GrouchoMarxJr

...and the contradiction is glaring. My screen is also jumping...but only on this website...Techies?

I suppose that lcm has justified everything in his mind...and some people accuse me of being bitter...sure I'm bitter...and none the less for it. I call it righteous indignation. I don't lose any sleep over it and I rarely think about it except when I come here...it's an opinion I have of the guy and of course, feelings of disdain seem to accompany this opinion. ...I feel that the truth about twi, Wierwille, Martindale and the rest of them needs to be told...So that the victims can come to terms, and future "recruits" can be warned. Twi is a cult, always has been...and if you get involved, you're likely to get burned.

Lynn would have been more accurate to compare Wierwille to Jim Jones or David Koresh...the main difference was that twi avoided the mass killings and thus the notoriety. I would ask Mr Lynn how he reconciles Wierwille's dishonest and hedonistic lifestyle to the standards that are set in the book of Timothy for Christian leadership...bad tree, good fruit? ...I'm actually surprised to see Lynn endearing himself to the myth of the "snow on the gas pumps" story...this was when Vic claimed that God spoke to him audibly and told him that he would teach him the word as it had not been known since the 1st century...but in reality, Vic simply lifted the works of others (oftentimes, word for word) and passed it off as his own research. The question that remains is did God really speak to VPW that day...There are only 3 possible answers: 1-Yes 2-No, but Wierwille thought he did because he's a nut case 3-No, but Wierwille lied and said he did. I vote for number 3.

...and more often than not, "deliverence" was defined by whether someone bought the product or not. For VP Wierwille, "the valley of human need" was nothing more than a marketing term used to descibe his potential sales prospects.

"His young son is pretty angry about how his dad is treated" treated by whom?..does this imply that the young Martindale is a lurker at the Greasespot cafe? If that's the case, maybe the young Martindale would like to post and speak his mind?...Unless of course, he would rather read what others say and give no response? Afterall, if you have nothing valid to say, why not keep your mouth shut and simply be a.........................lurker.

Happy belated birthday to one of twi's sharpest critics...and that makes him one of the good guys.

I've held my tongue until now... Chris Geer would have have been a favorite of Adolph Hitler and his third reich... I had more than a few experiences with him. The guy is a genuine nutcase...Paranoid psychopath with a huge ego problem. Don't be fooled by his "charm"...this guy is a rattlesnake.

No doubt...that's Rosie!...Rosie the hatchet lady. ...Joe Coulter's name only reinforces the obvious... My gawd, now what are they up to?...unforgetable life?...Ha, knowing where all the bodies are buried would, no doubt, provide an "unforgetable life".

I won't ask you to define "offshoots"...I think we all know what you mean...and in that sense, I would say, yes, they are all cults. ...but I also know of former twi leaders who have taken a different path and have directed their Christian service towards mainstream churches...they have gotten involved with people on a grass roots level and are involved with more "traditional" (are you listening JAL?) organizations that actually help people. As I said in my earlier post...it was the snow on the gas pumps story. Lynn still is evoking this story to add legitimacy to his own cult...afterall, "Dr." Wierwille would be proud of him. I think that the relationship with Christ begins on a personal level...and is a private matter. Christian fellowship is established AFTER you have made your own personal trek into faith... ...and afterall, Christ was absent from twi.

wow!...that's really cool.

I can't imagine that they DON'T pay him. I think it reasonable to assume that twi gave him a golden parachute...his wife and kids were allowed to stay, and wasn't he living in a house that twi owned? He probably gets monthly checks. Wish him well?...If he passed me on the street, I'd walk up to him and kick him in the b* lls. It's my understanding that he's still arrogant as hell and unrepentant for anything he did...he probably thinks of himself like one of the old testament prophets that the people turned from...didn't they call Jeremiah the weeping prophet?...maybe we should call him the delusional okie. I don't base my opinion of the man on how he treated me personally, although I could...I look at the hundreds and hundreds of people that he walked over...that he abused...some committed suicide, others went to mental institutions...my own experience was that the one time when I had a real problem and turned to him...he treated me with total indifference and what I perceive as a sadistic pleasure in turning his back on me... ...fine, I survived without breaking a sweat. I always saw through that guy...he was nothing but an egotistical blowhard...and meanspirited too. Yeah...if I was a bettin' man, I'd say that okie Loy is still cashing those monthly checks from twi.

