GrouchoMarxJr

I remember back in 1977, we were all walking out of the large fellowship (limb meeting), and we were greeted by folks handing out flyers, depicting twi as a cult with some pretty damaging things about Wierwille on it...I took the thing back to my room and read it. Looking back, I understand the "mindset" of the cult member...they instantly eliminate any contrary information from their minds by dismissing it as being an "attack from the enemy". The harder you try to reach these people, the more convinced they become of their erroneous position. I recall actually using the flyer in one of my "teachings" at twig concerning not being ignorant of the devil's devices...scheeesh! --> It's a sad situation because the rank and file cult members are not bad people...in fact, there is something to be admired about someone who is willing to make a committment to what they believe in...they really do think they are right...hopefully, some of them will "wake up" before they find themselves broke and without a future. As for the "leaders" who continue to abuse them and give them the mushroom treatment...May they eventually choke on the very same horse...., that they have been feeding others for so long...

My time with Donna, was during the time period of 1978-80. At that time she was an arrogant, mean-spirited b*tch in her late twenties. She coveted after power...she explained to a bunch of us once that when she was "husband hunting", she had dated numerous top twi leaders, dropping names of 1st and 2nd corps guys. She said that when she got to craiggers, she knew he was the one, why? because she knew that he was going to "the top"...as she put it. She somehow knew that she was destined to be on the top rung of the twi ladder and she got herself there. It's almost like the story of MacBeth...ambition, power, money...she was willing to put up with lcm's adultery in order to maintain her position as "first lady of twi"...it was a simple tradeoff. Her disgust with her husband was only exceeded by her own lust for power and position. Today, she probably feels like she "earned" the right to live in the corps chalet for all the years of putting up with bozo. Of course, with her sexual orientation being in question, perhaps she is still "earning" her position as "first lady of twi"?

Maybe we could all pitch in and buy the place! We could call it camp Grease Spot...Turn the family commons into a bar with live bands...charge the locals admission...Paw and Sudo could do the cooking... Maybe we could get the Bush twins to perform...

I do recall an incident, while in residence at Emporia. LCM had just given a "pep talk" about giving it all you got and having the killer instinct...the flag football game began... LCM was in full stride, carrying the ball, when we caught up to him...I guess there was a halfhearted attempt to grab the flag, but it turned out that when LCM's legs went out from under him, there was a massive "pig pile", with several guys on top of ole craiggers, grinding him into the mud... :D--> When he got on his feet, he was outraged...the game was over and all flag football was banned for 2 weeks! That evening, at our "night owl", LCM proceeded to ream out the guys who had piled on him and chastise them for not showing respect to the "mog". He was all for being competitive until somebody beat him! I remember thinking to myself at the time..."*****".

Two days without a single account...Rats! I guess I'll make one up: Everyone was tense when the region coordinator, rev. chitlips, entered the room. His arrogant swagger and the curl on his lips, was making my blood boil. Everyone stood up as he entered...not me! I sat back in my chair and crossed my legs. As chitlips passed through the room, he stopped when he got to me. Leering at me with his beady, hatefilled eyes...he hissed at me..."get on your feet mister...NOW!" As I lit a cigarette, I smiled back at him and said..."sure thing". As I propelled myself out of the chair with my hands, the heal of my boot was on a trajectory course with the reverends face. He blinked once, just before the sickening sound of his teeth shattering. People shielding their faces instinctively, as his teeth splayed across the room. I barely remember what happened next...I seem to recall two guys grabbing me as my boots came down repeatedly on chitlips face... Am I getting carried away?

Maybe he should get as close to the property as possible, without going on it...then start pacing off sections of land, driving orange stakes into the ground periodically. After that, start taking pictures of the area of land that is staked off...from various angles. It will drive them nuts...

I have read these stories about how twi leaders have bullied, intimidated, and controlled the lives of many...I have heard the stories of broken lives, and of those who were trated so badly... Does anybody have a story about a twi leader being dragged outside and getting his a$$ kicked? I mean, with all the abuse doled out, isn't there at least one story about somebody saying, "enough is enough" and giving some limb coordinator a knuckle sandwich? A jealous husband who dragged rev. so and so out into the middle of the yard and put the boots to him? I'd love to hear a story like that!

