GrouchoMarxJr

Over 300 staff at twi hdqrts?...Scheesh! Isn't that about 10% of the whole organization? There's mega churches with 25,000 members that have far less staff members. I would compare it more to David Koresh and his isolated commune...What was once built upon the charisma of a cult leader is now sustained by the money made during those years. Word over the world has been replaced with circle the wagons and live off of the money...A betrayal to all who ever supported this nefarious organization.

The ones that I knew who drew a salary, always seemed to have plenty of leisure time on their hands... ...As far as I can tell, the actual work they did was a part time job at most. I mean, how long does it take to fill out the blue form, send in the money and schedule a few meetings? ...most of them were lazy and arrogant...and felt entitled to take advantage of others.

I see your point...

OK...147 acres of farm land in Ohio may not be a fortune, but twi amassed Emporia, Rome city, Gunnison, Tinney, New Mexico and the property in Scotland...not to mention, all the "improvements" at Hdwq...the wow auditorium...these were real assets. even today, 30 years later, twi boasts of having $40 million in assets... His family got the heave ho...

...When I was in the corps, I never had to worry about having my job cut because they didn't pay me...I paid them. I spent 4 hours a day walking around with a screwdriver in my hand looking for chairs that needed to have nuts tightened. It was an awsome responsibilty...afterall, I wouldn't want to see someone sit down on a chair and have it collapse on them, sending them tumulting to the floor because I had failed to do my job. In my 13 years of involvement with twi, I never received one penny for ANYTHING that I ever did for them... A pox on them all...I hope that they lose every dime they have and end up sleeping in cardboard boxes.

Especially when one considers the fact that Wierwille cut his family out of the fortune he had amassed... Millions and millions of dollars...Vic signed it over to the Way...his family got nada...the family farm...gone. ...and Wierwille did this so he could avoid taxes...a little self serving?

Koombiyaaaaa my lord, koombiyaaaaaaaaaaaaaa... ...

I think Jeff just hit the sweet part of the ball...as I recently said in another thread, when Wierwille went to California and met with Jimmy Doop, the first thing he asked for was to be taken to a sex orgy. Wierwille was a lowlife predator, the kind of guy you find hanging out in adult bookstores. The fact that he held the "position" that he did only makes it so much worse. Some people think I'm hard on Wierwille...I don't think so. I think I'm just being honest.

Whatever "doctrine" twi taught regarding sex, their actions spoke loudly. ...don't forget, when Wierwille went to California to visit the Way west...the first thing he asked Jimmy Doop was to take him to a sex orgy. They always had double standards...and that makes their "doctrines" pretty lame as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't let a "way believer" within a 1000 feet of where I sleep...isn't that the distance that a sex offender has to stay away from a school?

The way I see it, if a person comes up to me and apologizes for something...I will forgive them in a heartbeat...but does twi seek forgiveness?...do they repent of the harm they did to so many people?...do they recant the wrong and destructives doctrines they taught people?...or do they still teach them? Has anyone here received an apology from twi for what they did to us?...hell no! ...twi is an ongoing evil. Rosie chortled that they still have $40 million in assets and they weren't worried about ABS...this is their retirement organization now. They're still living off the money that I gave them in the 70's and 80's...and they strut around in their arrogance. Forgive them?...let's think about this for a minute...if I forgive them for what they do on Monday, then I have to do it all over again on Tuesday...and Wed, etc. ...like Bob Dylan once said..."I'll stand on your grave til I'm sure that you're dead".

I could be wrong but I think it had something to do with supporting the trinity position...

Aha...the bottom line! I'm afraid that you will have to put up with the cult thing for awhile longer. ...and then...good ridence.

...and renovate it they will...but what I wonder is...does Vic jr tell the "snow on the gaspumps" story late at night around the campfire?