My apologies to PT Barnum... :)

I seem to recall that at the center of this controversy was the IRS threatening to take away twi's tax exemption?

My biggest grievance against Wierwille and twi has always been that they lied in God's name...

I remember sitting through pfal for the first time...and after he told that story...I was in awe...I sat there thinking to myself..."God spoke to this guy, holy crap!"...because if you didn't buy it, you walked out... after that...everything else was totally subjective learning...I sat there like a sponge and soaked it up. He was suddenly the mog!...everything was built upon the snow on the gaspumps story...think about it. The whole frickin' shooting match was built on this bulls **t story!...What an outrage!...He would have made PT Barnum proud.

OK kids...it's time to get down to the bottom line... When Vic told his story of the snow on the gas pumps and how God spoke to him...and when you believed it...at that moment you were in a cult... If the sexual abuse never happened and none of the other bad stuff happened...you were still in a cult. That's where it started...that was the hook.

I recall quite well a night when I was at Emporia...in the 10th corps...Martindale was screaming..."All I ever wanted was to be RIGHT!"...He was totally obsessed with holding this absolute truth, to the end that he became delusional...and he went insane. I think Martindale is the extreme example of what happened to a lot of people in lesser degrees perhaps but also in varying degrees. There's an almost intoxicating mental state that occurs when a person deludes themself with "I am one of the special ones" ...they annoy those of us who really are.

I wonder if they put Drambuie Vic next to the King of the Gypsies at the same table...

Yes, you were part of a cult...but it seems that you were able to "keep your distance" and never got close enough to the fire to be burned badly...and that's to your credit. If you were caught in a hurricane but had a good shelter and survived unscathed, were you really in a hurricane?

adhering to intolerance does not equal "controlling their minds"...besides, wasn't there an elected conservative republican who was recently busted for cruising public restrooms looking for other men? If the republicans who now hold office represent those who "control their minds", I would suggest that they have not brought every thought captive to the obedience of Christ... I find much more Christian thought and behavior amoung liberals than I do amoung conservatives... My guess is that twi supports McCain and Palin.

Control your thoughts...what a novel concept...and by the way, we'll tell you what to think. Because if you don't think the way we tell you to think, the devil will enter into your life!!! Sorry Ajax, no deal...been there, done that...twi can kiss my a **. My thoughts come by fiat...I decide...and my thoughts are based upon my own Christian beliefs and how they relate to any given situation. I call em like I see em. I'd rather smoke dope and listen to Jefferson Airplane than to ever listen to another cult leader.

...and I find it ironic that the banner ad at the bottom of my page, "The Alfred Hitchcock Hour"...somehow seems fitting.

...and therein lies the crux of the matter...twi deceived people into thinking they were serving the lord when in reality, they were not...why is that? Because it was at the twig level...where people who exhibited Christian behavior (love, compassion, caring, giving, extending yourself to help someone)...THESE qualities that others saw SUCKED PEOPLE IN...sucked them into believing destructive doctrines, and led them into being used by a self serving cult. Twi was parasitic in the way they used the genuine Christian behavior of their followers to lure in others...lure them into coughing up their MONEY to twi...and leading them to believe things that put them into subjugation. Perhaps when a former follower of twi realizes how they have been used, they try to rationalize it by saying "they served the lord because of what they believed and how they behaved themselves"...but the bottom line is that they fed the beast...plain and simple. You cannot serve both God and mammon...and twi was certainly being served by it's followers.

Shortly after leaving twi (1987), I saw the comparison between Simon the Sorcerer and Vic the one eyed monster...I suppose the phrase "...giving out that himself was some great one" was my first clue. Vic took the place of the absent Christ for crying out loud! ...Was it sorcery?...Well hell's bells rudy, if it wasn't, it might as well have been.

Considering Wierwille's hedonistic lifestyle, it's difficult for me to believe that he led ANYONE into anything "spiritually supernatural"...his own tongue was bullsh *t...lo shanta kalimisita (over and over again)...and the circumstances behind his "being led into tongues" was laden with lies and sexism...snowstorm in Tulsa my foot. I don't buy it...I will not deny the reality of speaking in tongues but Victor Cornfield Werewolf never did it...nor did he ever lead anyone into it...he was as phoney as a three dollar bill...and I don't doubt dmiller's experience for a moment...he's a REAL Christian...my "perception".