I believe that it was about 1987 when LCM was confronted by a number of leaders concerning his adultery. R.D. was one of them and has stated so publicly. It was lcm's adultry (and others)...that triggered the Shoenheit paper, which in turn, triggered many leaders being fired and quitting. People left in droves and it was all triggered by the adultery that was going on. Chas...of course, they had their double standards. Afterall, they were the "special ones" in whom God spoke to and revealed great truth to them...dontcha know? All I did was stand up at a meeting and say that I disagreed with something that Martindale was teaching. The next frickin' day, I mean, the NEXT frickin' day...I was Marked and Avoided! People that I had known for years were told that I was possessed and to stay away from me. Of course at the time that I stood up at the meeting, I had already decided to quit...I had Marked and Avoided them first. What sounded like a nobel sentiment, "When it comes to the word, we have no friends"...turned out to be an excuse to hurt people. If you didn't jump through their hoops and kiss their wide arses, you were treated with disrespect, disregard and contempt. They trashed the lives of thousands of people...just because they could. Decades of faithful service was rewarded with a boot in the a$$ and a middle finger sticking in their face. Twi gained it's considerable assets because of the thousands of people that they welcomed in, with open arms...When those same people were betrayed and disposed of, the assets remained with the lowlifes. Today, the people in my life are genuine. My friends are REAL friends and I when it comes to my beliefs, I answer to no man. There is a lesson to be learned from our experiences with twi. The phoniness of their affection, care, and concern...only serves to underscore and illuminate the true value of those things when they are genuine. Twi helped me to develope a good bull.... meter...today, I can see these grifters coming a mile away.

Sorry dude...I hope the meds help with the pain...ouch!

Makes sense to me Grizz...those bastards were always looking out for number one and covering their a$$es. "...carnal minded, anal retentive, carpet eaters..." C'mon Chas, don't be so shy, tell us how you really feel. OK, let's spell this out...no hedging, no beatin' around the bush...no mincing of the words... That damn corps chalet was built with MY money!...I don't like her living there...I got nothing against her kids, but they gotta move too...the whole bunch of em...out on the damn street!...or better yet, like Chas said, there's a pig farm down the road. I'd love too see Donna M crawling through the pig ...., face first, snortin' as she tried to get the half rotted apple before the pig did...SoooooWeeeeee!

danteh1...I have suspected as much for a long time...I know others here have debunked any idea that LCM is still running things...but I wonder... Look at the circumstantial evidence: 1-If you know LCM well, then you know that he is adament about his role as MOG, in charge of twi. I don't suspect he walk away so easily. 2-His wife and children stay at hdqrts., living in the best place there.(instead of being booted with him). 3-LCM is living somewhere relatively close, in Ohio...doing what again? "Personal trainer"?...sounds like a "front" to me. 4-If LCM were REALLY leaving...wouldn't he have selected a replacement that is qualified as a leader? Someone who is charismatic, someone that people would follow? Someone of his own gender?...but if he was planning to keep running things from "behind the curtain", wouldn't he pick a figurehead, someone, perhaps who is an experienced administrator, who is not a challenge to his "leadership", who is loyal to him?...like Rosie? 5-LCM's books and classes are still front and center...When twi supposedly booted LCM, they had the perfect opprotunity to revive VPW's materials...nope, they kept everything the same (focused on LCM's materials) 6-I can't help but believe that if LCM were truly severed from twi, he would have started his own splinter group by now...what's stopping him? If you know LCM, he would never be content with being a "personal trainer" or to dispatch for UPS or whatever...he is obsessed with standing in the pulpit, pontificating to his followers. It seems more likely to me that he is still running twi from "behind the curtain" than, he has settled for a "mere job" like mortal men. Why he is not "leading his followers"...or is he? 7-Who remembers the MAL packs? When I was in residence at Emporia in the late 70's, We spent a great deal of time planning out "contingincy" plans in case we had to go "underground"...this included LCM and other top leaders. LCM had a "secret staff" prepared to go "underground" with him and run the ministry through an elaborate clandestine type system. Who really believes that LCM has absolutely no influence on twi today? Maybe he still is running the whole operation from where he is in hiding...maybe not. I know that I am not convinced that he is gone...too many loose ends, too many unanswered questions, too many contradictions. What do you think?

My old WOW brother...originally from North Carolina...lost track of him in Kansas...anybody know him or where he is???

