GrouchoMarxJr

Johnny Townsend (who did a great imitation of VP Cornfield, "bless your heart") ...Sure why not... I first met him in 1975 when he was limb leader of New York...he used to mow the grass at twi hdqrts...I guess he kissed Vic's arse enough to fall into his favor. ...and yeah. last I heard, he was playing the "Geer card"...a weasly punk in my estimation. (Edited to remove an uncorroborated fact)

People are herd animals...they seek to belong to a group that will offer them community and reinforcement...everyone wants to belong to something and, in a way, I don't blame them...as for myself, no thanks...when I die, I will stand before God alone...I would rather hang with my true friends than with a religious group...at least I will know that their concern and friendship is genuine...as is mine.

Dickie was an inspiration to all who had the privilege of knowing him. He had the heart of a champion...always did the best he could against overwhelming odds and I for one, will never forget him.

You got that right... Sunesis...you're an "old timer" here...people have come and gone...glad to see that you're still posting. :)

Ha!...Good to see my "years old" thread revived... I tend to agree with potato...Jim Doop told me once that Martindale was a grade A a** hole from day one... He was a firey speaker but that was it...he was all talk...no real compassion or heart felt desire to help people...at least, not from my experiences with him. The fact that Wierwille chose him to be the prez speaks volumes... ...and as far as him shooting off his pie hole about how he coulda been the top dog of a fortune 500 company...that's VERY revealing...he acted like he was doing us a favor...I thought that a Christian minister was acknowledging his "calling". A true Christian minister is someone who humbly serves people...not an egotistical blowhard who acts like he's doing you a favor by subjecting you to his ranting and raving...good grief!

Sounds like a fun thread... I'd like to get drunk/stoned with: 1-Robin Williams 2-Lewis Black 3-Colin Powell 4-Alan Ginsberg 5-Ringo Starr

Word over the world completed?....what an idiot! "Word over the world" was the carrot on the stick...Lcm not only did away with the wow program, the roa and the pfal class...but he also took away the GOAL!...what a moron....talk about killing the cash cow...

Why would it be? I post here to expose the evils of twi...

C'mon you guys...the guy was drunk every day by noon...he screwed young girls and copied other people's writings word for word... do you need a roadmap? There was no snowstorm, he lied...plain and simple.

Twi started as a cult that was based on the charisma of of it's founder...The current president has no charisma and the cult exists solely on the fact that they amassed a large amount of assets in their "glory years"...International hdqtrs serves as a "retirement home" for many of these old timers...any pretense of "Christian ministry" is window dressing.

I agree George...Wierwille loved coming out on stage at the roa and calling the wows..."my kids"...yeah, we were his "kids" allright...he invested NOTHING...we, at our own expense, traveled to a different place with strangers and set up shop to make Vic money (not to mention providing him with quite a bit of sex with young girls)... ..."thank you sir, may I have another" should have been the wow mantra. Bend over and grab your ankles, Vic is about to drive you...and you pay for it to boot. a license to be that stupid indeed...and be required to hang it around their necks.

Isn't this the bottom line?... To question Wierwille was a sure sign of "spiritual immaturity" or spiritual "problems"...defering your opinions over to der Victoid was mandatory...and of course once this occurred, you became a mindless f** k chimp. The other 24 steps that follow are like dominoes tumbling...

I'll tell you exactly who Victor drambuie breath Wierwille was...he was the Ron Pompeil of Christianity...he was selling vegamatics. ...and we sliced and we diced...or so we tried...the damn thing didn't work! ...and should we marvel? He was laughing all the way to the back of the motorcoach.

Besides the internet?...Hmmm, I think the internet was the catalyst that started a snowball down rolling downhill, exposing their corruption, etc... ...Perhaps the actions of lcm...loyalty oath, sexual escapades, his "new teachings"...perhaps these things scared many of the other top leaders of twi...they started to realize that he was nuts.

Wierwille disqualified himself from true Christian ministry by his own lifestyle and behavior...I think that the standards set in the books of Timothy for Christian ministers are quite clear...that is why Wierwille never wrote down "what God revealed to him"...he wrote down (word for word) what other men had written in their books...this is called plagiarism. You call the testamonies of Wierwille's victims "jibber jabber"?...Hmmm, I find the criticism of Wierwille to be reminiscent of the criticism directed towards Jim Jones, David Koresh and Simon the sorceror.

