GrouchoMarxJr

I suppose that when Vic taught that cancer was a devil spirit, he never imagined that he would fall victim to it himself...and of course, admitting he had cancer would present some "difficulties" with his doctrine...thus, the various stories.

Jim Jones and David Koresh come to mind...

It seems to me that "the structure provided by religion" FEEDS many of our "baser impulses"... Personally, I would rather enjoy the freedom of my own spirituality rather than the confines of a religious institution...but that's just me. It's my opinion that religion in general has been a massive failure throughout man's history...a cursory glance at the number of people who have been killed in the name of God...and the millions who have been and still are in the mental prisons provided by relgious structures, indicates that our "baser impulses" are thriving within the confines of religion.

According to Vic, he was going to give it a different name...but one of his children suggested "JCING"...Wierwille liked it because it WAS in your face and confrontational. This was Vic's big chance to seperate and isolate his little following from mainstream Christianity. Vic was a big mog in a little pond and he didn't want anyone to step on his "authority". Thus, JCING...Wierwille fostered the us versus them mentality that pitted wayfers against other Christians. His organization was the "one true church" and he was the pope from NewKnoxville. I believe that he deliberately promoted this controversial doctrine in order to facilitate his plans to keep twi seperate from any other Christian organizations...Vic didn't want to unify Christians...he wanted everyone to quit their churches and join HIS...afterall, he was the mog for his day and time... ...and I'm not sure if it made any difference to him WHAT the book was about...as long as it was controversial and would seperate his group from other groups...it could just as well have been "Eve was a lesbian"...Naw, on second thought...nobody is THAT stupid.

..."...control over people's lives..." and you say Vic was the "opposite"? He may have paid lip service to the US constitution, but in practice, he ran his organization like a dictatorship. People were to replace their own ideas of truth with what the Victoid told them to believe...and like Hitler, he had no tolernace for dissension as his word was final. Seems to me that controlling people without any regard to their well being is a nazi tactic and one that Wierwille knew well...and it was Wierwille himself, who made a big deal out of his German heritage... ...I can almost see him wearing the nazi uniform...goose stepping onto the motorcoach.

...As far as i know, he wasn't a card carrying member of the nazi party...but everything about him...what he believed, his lifestyle, his "apologies for Hitler", his genetic heritage...I think it's a legitimate question. His total disdain for for anyone who wouldn't "bow down to him"...what do you think? Was he a nazi?

Imagine that!...You mean, they betrayed our trust?... These people were bottom feeders...what a bunch of lowlifes...

Joel Osteen?...This guy is the latest star of the TV "Christian" whores who are getting filthy rich from the "gospel"... Interestingly enough, when John McCain was recently asked by a reporter what books he was reading...McCain, who had made a complete flip flop on his "agents of intolernace" remark about conservative Christians and was now pandering their support, said that "Osteen was at the top of his list"..."he's inspirational" McCain said....HA! Writer Matt Taibbi says of Osteen... "Of all the vile, fake, lyingass, money grubbing shyster scumbags on the face of this planet, there is perhaps none more loathsome than Osteen, a human haircut with baseball size teeth who has made a fortune selling the apalling only-in-America idea that terrestrial greed is actually a form of Christian devotion"...

Vic Wierwille teaching "Christian family and sex" is like Jeffery Dahmer teaching a cooking class...

Well now...that was quite a rebuttal. Mr Lynn, it sounds like you've been called out...and this guy even uses his real name! Speak up!...after composing the letter that you did...can you back up your words by addressing Dr. Juedes letter? YOU wrote the letter...do you dare respond here?

I'm not sure that deciding "what kind of site this is going to be" is an issue at all...THAT was decided at the inception of the GSC...as it was with Waydale before that. The mission is clearly stated...now it's simply a matter of setting parameters for how people interact on the various threads... It's sorta like reading posts about the positve times as a member of the third reich...at a holocost survivor website... ...doncha think?

...Actually....no. I think that Wierwille apologists should have no vote whatsoever...and should be consigned to the dunking booth for approptiate treatment.

That's a valid question Mark...and if I might add...considering the moral depravity of Vic Wierwille, he had zero credibilty in terms of his own ability to know what was right from what was wrong...he was a true sociopath. by the way...you DO know that Vic admitted to having fondled his daughter's breasts when they were 12 years old don't you? Picking on poor old "Dr." Wierwille?...he wasn't a doctor...

