...

It seems that Vic didn't do real well in getting his peers to fall for his baloney...they probably knew too much about his personal life... Vic excelled in preying on the young ones...the naive and the idealistic...the kids who knew next to nothing about life or Christianity...he swooped em up and ordained the ones who could further his agenda (make money)... ...and, although I cannot prove it, I have heard from numerous sources that the females that he ordained in the early years (early 70's)...got their "gift ministries" in the back of the motorcoach and Vic was rewarding them for their service.

I avoided witnessing at all costs...I always felt like a Jehova witness when I was "sent out"...it was always a horrifying experience for me....I hated it.

Not to minimilize the problem...but... ...it's just a thought away. ...what helped me?...and I know this doesn't work for everybody but when I discovered what a bunch of lowlife, lying abusers they were...it was easy to walk away in my mind... ...easy.

Ham...I'm starting to wonder...it seems like some folks cling to the idea that VP, in spite of his hedonistic lifestyle, was still teaching "some pretty good stuff"...sorry...I totally disagree...Wierwille led people away from Christ (the absent one) towards himself...his doctrines were destructive to people's lives....he was an egotistical drunk...I dismiss, out of hand, anything he ever said...because HE said it...he was a louse and an abuser.

Ummm...actually...no, he was wrong about that too... I read these various posts and I feel like gagging...I smell "waybrain"...sorry...but I left twi concepts behind a long time ago..."move the word"???...please...where's my barf bucket.

Paradiseden...a few of the reasons?...perhaps some of the other reasons he is prsident is because the former presidents all left/were fired..because of scandal. What does that say about this organizaion? I agree that John S seems like a swell guy with good intentions...and he probably is..BUT...I refer you to my above post (#11)...why would he invoke the name of VP Wierwille as somene who would be proud of him? Is this an indication of his "spiritual perception"?...Honest question.

The people that twi ordained were the ones that they thought could make them money...

When I was taught in the advanced class that the Beatles were part of a communist conspiracy, that Jimi Hendrix couldn't "really" play the guitar and that Willie Nelson was loaded with devil spirits...I knew something was really bonkers... Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?...a kewl place if you ask me...ever notice how twi was obsessed with the physical proximity of "evil things"?...can't live next to a cemetary, gotta clean the neighborhood of "evil spirits" when you move in...etc.,etc.,etc... ...if you ask me, they outta get rid of that "fountain of living waters"...I think it's crawlin' with demon snakes.

I'm surprised he never brought in Ron Pompeil to teach us new marketing techniques for selling the class... ...and Yeah, it was Bob Richards, not Paul...I wasn't aware of the connection there with the Liberty party and "Spotlight" magazine...to think that Wierwille's "revelation" was coming from a crackpot racist organization!...I guess it's all flowing together (sunesis)...

Yeah...that's the part that sticks in my throat. Knowing that Vic was a plagiarizing, drunken, sexual predator...who made a lifestyle out of abusing people and took narcism to a new level...WHY would they WANT this guy to be proud of them???...and if he would have been proud of them, what does that say about them? Although they seem to be sympathetic towards twi refugees, and they seem to be extending themselves to help these people...what are they REALLY doing? The bottom line is that Vic's "concept" of "knowing the "word" like it hasn't been known since the first century"...is still front and center in their "spiritual perspective". They don't see themselves as simple Christian folks who are seeking to worship God and fellowship with other Christians...They see themselves as "the special ones" whose job it is to teach us all the REAL truth that mainstram Christianity has been missing all these years... Like twi, they focus on Christianity as an intellectual excercise...and like Indiana Jones, they will fit the puzzle pieces together properly and find the lost ark... I don't know how someone can be aware of Wierwille's lifestyle and still embrace his "concepts of truth"...and pay tribute to him by announcing that he would "be proud of them"...the contradiction is glaring and adds nothing to their credibility.