GrouchoMarxJr

Way corps diploma...yeah, that really looks good on a resume...talk about a worthless piece of paper...

Robin Williams could play Walter Cummins. Martin Landau as Don Wierwille Kathy Bates as Rozilla Jeff Bridges as Del Duncan ...and I think we should consider William Shatner for the part of Bob M.

I paid $85 for it in 1975. shortly after that it jumped to $100...People were complaining, so Veepee got ....ed off and doubled it to $200...I recall him saying at the time, that there was no price you could put on it and that we just didn't "see it big enough"...he supposedly doubled the price to teach us a greater appreciation of the value of the class. Isn't it ironic that this class, which we deemed as being "priceless", actually turned out to be "worthless". As far as UH's involvement with twi, I am waiting for someone with more knowledge than me to weigh in on this issue...I know some of the oldtimers, who lived at hdqrts in the early 70's could tell us quite a bit...

Sudo...suddenly I'm listening to some song that sounds like a reject from Mary Poppins or something...ouch! My Saturday night...grilled porkchops and Corona beer...finished my feast and now I'm here ....hey, that rhymes!

I remember when Spiderman first made the scene in Marvel comics...I was a big fan from the get-go. Not only is the movie made so well (special effects)...but the story line is so extremely close to the original comic. Awesome!

Yeah...give me a hundred bucks to prove your committment...and after you have proven it, I'll keep the hundred!...and we used to tell people that twi didn't make money running classes! I guess we bought that one because WE didn't make any money running classes! Imagine that...an entire sales force that works for free! All ya gotta do is give em is a little blue pin and say "it's good to be home again"

Marlon Brando was a powerful actor. His earlier work was what gave him the reputation that he had. Streetcar named desire...The waterfront... He was really able to play these intense charecters...Apocolypse Now, Godfather...he had one of the most intense stares...he's the only guy I can think of that could have played Hannible Lectur as intensely as Anthony Hopkins did. R.I.P. to one of the greats.

I remember Uncle Harry used to say claim that he left the teachings up to Veepee and he took care of the business and the money. He always struck me as being sorta lecherous. I remember him "sharing" at some big fellowship meeting, where he spent 30 minutes telling everybody to cheat the IRS in any way that they could. Did UH buy into the MOG. thing? I mean did he really believe that his adulterous, bible thumping younger brother was the man of God in the whole world? Doubtful, in my opinion. Harry knew about the MOG myth and went along with it...afterall, it was good for "business". ;)-->

...Verily, I say unto thee, today will I build my casino...(where would YOU put the comma?) Lo shanta!

I also knew Harry...not all THAT well, but I knew him. If he indeed was as successful in the furniture business as they claimed, he certainly saw the potential AND the realization of his investment, as it grew quite considerably. I think he was very trusting of Vic and even if nothing was on paper, he figured it was all in "the family" and he could "dip" whenever he wanted to. I'm sure that Harry recognized a goldmine when he saw one...Veepee was running a damn twig in his house until Harry came along with the dough and his book keeping skills...I believe that the time of Harry's financial investment coincides with Veepee beginning to teach "tithing"...Previously, he had taught that Christians don't have to tithe...when the money came, the teaching curiously changed...Veepee ( and Harry) saw the need for a little revenue coming in to support their new "business". A lot of old timers split with Veepee when that happened. He then printed "Christians should be preposterous" and the rest is history. Was Harry in on the scam?...you betcha. ;)-->

TheEvan made a comment several pages back about when he used to be a "literalist" when he read the bible, but now he reads it more for inspiration, looking for the moral aspects. I agree. Way-think is still prevalent in people's minds when it comes to their understanding of the bible...not so much in doctrine perhaps, but in the "foundational assumptions" that they make concerning the book. Veepee crammed his "mathimatical exactness, scientific precision" concepts down everyones throats. "There's a purpose for everything God says, when He says it, how He says it, where He says it, to whom He says it,etc, etc, blah, blah, blah". The average wayfer ends up like the guy who bought a new car and spent all his time reading the owners manual...never got around to driving the car....bibliolatry? The bible was written over a looooong period of time by a lot of different people. There are some books of the bible that didn't quite make the KJV...others were tampered with...translation problems...deliberate forgeries...and who says that God told these writers the EXACT WORDS to use anyway?...Maybe some of em wrote it on their own...maybe others were told to write and never did...Maybe the Pauline epistles are no more valid than some letters sent out by twi's trunk Coordinator to his/her respective limb coordinators. Maybe God gave them "concepts" and then they put it into their "own words"...maybe this microscopic examination of every nuance of the book was never intended for us by God. If I remember correctly, the 1st century Christians didn't even have the new testament in written form...Jesus never wrote anything in the bible...and who were all these guys anyway? Perhaps the difference between the old testament God and the new testament God was that the writers of each testament lived hundreds of years apart from each other and the concept of God had "evolved" over the years. Maybe the "difference in God" doesn't even exist...maybe it's more of a difference in people...makes more sense to me. Maybe God is hitting His forehead like Homer Simpson and saying "Doh, that ain't what I told you to write!" Maybe it's all made up..maybe there is no God...but then again...maybe there is a God but nobody's ever called Him by the right name or understood "jack squat" about Him...A lot of maybes... I guess it boils down to a personal choice. Seeing we are all born as independant free-will moral agents, I suspect that God would deal with us individually. I am glad that I am knowledgeable of the bible but I don't approach God that way anymore.