...while they're at it, they could also outsource the research department...maybe some fresh minds would help... :blink:

Welcome miketheorganist... I can only speak for myself...Are you asking me to forgive an organization that continues in it's evil and does not seek forgiveness? I cannot condone what they do and I believe it's important to let others know the "other side" so that an informed decision can be made and people can be helped. I believe that much of twi's doctrinal views were harmful to people...from your initial post, I would surmise that you still believe in certain twi doctrines...you may discover that there are many here who hold different beliefs and have different perspectives...and that's ok, I would suggest keeping an open mind (something that twi discouraged...leads to "devil possession")... I agree with you that bittereness can consume a person...but don't confuse bitterness with honest criticism.

...No matter what you did it was never enough. They had people pushing themselves to exhaustion and sacrificing a great deal in order to keep their green name tags...Very seldom does arrogance show gratitude...twi was no exception to that.

Happy birthday to someone I met nearly 30 years ago!... the very best to you on your special day.

I remember the 1st time I took the class (1975)...I was hanging around after the session ended and I overheard someone being chewed out for not donating to the refreshment fund...I remember thinking...7 people are paying $85 bucks apiece for cassette tapes that will be returned for further use...what? they can't afford to buy refreshments? ...the next session, I brought them a can a coffee and a box of cookies...I should have known better.

No...his initials weren't GH...which only illustrates my point...this was quite widespread. Twi leaders became kings in their own little kingdoms...they felt that their "status" or "title" was a license to use people. ...and anyone who complained was "spiritually immature" and a trouble maker. I was in the corps and I know that what I am saying is true. I do not recall ever attending any twi meeting (with corps leadership), where giving something to a believer in need was ever discussed...it was ALWAYS...how can we get people to give and do more.

...and I recall those "advances"...the ones where they would charge you about $269 for one night in a hotel and a couple of skimpy meals...(along with a cheap syllabus)...and they would STILL pass the horn before it was over. they had multiple ways in which to make money off of you and it seemed like nothing ever came back except cheap junk. Maybe that's why they could afford to build their empire...Hdqrts, Emporia, Rome city, Gunison, Scotland, New Mexico location...private planes, buses, motorcycles, etc., etc., etc... even today they still have what?...40 million in assets?...all collected from the glory years of VP...

I believe that twi not only abused people and took advantage of them, but they bred this notion into the heads of their "leadership" 2 quick examples... A girl who had just started attending my twig was asked by the ordained clergy guy branch leader if she would like to work for him for a day in his window cleaning business...she was badly in need of money and agreed...at the end of the day he refused to pay her telling her that she would be "blessed" for helping him for free...she never came to another twig. This same "leader" asked a guy in my twig to drive him around town so that he could conduct his business (having a driver made him feel important)...at the end of the day, he refused to give the guy any gas money and made him pay for his own lunch...AND chewed him out because his tires were a little bald and he was endangering the life of God's leader!!! Wierwille's great con had a trickledown effect and instilled arrogance in many people...When it came to finances, work, or anything else that required effort, twi's policy was to take...not give.

Rumrunner...you nippin' on the rum again tonight?

Fair enough John...I'm not out to hound you... You seem sincere enough in your desire to help people...and I won't knock that. All I ask for is sincerity in your posting ...don't pretend to be "one of us" if you are here hawking business...if you want to hang out and have genuine disussions with people...that's great...if your motive is to make money off of Greasespotters...then maybe you should pay for an ad at the top of the page...know what I mean? I do appreciate your willingness to answer questions and engage with people...this place has always served as a port in the storm for ex twiers...a place where they could connect with others who had similar experiences...there's been a lot of healing here. Forgive me if I have a protective attitude about this place...we don't want people here who are trying to make a buck off of us...I'm sure you understand....peace.

You're right potato...but not all of them were "found out"... ...it was always about the money with the top twi people.

Fortunately, there were many renegades in twi who didn't follow the rules...I could mention a few, but I will refrain for the sake of discretion. I know of ordained clergy who withheld ABS in order to help local people who had real problems...If twi was unwilling to follow the admonition of "distribution was made to every man according to their needs"...there were many who took it upon themselves to " do what was necessary"...