...in hindsight, there was nothing very equitable about a twi marriage. While Vic was teaching about the virtuous woman from proverbs, he was humiliating his wife by having multiple affairs and treating her like dirt. The reality of twi's culture of subjugation for women destroyed many marriages...from a male point of view I can say that many men were labeled as wimps because they refused to rule, dominate, and subjugate their wives. The men who did treat their wives like this were on their way to emulate Wierwille...It was an ugly culture to be sure.

I remember lcm using that phrase in the mid 70's...it became a standard part of his schtick whenever he mentioned tithing. I seem to recall Wierwiile using the phrase as well...but even if he didn't, he never corrected lcm for saying it...which implies agreement. Twi taught of a God that provides protection when you give him a certain percentage of your money...just like the mafia does.

As in many things that Wierwille did, there was an ulterior motive to the CF&S class... 1-instill the idea in the minds of his young female followers that sexual activity is not only permissible but a way in which to "bless a man of God" who had "needs". 2-to consider abortion as a viable alternative for any pregnancies that occurred due to their promiscuity. 3-to subjugate women in the submissive role that Wierwille so cherished ...There was additional "sexual information" that was eeked out through various twi venues...such as in the advanced class when Wierwille mentions in passing that God has given us sexual freedoms that we are not yet spiritually mature enough to "handle"...this would set the stage for Wierwiile telling his victims that they WERE spiritually mature enough to "handle it". Having Wierwille (or Martindale) teach about Christian family and sex is like Jeffrey Dahmer teaching about gourmet cooking.

...and we all know that Wheaties are the breakfast of champions. Snarf those flakes up, renew your minds and fill out those blue forms...

...And let's not forget the poll...as of this post, 75% think that Wierwille made it up...I find that encouraging. 3/4 of the folks who responded to the poll have got it right...that's not bad. Let's face it, not every turtle makes it to the sea...some of them get run over by cars, some take the wrong direction and get lost and others stick their heads into their shells and live in a pretend world where everything is lovely...and then they die. Personally, I think the pro- wierwille posters serve a purpose...first of all, it would get boring here if everybody thought the same way...and secondly, they provide a living example of how good a con man Wierwiile was....24 years after he kicked the bucket, there are still people who feed at table that he set....still eating the wow burgers. ...let's all sing: Yes it is Wierwille, Yes it is Wierwille, Yes it is Wierwille in my soul... For I have touched the edge of the gaspumps and the snow (job) has made me whole... thank you Dorothy, thank you Rhoda...and goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.

Wierwille was a walking contradiction. His teachings quite often had very little, if anything to do with his actions. He was like the "Flim Flam Man"...he knew that sooner or later you would catch on to the con...but by then, he had the money and got away clean... ...that's my only explanation to his "forced phenomenon"...Supposedly, Vic had all this "one on one" stuff going with God...but YET he would not allow his followers the same privilege. They were army ants who had to follow a chain of command and get all revelation "cleared" through Vic's hierarcy... I think that half the time he was buzzing on Drambuie and simply made it up as went...

That's right...he was a con man, a liar, a drunk, an abuser of women, a plagiarizer, a liar and a hedonistic pig. ...he should have been thrown in jail.

..."cancer is a devil spirit".. ...said one eyed Vic...ouch!

A presentation?...I would say that you have picked a "tough crowd" for this particular "presentation"...kinda like preaching the virtues of Hitler at a synagogue...but of course, you already knew that. I'm afraid your "presentation" consists of false assumptions that I find foolish... ...to each his own.

So...if I understand Mike's argument...Wierille's books were of God because God taught Wierwille. As in George's relevant links previously, I would point out that Mike's argument is "begging the question"...in other words, his conclusion is entailed in his premise. Instead of presenting an argument to support his claim that God spoke to Wierwille, he begins with that assumption. I posted earlier that Wierwille's behavior and lifestyle excluded him from being a genuine Christian minister according to biblical standards...all things considered, I find Mike's logic to be both circular and self deceiving. If it's simply a matter of faith, I would rather place my faith in Christ than in the outlandish claims of an immoral man.