Veepee was a master grifter...he often employed the method of "tranference by implication"...I just made that up Even as he described the charecteristics of an apostle, by using Paul as an example...he made damn sure that his "definition" included himself also. He never said outright that he was an apostle...he simply let you draw your own conclusion and then say it FOR him... Thanks to Bogey, we now see an example of this same method in reverse. He was already preparing the fertile minds of his minions for any future accusations against himself. If anyone dared to accuse him of sexual impropriety (which many did)...he would simply say..."see, they said the same thing about the apostle Paul!" He knew where his weaknesses were and he began covering his a$$ from the very beginning.

You move your lips, your mouth...blah, blah, blah,..."shanta kalamista..." IMHO, Veepee was to the holy spirit field, what Jeffery Dahmer was to gourmet dining. He took the information that he plagiarized and turned it into part of his "fast food" spiritual growth program. As far as the genuine Christian experience goes...twi "queered" the whole thing by making it some formulated, mechanical spewing forth of twi doctrinal diatribes.

Nameless...welcome to the Grease spot cafe. Jackmm offers some sound advice. If the relationship is only a couple of months old...I would strongly suggest that you pull the plug on it, slip out the back Jack, make a new plan Stan... Twi is an insideous little cult that robs people of their own opinions, their time, money, careers, homes, friends, families and a lot of other things that I can't even think of now. If you stay with this girl, you will absolutely be forced, eventually, to either join the cult or she will split with you... Twi is best described as a Christian organization without Christ. They deny his active role in Christian activity by declaring him "absent". The role that Christ traditionally plays within the church is filled by the president of twi, a rather presumptuous and unattractive former underling of the cults founder, Veepee wierwille. Twi has all the qualifications neccessary to consider it a cult. Believe me, I was involved for 13 years and have now been out for 17. Ask your girlfriend the followings questions: 1-Is it ok with you, if I NEVER get involved with twi in any capacity? 2-Would you consider trying out a different Christian church instead of twi? 3-Are you aware of what has been said by thousands of former members of twi? Perhaps using the Greasespot cafe as an example. Consider yourself fortunate, that you were bright enough to check out the web for "other opinions" on "The Way"...They may seem like really nice folks but I'll bet that the poison Koolaid that the cult followers of Jim Jones drank tasted really good too.

Mountain top checkbook...I almost forgot...does this mean that twi is now guilty of banking fraud too?

Negative growth rate?...sounds like one of those oxymorons that the government likes to use. Maybe it would be sufficient enough to say, that because he couldn't find his a$$ with both hands, the whole thing fell apart.

Happy birthday to my good natured, politically challenged friend...the Grizz! (*) grrrr! Hope ya had a good birthday...how old are ya now, 65?

Interesting story Galen...especially about how the corps could lie to the rank and file because they were'nt "real believers"...it was all part of that arrogant attitude started by veepee and carried on by king okie. Wierwille was all about recruitment...his most successful recruitment tools were his pfal class, the wow program and the rock of ages festival held yearly. Each fed off the other and reinforced Veeppe's whole concept of "welcome to wayworld". Interesting to note, that the bufoon, Martindale, dissolved all three of these recruitment tools, shortly after his reign of idiocy began. Lcm was handed a "thriving business" on a silver platter...all he had to do was keep the trains running on time...instead, he decided to disassemble the most successful programs that twi had...a real genius. ;)-->