I've heard people "dance" around the issue for quite awhile now, implying that maybe she should be asked to leave, etc....but as far as I know, nobody has really taken a firm stand on this issue. Now somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought there was a FIRM policy concerning married couples, when they spilt up. A dear friend of mine lost their corps status because their spouse had "copped out"...the spouse had left both the marriage and twi...the remaining spouse was told to pack their stuff and leave immediately...even though, their committment had not been compromised. I know of numerous cases like this...it's written right in the damn handbook..."If marriage splits up, you're both out of the corps". Not only that, but "you ain't welcome here no more, SCRAM!"...is the essence of what you are told. How come Donna is still there? Not only is she still there, but doesn't she live in the "corps chalet"?...living high on the hog...living off twi's nickle? Twi should tell her to pack her stuff and get off the property...pronto! I can still hear her self righteous, condescending tone...as she pontificated from her lofty perch down to us poor lowly sinners. Always holding everybody else to such a high standard...and then assaulting them verbally if they fell short...why the nerve of this loud mouthed b*tch...Now we see her true hypocracy, as she continues on...probably given some kind of special status and title..."Former first b*tch emeritus" or something... Donna...if you have any self respect, LEAVE...maybe you should go back to craiggers and "work things out", go through a probationary period, and then MAYBE you can start the corps training all over again...isn't that what you used to tell people?...and who knows, if you went back to your husband, maybe folks wouldn't wonder so much about your sexual orientation.

As Bob Dylan once said..."...and I'll stand on his grave til I'm sure that he's dead."

Congradulations Shelly! I left twi 17 years ago and for me, it's been an evolution of changing a little at a time...today there is very little (if any) waybrain left in me...I have learned the meaning of the phrase "purpose within myself" quite well. I choose who to give to and why...it's a great feeling when it happens from the heart and not a religious dogma. It takes awhile for all that "conditioning" to wear off...but rest assured, it does.

Garth...thanks for interjecting with your own brand of humor... Cynic...I didn't mean to offend... Sorry dude. I guess I was just thinking out loud. You guys can argue all night long about the bible if you want to...no problem here...and you are right, I should stay away from the theological debates rather than criticize those who involve themselves in them...I stand corrected.

Well, Kit...with all due respect to you...and all the others here who are clamoring to touch the hem of Mr. Lynns garment, don't let the door hit you in the arse, John. Drive by post indeed...he swooped in to see if he could save some of us poor bastards from ourselves, and then he swooped out again...what was the price of your foundational class again John? Gee, can I sign up tonight?...NOT! I hope I don't offend too many of you good folks here, but JAL is just another pfal grad like the rest of us former cult members...Because he's a little animated, you think he's got an inside to some special truth...good god! Haven't you had enough already? I'm sorry but if any more twi "celebrities" pass through the Cafe...tell em to just keep passing...the door swings both ways. Sell your class to somebody else Lynn, I'm already saved.

I doubt if Lynn will take the bait...he's not interested in theological debate as much as he is in recruiting a few of us "lost souls" here at GS. Besides, theological debates are both pointless and self indulging. Who cares? Does somebody get a star on their report card if they can show how their religious viewpoint is more valid than somebody elses? I suppose if being a bible "authority" is what decorates your cookies...then go for it. However, I seriously doubt that your theological debates will get you into heaven any faster. I would rather focus on how I live my life than how well I can argue my theology.

Wierwille was always showered with expensive gifts...cars, motorcyles, etc. I recall when we presented him with a Remington statue...one of those cowboy busts that cost PLENTY! We gave it to him at Emporia as a gift from the corps... For being such a "great servant", he really was waited on hand and foot and treated as royalty...and he ate it up with a spoon! When LCM took the reins, he could never seem to rise up the to level of "the great one"...he became consumed with jealousy. That is why I believe, that he ran off all the other top leaders from the first few corps...they were his peers and were not in awe of him like they were of Veepee. He tried to purge the ministry of all things that related to Veepee...his classes and books were replaced by LCM's...he chased away anybody who wouldn't bow down and kiss his signet ring (sign the loyalty oath)...he was consumed with being the MOG and wanted everyone to be in awe of him. It was really sad when you think about it. Wierwille handed this jerk the world on a silver platter...all he had to do was "keep the trains running on time"...instead, he dismantles the 3 main recruitment tools...pfal, the ROA, and the WOW program...brilliant! Then he alienates all the qualified "leadership" and oldtimers and runs them off. Twi then makes the complete metamorphis by changing from, what was originally "there's no strangers at the Way" ministry that focused on salvation, forgiveness and love...to a "ministry" of fear, loathing and manipulation, where "becoming a greasespot by midnight" would be the order for the day. What a moron!

