GrouchoMarxJr

coupcake...Tom and Lori were both very good friends of mine. I knew them in Rochester and in Colorado. I lost track of both of them years ago...what happened to Tom, pray tell?

It is my sincere hope to see twi totally bankrupt and out of business before I am laid to my rest. When that glorious day comes, I will raise my glass and make a toast and as Bob Dylan once said "I will stand on their grave til I'm sure that their dead".

fortunateone...you sound as if you have a pretty reliable source for your statements. Are you a recent "outie" or do you have some kind of inside info? I left twi in 1987 so my opinions are based on what I knew about these people 17 years ago. I just can't imagine the rosie I knew back then as being able to run twi with any authority or fire at all. On the other hand lcm was the type to have a back up plan...seems as though he would have tried to maintain control from a distance with one of his puppets in charge. Maybe I'm wrong...just sorta thinking out loud.

JustThinking...I think you missed my point. The fact that you used Moses as an example indicates that you perceive the twi version of Christianity. In other words, you need an organization, "headed" up by one leader at the top (shall we call him the mog?) who delegates through a chain of command. Afterall, how else could it possibly function??? Organizations are fine if you're selling soap, building houses or pedaling books and tapes. As far as I can tell, Christianity has one head...Christ. The bible says that he orchestrates "his body" in a "spiritual way". I have nothing against Christian organizations as long as they don't hinder the way in which the Christian "church" is supposed to operate. Organizations are not an essential ingredient, according to the bible, in the spiritual functioning of the church...and don't give me that hooey about the gift ministries because they are never told to operate within an organization either. As far as mixing evil with aspects of an organization, it's really not mixing apples and oranges when you consider my above points. I guess what I should have stated was that Jesus never formed or belonged to any organization nor did he committ any evil. These are two aspects that twi did engage in. Jesus never engaged in either...that was my point. My implication is that the true body of Christ is organization-free in it's purest form and operates best when individuals have their own access to the Head rather than denying this access by referring to an organization instead of going directly to the Head themselves. Can anybody tell that I have been soured on religion?

Thinking a little more on this subject, I must take note, that when studying the life of Jesus, I do not see any manipulation or secrecy going on at all. No name tags, no lock boxes, no titles, no corporations, no buildings or properties, no organizational plans, no tax exempt status, no lawsuits, no rape accusations, no power echelons, no chain of commands, no political endorsements, no fund drives, bake sales or bingo nights. Jesus never asked to be paid money to teach, never handed out any loyalty oaths to be signed, was never sadistic or controlling or dishonest. Maybe twi got it wrong in a few places?

insurgent...good question. Why does it become sexual? The experts claim that rape is not so much sexual as it is a control issue. Inversely, extreme control would logically manifest itself into sexual exploitation. Probably because a persons sexuality lies at the very center of their personal life, exploiting it, would give the controller access to the most vulnerable, and personal aspect of the individuals life. I don't know...seems to make sense. It only goes to show that if twi leaders had truly cared about their flock, this crap would not have happened. A manipulative, sadistic exploiter is the complete opposite of a nuturing, loving Christian leader.

I recently listened to a prominent psychologist who was discussing the treatment of prisoners in Iraq. He stated that whenever there is a situation where one person has absolute authority over another and is operating under a veil of secrecy, that sadistic behavior often developes leading to sexual humiliation and degradation of the "prisoner". I couldn't help but notice the paralel between the guard/prisoner relationship and the twi leader/follower relationship. There's no doubt that lcm operated with complete authority and with a veil of secrecy. His sexual exploits are known by many... This would also help to explain how seemingly well intentioned people walked into a situation where they became sadistic and corrupt. The arrogant attitude of leadership, the aloofness, the sexual exploitation perhaps was fueled by the climate of "absolute authority" and "a veil of secrecy". They became kings in their own little kingdoms. As the brainwashed peasants kissed their rings, their minds went over to the "dark side"...Certainly not in every case, but in many.

Someone already mentioned it, but those damn retemories were terribly boring and at times terrifying. We all crammed them into our heads, had to be word for word perfect, or it wasn't good enough. Lcm would routinely tear a person apart if they missed a single word. Public humiliation and extrememe verbal abuse in front of hundreds, making an example of them. It wasn't enough that you understood their definitions of manifestations...you had to use the exact same words when describing them or you were treated like a complete bufoon. There were many days that I would sit and sweat it out, hoping he wouldn't call on me....

In 1975 I led a blind guy by the arm up to talk to veepee. He asked veepee to minister healing to him, he was really excited! Veepee told him to "take the class and he would receive his eyesight during the class". I heard him with my own ears. The guy took the class, did NOT get healed, and died several months later...stick that in your pipe and smoke it Mike.

Back when I was involved, every person at twig was given a turn to teach on different nights. It seems that every twig I was a part of had somebody that had no business ever trying to "teach". Those were the most boring nights imaginable. Some new guy with a lower than average IQ. and a "reading handicap" would painstakingly read 4 chapters from the book of Samuel and then "expound" on it. Those were the nights that I usually pulled a 12 pack of cold beer out of the fridge after fellowship just to take the "edge" off.

Craig Martindale...the man who had a thriving business handed to him on a silver platter? The man who totally destroyed this same business because of his own insecure ego and delusions of grandeur? The man who victimized thousands, accused rapist, and defrocked minister? The man whose biblical scholarship is a total joke? The man who taught us that Eve was a lesbian? The man who considered himself the man of God in the world today? Why, I believe he loads trucks now.