I recall when there would be scheduled "word study" nights. A group would sit around and do "word studies"...it was the equivilancy of a 7th grade class learning to use an encylepedia for the first time. It was painfully booring in it's simplicity and was about as enlightening as a fart in an elevator. Any conclusions reached either lined up with twi doctrine or were considered wrong. Any dissent was considered to be "spiritually immature". For years I had an amazing nack of seeing nothing but twi doctrine when I read the bible...when it came to "research", I considered myself a neophyte when compared to the "spiritual heavies" of twi. I just went along...at least for awhile... When Martindale took over as president, I went through a personal change, in regards to my confidence in twi in general. When Veepee said something, I simply believed it but when lcm would talk...it just didn't "resonate" with me in a very credible way. I suddenly gained a greater confidence in my own ability to understand the bible on my own...and then one day I discovered that I simply disagreed with king okie and gave more credence to my own opinion than to his...that was a liberating experience...especially when I vocalized my dissent and indignantly walked away. That was 17 years ago. As I think back, I realize that twi had no business referring to themselves as a "research" anything. It was a fraud and a scam. I agree with the assessment that the research books were nothing more than props...it was nothing more than eyewash. Twi's "doctrine" was as entrenched as any denomination's, and when the fearless cult leader spoke...all "research" had better line up with he who speaks excathederal.

Hope R...that was the best explanation I've heard yet concerning twi's household verses family bs. Good Point Trefor...twi institutionilized mental bondage. What originally attracted me to twi was their "seeming" willingness to continue research and change if they were wrong about something. Supposedly they were open to imput from any and all "saints" concerning the doctrine of the bible...yeah right. It soon became apparent that the only thing bigger than their egos, was the institution of a rigid religious system that they were building. Whether you considered yourself in the household (aren't I cool)...or just a member of the family (I guess I'm just a putz), you were still part of and assimilated into the institution of mental bondage.

George...when you think about it, was it all that different from people who attended witch covens (twigs) and cast spells, expecting them to happen? "works for saint and sinner alike..." with that little phrase, the cornfield grifter sent everybody off on a tangent, seeking that elusive power that was within their own minds...of course when it didn't work...it was YOUR fault. What a catch 22, what a fireproof plan! We pay em money for the more abundant life, and when they fail to deliver the goods, they blame us...as they're counting the money in the back room. Believing equals receiving...IMPOSSIBLE! Not true, not even biblical, pure crap. How could we have been sooooooooo stupid!

During the year before I went into residence, the local leadership rode me mercilessly...they were "preparing me" to become corps. There was one nazi corps guy especially...that really got involved with me. He had the wonderful idea that I should haul my entire 150 album collection, of some of the finest music of the 60's and 70's, and toss them into the bon fire on Uncle Harry day. The limb leader concurred with him, thinking that it would help me in my quest to assimilate the doctrine of voluntary induction and of course, it would set a wonderful example to all the slackjawed waybrains, who would be in attendance. There were ooohs and aaahs, as I pushed the wheelbarrow full of vinyl towards their firey grave...I gritted my teeth with determination as I flung handful after handful of albums, like square pizzas, seperating from each other and finding a home in the inferno, which would cleanse them forever of the insideous demons that resided within...The limb leader and the corp guy both stood off to the side with knowing smiles...I had completed a rite of passage...I now was welcome into the hallways of the initiated ones...I had cut the ballast loose and was now free to soar with the spiritual wings of a sogwap! Yeah...I burned em all...scheesh, how stupid could I have been! Got talked into it...I should have thrown the nazi corps guy into the fire instead of my records.

Refiner...wait til you get to the part about "getting your needs and wants parallel". If you can figure out what the hell he's talkin' about, you'll be the first...ROFLMAO. other titles: "Christians should be preposterous" A handbook that is distributed freely to new recruits, explaining to them why it is important to give twi their money. "Christian sex within the family" A closer look at a woman's role in the context of living in the kings kingdom.

Waywardwayfer...interesting stuff... Lcm states "God loves all His children, but only His affectionate children are the ones He can protect" Whew!...chilling, mind numbing... When I grew up with my siblings, some of us were "affectionate" and some of us were not. My "earthly father" protected us all equally. I seem to recall Veepee ranting out something about "my earthly father did a better job than that..." This is the "not so subtle" doctrine that deviates from a powerful, loving, and able God, extending His mercy and grace...and replaces Him with a god that is limited in both ability and unconditional care. Martindale's god is not ABLE to protect him. He's willing, mind you, just not ABLE...so where does this "ABLE-NESS" reside? Apparently, the ability to be protected, resides within the human mind!...lcm calls it being "affectionate"...and of course, a closer examination of HOW to be "affectionate" (or how to activate the "ability to be protected") is to give twi your money and allow them to control your life...or as others might say...to be a "functioning member of the household". It seems that lcm pulled the old bait and switch...He advertises a loving God that is ready to pour His adundance on you, and then delivers a mean spirited, controlling hierarchy of manipulating extortionists, who bend you over.

What I feel deep inside is an unyielding determination to never again allow someone else to tell me what God wants for my life... ...and I've got plenty of beer in the cooler