Not to sound like a broken record (I've mentioned this recently on other threads)...but if you believed the snow on the gas pumps story, you pretty much bought into the whole deal. ...and it's worth mentioning that as easy as it was to swallow the whole taco, it's just as easy to dismiss it as being bogus.

In my humble opinion...the real programming started in pfal when Wierwille told the story of the snow on the gas pumps... Up until then, he had been teaching the bible...suddenly he claims that God spoke to him audibly!...THAT was the hook. Suddenly it became something "different"...God spoke to this guy!!!!!!!! Everything changed...this was the guy that God had chosen to speak to and teach His word to...he was the "MOG" After that, everybody got in line...it was then a progression of filling us with the bullsh *t that they wanted us to believe. ...and I find it interesting that John Lynn is now appealing to what God told Wierwille when he spoke to him audibly..."I will teach you the word as it hasn't been known since the first century"...the snow on the gas pumps story! It's what started it all, it was the hook...and now Lynn is using it to promote his own "thing"... As far as I'm concerned, it was ALL bullsh *t...every bit of it.

Ummm...not all of us...I've been screeming at the top of my lungs for years now...that VP Wierwille was a scum bag who destroyed the lives of many people... Who am I to judge?...Aren't we supposed to be able to tell right from wrong?...From what I've seen, we were had. Let's face it, following twi was a total waste of time.

Imagine that!...Looking for a godly response from the leaders of a "Christian ministry"...whose credo was "it is written"... I can still hear Vic bellowing under the big top..."it's the word baby, the word the word and nothing but the word"...when actually, the "word" was twisted and perverted by his insane, self delusional, narcisstic and hedonistic views. The "word" meant whatever Vic decided it meant...Vic took the place of the absent Christ and led sincere young Christians into the bowels of depravity... ...but there are still some today who feel that Vic would be proud of them!....I think the whole bunch of them should be seeking professional help... snow on the gas pumps...good grief!

Holy crap...I just now read all five pages of this thread...and it took me a while because you guys type slow. DWBH...Your opening post was one of the most revealing and informative posts that I have ever read on the GSC... Some great responses...those of us who lived through this and understand what really happened are dumbstruck by the brutal disregard for people's lives, the self serving hedonistic ventures of Vic and his henchmen, and the truth of what these con men did. I'm thankful for those who escaped with little damage to their lives...but unfortunately, there were far too many who suffered greatly. Any decent, compassionate, caring person has to ask...what kind of monster was Victor Paul Wierwille?...did you say grand daughter?...this guy was living in the septic tank of human morality.

I left on my terms... I told them what I thought and walked out the door...never looked back...never regretted it. I got over it in about 10 minutes.

"we were all part of a cult"...I think that says it all. I have recollections of doing bless patrol at Emporia while Vic and his motorcoach were visiting...watching a young lady enter the coach and then sometime later exit the coach and walk away...even though it was well after midnight, sexual hanky panky NEVER ENTERED MY MIND...afterall, he was the mog.

Mark...Nice job in presenting the logic and the heart of the matter...but WD is not interested in what really happened...he is interested ONLY in his one point of contention...that VP Wierwille was not convicted in a court of law. ...but what kind of point is that?...really? We KNOW Vic was never convicted in a court of law....it's really a non-point. It's antics with semantics. It doesn't matter to WD the damage that was done the the victim...his only passion is to seek out places in posts where he can remind us all again that Wierwille was never convicted of a crime. ...By clinging to his one point, WD can then cast doubts on the integrity of every individual that was victimized by Wierwille. Wasn't the resurrection of Christ recorded as having been seen by eyewitnesses who gave first hand accounts? ..and come to think of it...was Hitler ever convicted in a court of law?...or Chairman Mao? When people discuss the atrocities of these individuals, does WD point out that they were never convicted of a crime and that they are being unfairly labeled? It would seem that WD's "point of contention" is nothing more than a straw dog argument, fueled by circular reasoning. It would also seem that WD has his own agenda for doing this...as I've been saying all along.

Funeral plans?... "throw my brain in a hurricane. the blind can have my eyes. the deaf can have both my ears if they don't mind the size." ...John Prine

T-bone...great post!...black and white?...hardly! Life is made up of layers...all sorts of shades...it's not as easy as it once was...but at least it's honest.

I tend to agree with you. I believe in a spiritual realm...but IMO, twi was clueless and led people away from a legitimate spiritual perception through their religious dogmas and "formula Christianity"...A person doesn't get to know God by affiliating with and following hucksters who are pulling a money con.