I'm not sure why Lynn still insists on holding to the twi myth of "teaches the word as it hasn't been known since the first century" crap. John, if you're reading this, do you still believe in the "snow on the gas pumps" story too? Everything wierwille taught can be found in the writings of the men that wierwille stole from. Ever read Bullinger's "How to enjoy the bible"? It is almost EXACTLY like reading the pfal book...only difference was that Bullinger wrote it decades before wierwille did. All Veepee did was take, what he considered to be the best theology, from a half dozen or so Christian writers...put it together in a homogenous way and then stamp his own name on it, taking bows as the MOG. Whole sections of RTHST were lifted, word for word from "what's his name's" book. (name escapes me at the moment, but I'm sure somebody can name him pretty quick). Even if you say that wierwille putting together these different portions of theology from different writers, was God leading him to these things and teaching him to put it all together as he did...Why did wierwille take credit for someone elses work? It was dishonest and egotistical...Is that the heart that God selected to reveal this great truth too? To be our "teacher" and screw our women? wierwille was as phoney as a three dollar bill and JAL is not doing his own organization any favors by clinging to that old rotted vine. I would suggest, that if there are certain portions of twi doctrine that you still believe are true...then give credit to the men who ORIGINALLY committed it to book form. Present it as an evolution of theological discoveries by numerous Christian writers, and then maybe people would find it more digestable...rather than continuing the "myth of the man", who was, actually no more than a grifter with delusions of grandeur...

Walter was the heir apparent when I joined twi in 1975...but Walter lacked the charismatic personality and powerful teaching style. It soon became apparent to me that lcm was positioning himself for the job. Veepee loved lcm's arrogant and loud style...and YES, NOBODY kissed Veepee arse as much as old Loy did. He puckered up every chance he got. I remember it all very well...Although I was not privy to the conversations that took place amoung the top leaders, I am fairly certain that Veepee made the decision on his own...he was too egotistical to allow someone else to make the selection for him. I also believe that Veepee regretted his decision shortly after kingokie took over... It was martindale's complete obsession with "athletes of the spirit", I believe, that initially drove a wedge between Veepee and kingokie. Veepee was quoted as bitterly mumbling under his breath, that LCM was spending his whole first year as president dancing around in tights and ignoring the more important duties of his job. It was the AOS doctrine that craiggers used as a springboard to start rewritting twi doctrine and develope his own classes...his goal was to purge all memory of Veepee from twi and establish himself as the great one. Veepee went to his deathbed feeling neglected and ignored by martindale. I think Wierwille's selection of kingokie illustrates the extremely poor judgement that Veepee used to make his selection. Almost anybody else would have done a better job.

So, Lynn posts here and within 48 hours, there are 77 posts that follow. I sorta got the impression from reading his opening post, that he was sticking his head in here to get some more recruits...and he probably will. Others took it as an opprotunity to express some very strong opinions concerning Mr. Lynns current endeavors. Personally, I have no vendetta to discredit him or his organization. I feel sorry for those "waybrains" that still feel the need to live in the eyes of other people and the need to have their own belief system "filtered through" an institution which is designed to take the place of "the absent brain"...but, to each their own. It seems that Christian organizations become flawed the moment that they organize. As soon as they give themselves a name, a leader/leaders, and a non-profit tax exempt bank account...they become something "different" than the body of Christ as depicted in the bible. Maybe they function in harmony with the true body of Christ and maybe they don't...my only point is that they are a man made organization. I would encourage Christians to seperate the two in their own minds, for the sake of "spiritual clarification" and to avoid the misery that ensues when a man or an organization take the place of God in their lives. With all that said, I'm glad to see that the Grease Spot Cafe has made the impact that it has, with both twi and the various splinter groups. I'm sure they are all aware that there are a LOT of extwiers here who do not mind speaking their minds concerning their cult experiences.

From the first time I laid eyes on martindale, back in 1975, he was at the very least "auditioning", for the top spot in twi. He was a ranting lunatic, screaming, spitting, and bullying people at every opprotunity. As the "Director of the waycorps", he thought he HAD the top job already...the ONLY person he did not "speak down to" was Veepee himself. Going from director of the waycorps to prez only meant that he could now excercise control, directly, over the entire twi instead of just it's leaders. There were numerous folks vastly more qualified than kingokie was...loyboy got the job because veepee confused arrogance for confidence and bullying for leadership. Veepee also loved the way that loyboy kissed his arse too...nobody puckered up for Vic the way loyboy did. Add his screaming, ranting "teaching" style to the mix and it was almost predictible that Veepee was gonna crown the okie... I do think that JAL wanted the job and was probably ....ed when he didn't get it...I think he would have done a lot better job than lcm did, but then again, who wouldn't have done a better job?...There's this guy who got hit on the head with a crane hook (today they call him Slappy and shoot bullets at his feet to make him dance)...even HE would have done a better job at running twi than kingokie did...

As long as he follows the rules, he's welcome to post here. Because he was near the top in twi, he may have some in depth information that he would like to share with us...perhaps not. Knowing John as I do, I would suspect that he will be conducting himself here in a manner consistant with a Christian minister...(you can read into that all you'd like). ;)--> In the meantime, let me know if kingOkie sticks his head in here...doubtful, he doesn't have the kahunas to post at the GS.

...my money back.