Tomtuttle...that was hysterical! I sat through my share of those dreaded corps nights myself. The thing that comes foremost to my mind, when considering "boring moments" with twi has to be, hands down, session 4 of pfal. You remember, where the cornfield preacher goes on and on and on about that amazing piece of research, affectionately referred to as "THE FOUR CRUCIFIED". Just bringing it back to my conscious mind causes a dull ache in my frontal lobe. It was always when this session was scheduled, that I would volunteer for childrens fellowship...hell, I would have volunteered for cleaning the restrooms in a Mexican bean factory with my toothbrush, if it meant that I could somehow escape having to sit through session 4...one moooooore time. On and on he would go, the never ending explanation of the robbers and the malefactors. I would chew on the end of a pencil to keep from screaming. I would live for that 10 minute break, when I would gobble down 2 cookies, chainsmoke 2 cigaretts and wash it down with some burnt coffee that would make Juan Valdez want to committ suicide. Then it was "back to your seats"...the dreaded death march back to another hour and a half of grifter vic with his skinny tie. Aaaaarrghhh!!!

I think twi was phoney from it's inception to the present day. If God healed anybody in twi, He probably healed them in the same proportion that He heals people who work for Burger King. I knew a certain twi rev. who got "healed" at the rock of ages and refused any medical attention after that. His funeral was held a few months later.

It's funny how twi always INSISTED that we wear those damn name tags. It was a no brainer, even at the time, that the name tag was nothing more than an ego feeder and a cause for division. The "haves" and the "have nots". I believe that the entire "cast system" of twi was represented by those damn name tags. Everyone got to see at what level of the tree you had climbed by reading the tag. I guess because there was a total lack in real spiritual maturity, ther had to be SOMETHING in which to gauge how high you had climbed the tree. If the vessel is empty inside, you have to "spruce up" the outside for appearances sake.

Another good example of false twi doctrine. Of course all sins are not the same! Veepee made it up as he went. If all sins are equal, why were there different penalties for different sins in the old testament? A lot of what the cornfield preacher said was totally illogical and was contray to the bible. That's why so many established Christian organizations called us a cult...we were.

C'mon now...who really believes that Rosie is the top banana? Did lcm hand pick her to be a figure head while he is a "leader in exile"? Is lcm really living on twi's nickle still? Why is his wife still allowed to live at headquarters? Is he sending in "secret instructions"? Why did twi get rid of veepee's class when he died but they keep lcm's class even after he's been defrocked? I find it hard to believe that the brainwashed minions of twi would get rid of the MOGFAT based on a legal wrangle. I say let's smoke this creep out of the woodwork and chase him down the streets like the torch carrying villagers after the Frankenstein monster.

I remember very well listening to veepee go on and on about how it was being built for the corps. I also remember lcm deciding to take it for his own. I felt that lcm was off on an ego trip and being very selfish....I was right.

dmiller... actually they DID think we were a bunch of idiots. Once we pinned that freakin' nametag on, they had us. Fortunately, most of us walked out of zombieville and figured out a way to recover. Others, like Mike, are still in a trance.

Yeah, the Elvis story is true. I believe that it was during the ROA that Elvis died and a certain rev. told me that veepee had declared that satan chose the time of Stevie Kays first solo album to kill Elvis because there had been talk about "reaching" out into the secular realm with her album. I guess because there was a sudden demand for Elvis records, the record company that was going to produce Stevie Kays album backed out of the deal in order to make more Elvis records. It's amazing how those stories used to spread.

Yeah, I remember the story about the phone booth :D--> There was also a story about how veepee traveled from camp Gunnison to Denver in 5 minutes! There was a major snowstorm (another snowstorm story ;)-->...and of course the mog had to get to Denver to teach. Naturally, an angel showed up and whisked vic away (not exactly sure about the method of travel but I vaguely recall something about "he was transported!"). I find it a great source of amusement thinking about these things. When I realize that I actually believed these stories, I laugh so hard that I scare my dogs.

Did vic abuse her in public? I guess it depends on how you define abuse. In public he put on quite a show. He "fawned" over her, calling her Dottie. I doubt that he had even a sliver of the affection for her that he pretended in public to have. It was always about him...not her. He wanted to have this image of being a loving, caring, adoring, and doting husband, who put her on a pedistal. It was an act. Just one more con by the huckster vic. He was an extremely selfish man who always had to have the spotlight on himself. IMHO Dottie was abused in public by the sheer act of veepee's charade. He used her like a prop. She must have seen the hypocracy and felt used. Afterall, how can you feel like your on a pedistal when old vics out in the motorcoach with his young female "corps kids"? I suppose she kept up a front for him because she was a "dutiful" wife...whatever that is. Don't forget that vic was fired from his preaching job at the church (early on)...for his sexual exploits. This was no new revelation for Dorthea, she knew where she stood early on. I think she was sorta like Don Corleone's wife in the first Godfather movie. She lost herself in raising the children and keeping the house. Vic demanded that she keep her nose out of his business and be happy being the "first lady". Afterall, all the women in the kingdom belong to the king. Even as all of us, who kissed the ring of the "great man"...she also was abused in her own unique way.

Good luck Pj...I'm always glad to see someone stand up against those miscreants.

Funny as it may seem, the idea of resurrecting old waycorps recipes makes me want to barf.

Ok, I think I got it straight now. Because there was a lot of ice in outer space, Eve decided that she liked girls more than guys and she pulled the devils finger in order to illustrate the diabolical methods in which demons can smell up a room. Furthermore, the words spirit and wind are one and the same... indicating that to walk by the spirit is the same as farting into the wind. That would certainly explain the strange smell in the air at Emporia. This is all finally coming together for me.

veepee, lcm and geer all traveled together in a golden chariot straight through the center of the sun, protected only by their sunship rights.